Leather reed valve curled - can it be relaxed/straightened?

[AlicePalace]

I took a peek in my little Giulietti 26/48 today to give the bellows a little vinegar/alcohol wipe down (it’s a bit musty) and inspect whether there were any obvious reed issues. Happily there is no rust or anything, but I did find a leather valve in the bass that seems to be permanently curled. No matter which orientation I held it in, it still was curled (did not relax back into place). Can it be relaxed somehow? Does it matter? Could this be the reason for the occasional “raspberry” (pbththththt) noise I get when playing certain bass fundamental notes? Also, the leather was missing entirely on the highest treble note. Does it matter? The note seems to play just fine. Thanks for any advice you can give!

 

[Dingo40]

Hi Alice,
I'm sure you'll hear that in many cases the higher treble reeds are all left without the leather valves quite intentionally as they don't need them.
The curling of the leathers is an effect of ageing coupled with being stored for many years in a certain orientation.
The simplest fix would be to have a technician remove the valve leather and replace it with a new one : this should not be expensive.
If you can't access a technician, you could try to do it yourself : other members here, who do this kind of thing often, will advise you on technique.
There are members who recycle the old valves, after restraightening them. (I wonder if ironing them with a steam iron would do it?)
To assist with removing any odours, leave the accordion disassembled in a warm, dry space, free of pests.

 

[AlicePalace]

Hi Alice,
I'm sure you'll hear that in many cases the higher treble reeds are all left without the leather valves quite intentionally as they don't need them.
The curling of the leathers is an effect of ageing coupled with being stored for many years in a certain orientation.
The simplest fix would be to have a technician remove the valve leather and replace it with a new one : this should not be expensive.
If you can't access a technician, you could try to do it yourself : other members here, who do this kind of thing often, will advise you on technique.
There are members who recycle the old valves, after restraightening them. (I wonder if ironing them with a steam iron would do it?)
To assist with removing any odours, leave the accordion disassembled in a warm, dry space, free of pests.

Thanks for this info. Hopefully someone will chime in on a DIY solution, as I don’t know of anyone locally who repairs accordions. As for leaving it disassembled, I’m loathe to do that because I’m actively trying to learn to play and I was hoping to bring it to the jam session I go to every Thursday evening!

 

[AlicePalace]

Hi Alice,
I'm sure you'll hear that in many cases the higher treble reeds are all left without the leather valves quite intentionally as they don't need them.
The curling of the leathers is an effect of ageing coupled with being stored for many years in a certain orientation.
The simplest fix would be to have a technician remove the valve leather and replace it with a new one : this should not be expensive.
If you can't access a technician, you could try to do it yourself : other members here, who do this kind of thing often, will advise you on technique.
There are members who recycle the old valves, after restraightening them. (I wonder if ironing them with a steam iron would do it?)
To assist with removing any odours, leave the accordion disassembled in a warm, dry space, free of pests.

Also, the seller mentioned that the accordion had been found in an abandoned storage unit that his company had cleaned out. He said something about the stuff in the unit being there for 15 years! It’s no wonder the leather valve is curled like that — that’s the direction gravity would have pulled it (in the case, standing on its feet).

 

[Tom]

Hi Alice,

You can find good info on DIY accordion repair here including replacing the leathers:

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 1

Check out http://accordionrevival.com! AccordionRevival.com How to repair accordions, make accordion repair tools, find and repair air leaks, change leathers, wax reeds, voice reeds, level keyboards.

accordionrevival.com

As Dingo says, replacing the leather is best, but finding a replacement is not trivial.

In some cases you may be able to straighten the offending reed without removing it. You put a small diameter rod, like a q tip or pencil between the leather and reed, apply pressure outside and pull up, the resulting pressure straightening the reed. This is a temporary fix, but may help until you can replace the leather. Or, you can remove the leather, and roll it up in the "proper" direction, gluing it back with "tacky" glue.

Hard to explain, maybe someone will jump in with a better explanation. And, yes, this could cause the noise you mention.

Good luck!

 

[AlicePalace]

Hi Alice,

You can find good info on DIY accordion repair here including replacing the leathers:

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 1

Check out http://accordionrevival.com! AccordionRevival.com How to repair accordions, make accordion repair tools, find and repair air leaks, change leathers, wax reeds, voice reeds, level keyboards.

accordionrevival.com

As Dingo says, replacing the leather is best, but finding a replacement is not trivial.

In some cases you may be able to straighten the offending reed without removing it. You put a small diameter rod, like a q tip or pencil between the leather and reed, apply pressure outside and pull up, the resulting pressure straightening the reed. This is a temporary fix, but may help until you can replace the leather. Or, you can remove the leather, and roll it up in the "proper" direction, gluing it back with "tacky" glue.

Hard to explain, maybe someone will jump in with a better explanation. And, yes, this could cause the noise you mention.

Good luck!

