Left hand register necessary? A PIGINI Ellegaard Special

[Acon]

Hello everybody, my name is Acon Cheng and I live in Australia. I use
a C-system chromatic button accordion PIGINI B43 convertor model.

Now I have a chance to buy a PIGINI Ellegaard Special convertor from
someone owns it. Has anyone familiar with this series? It’s specially
made to pay the tribute to Mogens Ellegaard, who made great contribution
to the modern accordion design and education.

There are several different ES models there and this one I want to buy is
a full range model with 4 reeds/2 cassotos/hand-made reeds on the right
hand side. The only thing concerns me is that there’s no register on the
left hand side (only the convertor switch).

The seller told me it’s lack of register is to produce stronger bass like the
Jupiter brand from Russia. Don’t know if this is true, but I did saw some
Russian masters playing their B-system Jupiter bayans, and those instrument
dont have any left hand register.

So I want to know are those registers on the left side important (for the
free bass)?

Ive attached some photos of this PIGINI Ellegaard Special accordion. The
seller said its 15kg and made in 2007, and he said its one of the only six
same models in the world.

These pictures are interesting because Ive saw some videos about the ES
series and they dont have the PIGINI logo on the instrument:
Ellegaard Special 55/B

The one in the video is 25 years old. After gathering some information
about this series I found this German link:
www.pigini.homepage.t-online.de

Google translated the description as below:
PIGINI ELLEGAARD special models were named after the Danish accordion virtuoso Mogens Ellegaard and educators. Ellegaard had a significant contribution to the development of PIGINI Convertormechanik and at that time also get the first PIGINI SIRIUS model. The PIGINI ELLEGAARD special models were produced as a piano and button Convertorakkordeons in the years from about 1970 to 1985. The company name PIGINI is not to be found on these models, but ELLEGAARD special and the model name. The owners of these accordions appreciate the very full and rich bass sound with a very broad base, the one et al achieved through a design with angular bass sound post. The modern lightweight construction at the time was not yet at the present level, so the musicians have to take on these models a significantly higher weight than comparable PIGINI instruments of the current model series in buying.

According to the translation the ES series is old and they are heavier than
normal modern PIGINI correspondents. But the one I want to buy looks more
modern. This also confuse me because the old one in the video has many left
registers but this one doesnt!

Hope someone can give me some ideas about these question.
Thanks.

 

[JerryPH]

So I want to know are those registers on the left side important (for the
free bass?

I am not an expert and I dont know much about this model, but registers, or lack of them, especially on the left hand generally is not an accepted method to increase sound quality, it is more often a cost saving feature.

Registers are registers, they have nothing to do with the quality of the reeds or sound, all they do is offer the potential to change the sound. In the case of the Free Bass, they neither add nor take away the quality of the sound, but they can add to the quality of the experience by offering more sound variations.

Registers on the Free Bass side do not change the sound like on regular Stradella bass, meaning, that the Free Bass are more often played using one set of reeds at once, and mostly all the registers do is change the octave of the sound. Because of the 5 octave range here, registers are less important, at least for me. This is an opinion, not fact. Each person defines themselves what is best for them.

Are they important? Well, it would depend on what you want to play or what you need that decides how important they are. One generally chooses an instrument based on needs. For some it is not important, for others, anything less than 7 registers (likely of which only 3 will affect the Free Bass), will do.

Generally speaking, I mostly played Free Bass with the registers in master but changed registers more often when playing on the Stradella for different effects.

 

[debra]

A typical Bayan has 16+16 on the left hand side. (Thus LL.) An Italian style convertor instrument has 16+8 (LM) and then it makes sense to have a register for 16, for 8 and for 16+8. Because the Bayan plays 16+16 it has a strong deep bass. Some bayans do have registers but these only have effect on the stradella (standard) bass.

 

[Russ]

my Pigini 37/B3, just like your 42B has 3 registers for the free bass 1. A Single low reed 2. A single low reed one octave higher (16+8) and 3. a combination of these two reeds played together. The Stradella set up also has a number of reed combinations. Although they both have 3 reeds on the treble side, your 42B, of course, has a much greater range.

Since you have been playing the 42B (I am envious) and have worked with these bass switches, Is having no switches on the bass side is worth it to you? For my own self I like having these options, and for that reason, plus the added weight, I personally would not buy it. I would wait until I found an accordion that had all the options I wanted: 4 reed treble and all bass options. this is just me.

However, having just read Debras post as I write this, you might want that huge 16+16 sound.

Good luck.

 

[Acon]

Thank you guys. Glad to learn something from your comments.

My accordion is B43, not 42/B. It's a much simpler model with 3 octave left reeds but no register,
and two reeds (MM) for the right. So I don't know how the left registers work, and every time I play
the Stradella bass it's loud (all 3 reeds sing at the same time), but free bass is ok since it's only one
16 reed's sound.

I think debra may be right and this kind of design (16+16 with no register) is a typical bayan style.
See the picture here. That's a PIGINI Mythos, the legendary instrument firstly made for Friedrich Lips
and Mogens Ellegaard. Mythos combined the Italian mechanics and handcraft with Russian reeds. There
are only about 30 Mythos in the world and it's the Rolls-Royce in the accordion world. It has no left
hand register as well.

The player in the picture is my friend Vincent Tsai, a professional accordionist and teacher from
my homeland Taiwan.

Best,
Acon

 

[debra]

Strangely enough, the page http://www.pigini.homepage.t-online.de/PIGINI_MYTHOS.htm claims that the Mythos is 16+16+4 and has 5 registers on the lefthand side (plus convertor). So now we are confused whether the Mythos does or does not have these registers. I would guess that to be the mythical instrument it should be it needs to have 16+16+4 and therefore also needs to have registers. A traditional bayan only has 16+16 and therefore does not really need registers and can be made of a bit lower weight.
By now the russians have also improved the mechanics a lot so I doubt whether to get the best Russian sound and good mechanics you still need to put Russian reeds in an Italian accordion.

