Maintaining a Repertoire

[Valski]

I'm interested in your review if you do wind up buying it.

My confidence is not very high that any software could do an accurate-enough job of recognizing scanned notation that would make it worth the effort involved in dealing with it. You could wind up having to do so much manual tweaking that you would have been better off just getting a cheap MIDI keyboard and putting it all in by hand in the first place. (It's actually a fairly quick process once you get the hang of it.)

But it's possible the state-of-the-art has progressed more than I'm giving it credit for. For longer pieces at least, it sure could be a time-saver if it works. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Thanks Jeff, your scores look awesome. The software that I have been eyeing is Scanscore and the scanning feature is prominently promoted so my hopes are high. The version that I have in mind is for a single instrument and is supposed to work with a flatbed and even a cellphone camera. Previously the only option was to go full out and purchase scoring software but no one could tell me how well it worked if at all. The issue was that no one could tell me anything with assurance that the function actually works.

Presently I'm too busy to pursue this but expect to try it in the next months.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Jeff, your scores look awesome. The software that I have been eyeing is Scanscore and the scanning feature is prominently promoted so my hopes are high. The version that I have in mind is for a single instrument and is supposed to work with a flatbed and even a cellphone camera. Previously the only option was to go full out and purchase scoring software but no one could tell me how well it worked if at all. The issue was that no one could tell me anything with assurance that the function actually works.

Presently I'm too busy to pursue this but expect to try it in the next months.

Hi Valski,

Make sure to get the free trial before you buy. I tried scanning with scoring software a while back and found it just as easy to go with abc notation, using templates I've saved. A caveat being that most of my tunes are 1 or 2 page lead sheet versions.

Good luck!

 

[Waldo]

Lots of interesting and useful stuff here. Unfortunately for me, much relies on the ability to read sheet music at some level of proficiency. As mentioned at the start of this thread, I do use the dots to sus out keys and some passages I don't have correctly in my memory. Much time can be spent on poking thru a score. I am working on relating a specific dots location on the staff to the correct button/finger on the keyboard, but it's mostly just another complication (at my level).
I did come up with a kind of personal solution. I mount my cell phone on a short mic stand and aim the camera at my keyboard while learning/practicing, and thus have a referable record of my fingering patterns. I find remembering the fingering is half my problem when recalling past tunes, and much time is wasted refiguring it out. A (relatively) quick reference to the vid recording sets me straight (when I can find it). My plan is to transfer these vids to my computer for quicker reference and a larger screen, as I find c-phone screens just too small.
Following JJ's recommendation Re: the boxes is a useful tool, as well.
I have also been using "cheat sheets?" [the lyrics with chord notation above], and find them useful when initially learning a tune. "Listening" to the words prompts the chord changes and I quickly incorporate said changes into the flow of the tune. Obviously, not the best way to go, but quite helpful initially. Moving on to individual notes, after learning the chord progression is much easier 'cuz the tune is there (in my brain).
I have kind of decided to forgo new tunes in favor of getting what I know down pat, and cleaning up the stuff I think I know, but don't really. Also, moving back to simpler stuff when I want something new to combat boredom. I push my limits way too often and would be better off with easier stuff, until I improve my technique.
Something I intend to do with my new diatonic, is to focus on learning fills and augmentations, over complete tunes, letting the guitar/piano/vocals (whatever) carry the tune, and just provide color. This is the technique that attracted me to the accordion in the first place.

Thank you all for the input,

Press on...
Waldo

 

[Dingo40]

Waldo,
"... I find remembering the fingering is half my problem when recalling past tunes, and much time is wasted refiguring it out. .."
Frankly, learning the dots at some level is worth it.
You can then notate your sheet music with your fingering.
Once satisfied with it, you can then practice it with consistency and save yourself much time and frustration.??

 

[Valski]

Hi Valski,

Make sure to get the free trial before you buy. I tried scanning with scoring software a while back and found it just as easy to go with abc notation, using templates I've saved. A caveat being that most of my tunes are 1 or 2 page lead sheet versions.

Good luck!

Yes, I've been down that rat hole before and they do offer a free trial.