Thank you for the link! I also dug up a 2017 discussion about this topic, complete with a “paper clip trick,” which I ended up trying. Straightening leather valves I failed to hold the glued end down and ended up pulling the leather off. Thankfully, the discussion I found talked about how to glue a valve on, and I happened to have appropriate glue on hand, so I’ve repaired it and will let it sit overnight before I see how my repair went. Oy vey.

 

[Dingo40]

Various members have suggested that valve leather may be straightened (after careful removal) by being rolled up in a reverse direction or by being pulled through a "slot" against the curl!
Although I haven't heard it suggested, I wonder whether ironing between some layers of newspaper using a domestic steam iron would be even more effective ?
Reattchment could be accomplished by glueing it back in place using a shellac based gasket goo (car parts shop) or French Polish (hardware store). Thicken the French Polish first by evaporating a couple of tablespoons down first, or making it thick using shellac and methylated spirits (hardware store).

 

[Gonk]

In my view, you don't want to heat up the leather with a steam iron. It will shrink and harden like "shrinky-dink" material.
Fabri-Tac has been suggested many times by Jim as an alternative valve adhesive and I find it does very well.
You can usually roll the leather and gently work it straight. Ventura has suggested a leather reconditioning salve to apply and leave overnight, as well - I haven't tried that, but I imagine it helps give the leather a bit of its original spring.
Personally, I just buy new leathers from 'Bossetto' on eBay. Sasha is great to work with and has good Italian valve leathers.
And in the future, if you need repairs, I'm in the Portland, ME area.

 

[debra]

From the picture I have the impression that the leather valve actually got stuck open by being caught under the weight on the reed on the opposing block. In that case it's not that something is wrong with this leather compared to the other leathers. It just needs to be straightened. You can remove it, curl it up, flatten it, perhaps use a "softener" used for leather seats, and then glue it back on (with Pattex or Bostik or a shoe glue).
However... From the pictures it looks like this row of leather valves should have had metal booster springs from the start but manufacturers skimp on this to save cost... The best solution would be to get a repairer to check out the valves, replace what is needed and add booster springs where needed. But as accordion repair is expensive (certainly compared to the value of this accordion), I would just straighten and reseat the valve and be done. You should check that as the valve opens it does not get stuck under the weight of that opposing reed though.

 

[AlicePalace]

In my view, you don't want to heat up the leather with a steam iron. It will shrink and harden like "shrinky-dink" material.
Fabri-Tac has been suggested many times by Jim as an alternative valve adhesive and I find it does very well.
You can usually roll the leather and gently work it straight. Ventura has suggested a leather reconditioning salve to apply and leave overnight, as well - I haven't tried that, but I imagine it helps give the leather a bit of its original spring.
Personally, I just buy new leathers from 'Bossetto' on eBay. Sasha is great to work with and has good Italian valve leathers.
And in the future, if you need repairs, I'm in the Portland, ME area.

My brother-in-law (Kevin J., builds and plays fiddle), who lives in Portland, ME, mentioned he knew a guy who worked on accordions. I bet that’s you! I will likely try doing the leathers myself, but I absolutely will reach out if I find I’m in over my head. For now, having straightened and re-glued the most egregious one, and having “finger flattened” a few others that were a little high (just lightly pressed my finger over them to warm them up and flatten them down), I think I may be good to go. Waiting for the family to wake up before I try it out, LOL.

 

[AlicePalace]

From the picture I have the impression that the leather valve actually got stuck open by being caught under the weight on the reed on the opposing block. In that case it's not that something is wrong with this leather compared to the other leathers. It just needs to be straightened. You can remove it, curl it up, flatten it, perhaps use a "softener" used for leather seats, and then glue it back on (with Pattex or Bostik or a shoe glue).
However... From the pictures it looks like this row of leather valves should have had metal booster springs from the start but manufacturers skimp on this to save cost... The best solution would be to get a repairer to check out the valves, replace what is needed and add booster springs where needed. But as accordion repair is expensive (certainly compared to the value of this accordion), I would just straighten and reseat the valve and be done. You should check that as the valve opens it does not get stuck under the weight of that opposing reed though.

Thank you. Yes, the picture makes it look like the leather is trapped, but it was not. Perhaps it was trapped when it was stored and that’s what caused the curl. At any rate, you’re right, I should monitor it to see if it happens again. All of the leathers are nice and supple, so I’m hoping some simple straightening will do the trick.

Question: Other than opening the box again to check if this leather gets trapped again, is there another way to see if it gets stuck when it opens?

 

[Tom]

Thank you. Yes, the picture makes it look like the leather is trapped, but it was not. Perhaps it was trapped when it was stored and that’s what caused the curl. At any rate, you’re right, I should monitor it to see if it happens again. All of the leathers are nice and supple, so I’m hoping some simple straightening will do the trick.

Question: Other than opening the box again to check if this leather gets trapped again, is there another way to see if it gets stuck when it opens?