 

[Acon]

debra,

I think you are right. I checked another photo of my friend playing the Mythos:
http://www.vincentaccordion.net/uploads/2/6/4/8/26487479/2494650_orig.jpg

There are 5 registers on the inner side of the converter switch! Cant see them
in the first photo.

The information and picture that Mythos doesnt have left register was provided
by my friend himself, but I think he just didnt notice their existence when playing
it. (This Mythos doesnt belong to him. He was just enjoying the chance to use it)

Sorry for that wrong information.

 

[JerryPH]

All pictures of a Mythos that I could find have registers on the left hand. He was obviously just looking at it... the Mythos in the pic doesn't even have shoulder straps, a somewhat not good thing to do, playing with a Mythos without a secure way of holding it... imagine if it fell or slipped off his leg from that angle he was holding it? :shock:

 

[Glenn]

Looks like a beautiful instrument. Just buy it

 

[tonyg]

Acon,

All the discussion of registration is overstated. The Pigini Ellegaard Special is an exceedingly fine instrument and if you really want to play that converter system you should just buy it.

Good luck!

tonyg

 

[JerryPH]

Looks like a beautiful instrument. Just buy it

If you tried it, like it and can afford it... I agree, just buy it.

 

[Acon]

I don't have the chance to try it because the seller lives in US and I live in Australia.
Feel a little bit risky so I decide not to buy it now.

But anyway thank you guys for your knowledge. I am now hoping I can get a C-system
bayan because Russian reeds sound better in Classical music.

 

[Glenn]

Can I be indelicate and ask how much was being asked for the Pigini?

 

[Acon]

The seller offered a price around USD$6,000.

 

[debra]

I dont have the chance to try it because the seller lives in US and I live in Australia.
Feel a little bit risky so I decide not to buy it now.

But anyway thank you guys for your knowledge. I am now hoping I can get a C-system
bayan because Russian reeds sound better in Classical music.

The sound of an accordion is mostly determined by the construction of the instrument.
Sure the choice of reeds does influence the sound, but a Pigini with russian reeds will still sound more like a Pigini than like a russian bayan.
A very nice illustration is which is a Dutch TV program (speech is in English) with music from the Mythos duo, playing two Pigini Mythos accordions. Sounds much more like a Pigini than like a bayan to my ears. It is a very nice Pigini sound, but especially the keyboard side sounds very much Pigini-like.
My advice is that if you want a genuine bayan sound, buy a Russian bayan. You wont be able to try that either but getting it to Australia should not be much more difficult than getting it shipped to anywhere else.

 

[Acon]

debra,

Thanks for your comment and advise. I don't know too much about this but I'm sorry that I can't agree with your opinion. To my knowledge the sound quality is mainly determined by the reeds, not the construction. Russian reeds use different material and craft than Italian reeds. They are all fixed in a metal plate, not glued by the beeswax like the Italian ones. That's why Russian bayans sound differently from Italian accordion.

Of course you still can be right, but the sound of the Mythos (or any accordion) is affected by many factors, including the recording device and the environment. I can't be sure what the Mythos Duo's recording sound like (though sounds good anyway ). I have some Friedrich Lips's recordings. Not sure if he use the Mythos to perform but sound very Russian.

 

[Glenn]

Excellent performance by these two guys. Thanks for sharing Paul.

 

[debra]

...To my knowledge the sound quality is mainly determined by the reeds, not the construction. Russian reeds use different material and craft than Italian reeds. They are all fixed in a metal plate, not glued by the beeswax like the Italian ones. Thats why Russian bayans sound differently from Italian accordion...

Actually, I have a Pigini basson which uses large reed plates with 6 notes for the lower 3 octaves. These reed plates are clamped onto the reed block (with screw-in hooks) with a thin leather seal between the plate and the wood. The higher notes are traditional Italian single-note reed plates held in place with wax. When playing a (chromatic or other) scale towards the higher notes I can absolutely not hear where the large reed plates (on leather seal) end and where the small reed plates with wax start.
Similarly the Hohner Morino N and S series use different reeds: Bugari tipo a mano reeds on the N series and Cagnoni tipo a mano reeds on the S series. Only when I place an N and an S next to each other can I hear a very small difference.
Again similarly I have worked on and had a small band using all Bugari 285/ARS instruments (and later some other, also artist cassotto). During the time frame these 285 instruments were bought I saw three different brands of reeds being used. All these instruments sounded exactly the same.

 

[debra]

... I have some Friedrich Lipss recordings. Not sure if he use the Mythos to perform but sound very Russian.

YouTube has a number of videos of Friedrich Lips. In most of these videos he is playing a Jupiter bayan. When you see him play an instrument with black and white registers (keyboard side) its the Jupiter. Some videos: for instance show him using a different accordion. You will notice that it is an accordion with only 5 rows of keys on the bass side. It is not a standard Mythos because that has 6 bass rows. Whichever instrument that is, it does not sound Russian. From the sound (in YouTube quality) I would guess its Pigini.

 

[Acon]

debra,

Your observation makes sense. I've heard that some high-end PIGINI models (Sirius or something, not sure) use the design you mentioned. They said the lower reeds was fix on a plate to create richer bass, and the rest of reeds was wax-glued in a traditional way. It must be unacceptable if the fixation methods make different sounds in a same instrument.

So you are a professional accordionist? Cool!

You mentioned PIGINI basson, is that an accordion model name? Or...a real basson?

Thanks for your sharing. Cheers.