 

[olivigus]

One interesting technique is the "Leitner system". Basically, you put the names of pieces from your repertoire on separate index cards (or Post-It notes, or I guess you could use a spreadsheet, etc.) You then organize them into some number of different boxes (or stacks, or whatever) based on how well you can play them now. The "terrible" ones you work on every practice session, the "solid" ones you only dredge up every now and then, and the ones in the middle you work on at some frequency in-between. You could also have a box for brand-new material that you're still initially learning.

@JeffJetton I really liked this idea (because who doesn't want an excuse to acquire another box and organize things!), and am finding it really helpful. I got nice wooden file box that's divided into 5 sections and some colored cards. I'm using the colors to group types of music--e.g., green for German tunes, yellow for Italian, pink for French, etc.--and I used the alphabetizing tabs that came with the box to designate the 5 sections with A = the "A-list" of music I have memorized and am playing well enough to trot out for others; R = refining, for the songs I play well with the sheet music, but need to memorize and polish enough for performance; L = learning, for songs I am actively working on learning (I'm trying to keep that stack small enough to make meaningful progress, so they can move into the R slot); N = new, for songs I want to learn soon and was able to find sheet music or a tutorial for (the idea being to move one of those cards into Learning mode when one of the Learning cards achieves R-status); and the very last slot is labeled with F=future, for all the songs I would love to learn one day. I probably sound like an organizational geek, but it's giving me a concrete way to measure progress and make more conscious decisions about what I'm spending my practice time on. Thanks a lot for that tip!

 

[Mike K]

Major problem for me. Actually the repertoire is hundreds possibly thousands of songs....maybe more on accordion, piano and keyboard. SO even the same song is played differently. The keyboard has performance mode that allows multiple instruments with arpegios probably similar to Roland V accordions. So here I can be my own little band, Sax on right hand, maybe organ chords on left, bass pattern based off the chords and percussion. But may play the same song again differently using other sounds. I have so many notes written all over my music with different settings, hard to figure what I am doing. Made copies of it all so I do not completely mess up originals. Also works great for putting stuff in order to play a job. I strictly play with music. My brain is too crammed full to remember everything without help. Oh and then there is the times you play with a band....have quit doing that since covid though.

 

[Mike K]

For what its worth, I've found that my repertoire and practice has been revolutionised by getting rid off all the scrappy bits of sheet music and just getting a cheap tablet and page turner pedal, organising it into setlists. For me these are Freebass, Stradella Bass, Songs and Woodshed - the latter for things I am learning before they go into a setlist. I was always suspicious of tablets but have really found its removed all the distraction of bits of paper falling off music stands and getting lost in a big pile of junk. It also means I have all my music with me and can annotate it and de-annontate as I go along.

Tried that but I cannot read the print on a tablet....have trouble reading it on copies of music sometimes.

 

[Mike K]

In case anyone's interested, here are a few shots of one of my gig books (making sure to only show public domain music, of course). Most tunes are one page, and if I have a two-pager I make sure it's on facing pages, so no page turns are needed.

I suppose I could join the 21st century and put these on my iPad. But that would make everything smaller, and I guess I would need a foot pedal for the two-pagers.

Although there are a few pages in the book that are just photocopies of existing sheet music, most are like this--scores I notated myself in MuseScore. I think the first one is from some two-part Zither music I found somewhere, where the parts were originally on separate staffs. The other two are transcriptions from recordings, so there wasn't any sheet music to scan even if I wanted to!

I do similar but if I have 3,4,5 page songs I tape them together. I use a piece of masonite cut to fit on my stand so I can lay the music out. I was used to a LONG music stand on a piano, so I just did the same for the accordion. works great for me. until I get to the 6 page songs.

 

[losthobos]

If you need a sheet you shouldn't be out playing live...
Which probably explains why I'm home struggling to remember the last half dozen songs that tickled my fancy...
However a while ago I realized that my hero's only recorded their greats while they were hip and moved on to the next thing the next week...each man was a master of their own interpretation .
Be hip to yourself....