No, you will not be able to see it. If it does become stuck you may be able to hear the noise you mentioned earlier, or experience an "off" sound from notes or chords which use that reed. Or experience a change in air (bellows) using that note. It will be a subtle difference to your beginner ear. If you don't experience it then, don't worry, be happy! At some point you may decide to restore (or have restored) the accordion which will likely entail replacing most leathers. Or you may upgrade to an accordion in better shape anyway. All depends if you get into playing it. Good luck!

 

[Gonk]

My brother-in-law (Kevin J., builds and plays fiddle), who lives in Portland, ME, mentioned he knew a guy who worked on accordions. I bet that’s you!

It sure is! I'm headed over to play tunes with Kevin and our Québécois group in a few minutes here. Small world indeed! I'll tell him we "met."

 

[debra]

Thank you. Yes, the picture makes it look like the leather is trapped, but it was not. Perhaps it was trapped when it was stored and that’s what caused the curl. At any rate, you’re right, I should monitor it to see if it happens again. All of the leathers are nice and supple, so I’m hoping some simple straightening will do the trick.

Question: Other than opening the box again to check if this leather gets trapped again, is there another way to see if it gets stuck when it opens?

No other way I'm afraid. The trouble with some problems on accordions is that you would need to see inside while playing to watch a problem reoccur. Unfortunately there is not a lot of "spare room" inside, so you cannot for instance put a gopro (or similar) camera inside to record what is happening. (If you are desperate you can remove remove bass blocks to place a camera to record the treble side, and vice versa... I have never needed to do that. You can often "hear something" when a problem occurs... but it takes a trained ear.

 

[colinm]

You can remove the treble section , tape a sheet of perspex over the free bellows end then with an assistant see what is happening when you close/open the bellows and press a button, vice versa for the treble valves, I have done it.
cm

 

[debra]

You can remove the treble section , tape a sheet of perspex over the free bellows end then with an assistant see what is happening when you close/open the bellows and press a button, vice versa for the treble valves, I have done it.
cm

What a great idea! I should try that on my bass accordion which has an annoying fluttering valve somewhere (hopefully on the outside of the reed block because otherwise I still won't be able to see it...).

 

[AlicePalace]

What a great idea! I should try that on my bass accordion which has an annoying fluttering valve somewhere (hopefully on the outside of the reed block because otherwise I still won't be able to see it...).

What does a fluttering valve sound like? Does it sound like a “raspberry” (pbththththth)?

 

[AlicePalace]

You can remove the treble section , tape a sheet of perspex over the free bellows end then with an assistant see what is happening when you close/open the bellows and press a button, vice versa for the treble valves, I have done it.
cm

I can’t envision this in my mind’s eye. If I remove the treble section and then cover the free (treble) end of the bellows, I would not be able to see the bass section. I must be misinterpreting what you’ve suggested. Would you be able to explain to me how I could see the bass section? Sorry, I’m sure these are all very fundamental questions. TIA

 

[Ventura]

you would see the bass section reedblocks, the outer leather reed valves,
half the reeds (bare), the shift mechanism internal where it slides next to the blocks
the air release valve hole

just in case (it is an old word) persepex
is a synonym more or less for plexiglass / lexan

so one could somewhat move /pressure up/ the bellows,
watch the actions of some leathers while a reed sounds
and get clues as to causes of odd noise problems, etc.
even to the inclusion of (for example) noticing the biggest valve leathers
touch (or almost touch) the bellows folds and wonder if that could be
improved upon

it is rather a brilliant idea, and lexan is not difficult to work with..
you an score it and snap it and sand sharp edges round, drill it
with slow, gentle pressure

i once made a lexan cover for the bass side of a Dallape i was refurbing
so that the club members who had never seen or studied an accordion
bass section could watch a Stradella mechanism
designed and built in Stradella
in action

 

[AlicePalace]

you would see the bass section reedblocks, the outer leather reed valves,
half the reeds (bare), the shift mechanism internal where it slides next to the blocks
the air release valve hole

just in case (it is an old word) persepex
is a synonym more or less for plexiglass / lexan

so one could somewhat move /pressure up/ the bellows,
watch the actions of some leathers while a reed sounds
and get clues as to causes of odd noise problems, etc.
even to the inclusion of (for example) noticing the biggest valve leathers
touch (or almost touch) the bellows folds and wonder if that could be
improved upon

it is rather a brilliant idea, and lexan is not difficult to work with..
you an score it and snap it and sand sharp edges round, drill it
with slow, gentle pressure

i once made a lexan cover for the bass side of a Dallape i was refurbing
so that the club members who had never seen or studied an accordion
bass section could watch a Stradella mechanism
designed and built in Stradella
in action

Ohhhhhh! The cover is see-through! So you basically replace the treble side with a little window that lets you peek at what’s happening. That sounds like a great idea. Any guidance where to get the persepex/plexi/lexan? I imagine you could get it at one of the large home improvement stores, yes?