 

[saundersbp]

One thing I've found consistently with a large number of "top" accordion performers, they can't sight read very well and music is learnt parrot fashion. Quite a contrast with other instrumentalists.....

 

[Valski]

Major problem for me. Actually the repertoire is hundreds possibly thousands of songs....maybe more on accordion, piano and keyboard. SO even the same song is played differently. The keyboard has performance mode that allows multiple instruments with arpegios probably similar to Roland V accordions. So here I can be my own little band, Sax on right hand, maybe organ chords on left, bass pattern based off the chords and percussion. But may play the same song again differently using other sounds. I have so many notes written all over my music with different settings, hard to figure what I am doing. Made copies of it all so I do not completely mess up originals. Also works great for putting stuff in order to play a job. I strictly play with music. My brain is too crammed full to remember everything without help. Oh and then there is the times you play with a band....have quit doing that since covid though.

I also have a large repertoire which would be difficult to remember. For this reason I create set lists for different performances, sometimes the set list is printed out and other times I use the electronic version. Although it's possible to play a long list of songs by memory, an actual music chart will remind me of the key and details of each song. It's not required to stare at the page, however it adds to my performance by keeping me true to the piece.

I've been playing some songs for many years and know them by heart but to keep myself sane, like to add or delete some of them as circumstances dictate. Yes, some people play an entire performance from memory but it's because they don't change their repertoire very often.

Many people will disagree but we're all individuals and have to use whichever tools are available without worrying what another player thinks.

 

[Ffingers]

One thing I've found consistently with a large number of "top" accordion performers, they can't sight read very well and music is learnt parrot fashion. Quite a contrast with other instrumentalists.....

There are plenty of highly competent visually impaired actors and musicians who also have difficulties 'sight' reading.
Likewise, what Opera performer, stage actor, heart surgeon etc. etc. goes into action with a cheat-sheet?

 

[Monty [IIIII]]

I cannot read the print on a tablet.. of

I too have trouble reading sheet music, particularly some of the collections of folk tunes that have been printed in tiny books for carrying in a "fiddle" case. I used to enlarge everything with a photo copier and print out in notebook form. However, the music circles I attended were averse to sheet music and certainly didn't want to see music stands big enough for a notebook. Some of us cheated with a small book of common tunes kept discretely on the side. But this was limited by the tiny print and the darkened rooms (pubs & bars) where sessions usually occur.

The tablet offers a great solution to this problem. I scan and print the music in PDF files. My tablet (8"by 5" or 22x 14 cm) will display each tune in large enough format to see the entire thing at a distance, in the dark. I can enlarge or shrink the music to fit the device simply with my fingers on the screen. If a piece of music doesn't fit the screen, it can be "cut and pasted" into shorter lines -- with paper or with music transcribing programs. The tablet can be attached to a small tripod or propped up in a music case if music stands are not available. While I don't perform, I can imagine this would enable musicians to keep a set list and important tunes close at hand to refresh their memory, thus expanding the repertoire beyond what one can easily carry around in the brain. .

Of course, this method is of limited utility with complicated scores that don't lend themselves to being chopped up and fit onto a small screen. But if one is playing at home or in a private session, this problem can be addressed with a large, flat screen TV. And if that doesn't display an entire page of music, there are computer programs that will scroll through the music at whatever speed is necessary.
Or pages can be turned with a foot pedal or even a blowing tube if you don't have the use of your feet.

In short, with readily available technology, a person who is nearly blind can read sheet music and carry entire filing cabinets full of scores on a tiny SD card. Digitizing it all and mastering the technology may be more than some musicians care to do. However, an increasing amount of sheet music is available in digital form, for free or purchase. Anyhow, everyone has their own approach to problem solving, but this is how I see it.

 

[Mike K]

If you need a sheet you shouldn't be out playing live...
Which probably explains why I'm home struggling to remember the last half dozen songs that tickled my fancy...
However a while ago I realized that my hero's only recorded their greats while they were hip and moved on to the next thing the next week...each man was a master of their own interpretation .
Be hip to yourself....

Totally disagree with you. I would rather play songs right with sheet music than play them wrong or limit myself to just a few songs.

 

[Mike K]

I too have trouble reading sheet music, particularly some of the collections of folk tunes that have been printed in tiny books for carrying in a "fiddle" case. I used to enlarge everything with a photo copier and print out in notebook form. However, the music circles I attended were averse to sheet music and certainly didn't want to see music stands big enough for a notebook. Some of us cheated with a small book of common tunes kept discretely on the side. But this was limited by the tiny print and the darkened rooms (pubs & bars) where sessions usually occur.

The tablet offers a great solution to this problem. I scan and print the music in PDF files. My tablet (8"by 5" or 22x 14 cm) will display each tune in large enough format to see the entire thing at a distance, in the dark. I can enlarge or shrink the music to fit the device simply with my fingers on the screen. If a piece of music doesn't fit the screen, it can be "cut and pasted" into shorter lines -- with paper or with music transcribing programs. The tablet can be attached to a small tripod or propped up in a music case if music stands are not available. While I don't perform, I can imagine this would enable musicians to keep a set list and important tunes close at hand to refresh their memory, thus expanding the repertoire beyond what one can easily carry around in the brain. .

Of course, this method is of limited utility with complicated scores that don't lend themselves to being chopped up and fit onto a small screen. But if one is playing at home or in a private session, this problem can be addressed with a large, flat screen TV. And if that doesn't display an entire page of music, there are computer programs that will scroll through the music at whatever speed is necessary.
Or pages can be turned with a foot pedal or even a blowing tube if you don't have the use of your feet.

In short, with readily available technology, a person who is nearly blind can read sheet music and carry entire filing cabinets full of scores on a tiny SD card. Digitizing it all and mastering the technology may be more than some musicians care to do. However, an increasing amount of sheet music is available in digital form, for free or purchase. Anyhow, everyone has their own approach to problem solving, but this is how I see it.

A lot of guitar players and singers use it, attach it to microphone stands but they typically only have chords and lyrics, not full sheet music. I bought a cheap tablet to try it but never pursued it that hard.

 

[Dingo40]

Well, all is as it should be: we've all come up with a system that suits us. Great!??

 

[Pipemajor]

There are plenty of highly competent visually impaired actors and musicians who also have difficulties 'sight' reading.
Likewise, what Opera performer, stage actor, heart surgeon etc. etc. goes into action with a cheat-sheet?

Yes but the orchestra backing up the performer will usually play to a score. As will the orchestra conductor who is leading them

 

[Ffingers]

Yes but the orchestra backing up the performer will usually play to a score. As will the orchestra conductor who is leading them

True, to an extent - but actually watch conductors of any standing and you will notice that they rarely, actually refer to the scores in front of them.
In any case, I was expressing an opinion/observation on "..."top" accordion performers, they can't sight read very well and music is learnt parrot fashion." which is a long stretch by any measure: The "parrot fashion" slur especially.
Tell me that this is "parrot fashion".




Or any of this maestro's performances:






et-bloody-cetera.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

My setlist/repertoire consists of a couple of lists on a usb drive that I plug into my BK7M. There's about 50 songs on one list (my general list) and maybe 15/20 on the other (Irish) that I can play from memory. I play at least a few of them every day and try to play at least a couple of the ones I know less well every day as well to reinforce them. Although the Polkas entry is only one item on the list I can play maybe 10/12 polkas in a row under that general umbrella so it's actually more than it at first appears.
Playing a Roland FR4X means that I can stretch pieces out just by changing instrument settings and doing say a 'solo' using a solo instrument (I like the clarinet and sax for that) over the accompaniment provided by the BK7m. I'll also improvise over the chords of a piece as well with some simple scales, arpeggios and what I like to call 'twiddly bits'!
I usually also have at least a couple of pieces at any one time that I am trying learn to add to the list. My technique for leasrning is to play repeatedly from sheet music or lead sheet (whic is why ythe 4x and headphones are so great) and then to slow stop looking at the music until I can just close the book and play without it.
I've also got a book full of stuff I can play but just don't practice that I am slowly pulling stuff from.
I played a farmers market at the week end for three hours, pretty much continuously and had plenty of music.