Making a report/text file presentation of a SET and/or a UPG

[Jorpe]

Hi friends,

As a retired software engineer, I bought a Roland FR-4Xb to learn how to play. It hasn't been easy, and I don't think I'll ever be able to call myself a musician. Nevertheless, I find great joy in the process of learning simple tunes and producing different, sometimes pleasant, sounds from the accordion.

Another aspect I find intriguing is the technical side of the accordion. I bought Richard Noel's User Programs, which I find very good. At the same time, I would like to reserve a Bank for my own favorite settings.

I have a fairly good understanding of the concepts of SETs and UPGs for the Roland accordion, and I have the Editor installed, allowing me to edit all the settings, export, import, etc.

What I would like is a report function that presents every detail of a SET and a UPG, in order to better understand the changes I might want to try.

I assume such a report would also clarify the relationship between a specific UPG and the SET it originated from, if any.
Is there anyone in this forum who has managed to create such a report, either via the API (Application Programming Interface) – which I assume is not public information – or by interpreting the SET and UPG files?

 

[JerryPH]

There is nothing available to do this... short of doing the work yourself.

The manual shows the factory original settings and after that... it's basically pencil and paper and document what is where.

For me, I just keep track of where things are on a web page on my blog.

 

[kep]

Hi friends,

As a retired software engineer, I bought a Roland FR-4Xb to learn how to play. It hasn't been easy, and I don't think I'll ever be able to call myself a musician. Nevertheless, I find great joy in the process of learning simple tunes and producing different, sometimes pleasant, sounds from the accordion.

Another aspect I find intriguing is the technical side of the accordion. I bought Richard Noel's User Programs, which I find very good. At the same time, I would like to reserve a Bank for my own favorite settings.

I have a fairly good understanding of the concepts of SETs and UPGs for the Roland accordion, and I have the Editor installed, allowing me to edit all the settings, export, import, etc.

What I would like is a report function that presents every detail of a SET and a UPG, in order to better understand the changes I might want to try.

I assume such a report would also clarify the relationship between a specific UPG and the SET it originated from, if any.
Is there anyone in this forum who has managed to create such a report, either via the API (Application Programming Interface) – which I assume is not public information – or by interpreting the SET and UPG files?

Welcome to the company of optimists!
All information about the FR software insights is tightly closed. There was a project on Git long ago, I participated to document the file structures:

FR8x set file

A PC based editor for data files from the Roland FR-8x V-Accordion. - hyphz/fr8x-editor

github.com

 

[Jorpe]

Welcome to the company of optimists!
All information about the FR software insights is tightly closed. There was a project on Git long ago, I participated to document the file structures:

FR8x set file

A PC based editor for data files from the Roland FR-8x V-Accordion. - hyphz/fr8x-editor

github.com

Thank´s Kep! I found that project a long time ago and my intent with my post in this forum was to see if anyone have developed something similar. As far as I could see, the project that you participated in did not have a specification of the file structure? Or, do you have more specific information? It should be fairly easy to development a software listing the settings if you had a documentation of the file structure.

 

[kep]

a specification of the file structure?

The link points to such specification: generally it's an .xml-like file with very specific (7bit) packing of data blocks. Majority of fields was decrypted and recognized, some left unknown.

 

[DonN5LZ]

Not sure if this is what you’re looking for, Jorpe, but back in 2018 I designed an MS Access database for organizing and displaying programmed elements of all 98 UPGs in my FR4X …. And I created a report that prints all of that information onto both sides of a single 8 ½ x 11inch piece of cardstock. It works great for me … I can just flip the “card” vertically from front to back … Banks 1-4 are on the front and Banks 5-7 are on the back. I seem to be continually editing, tweaking and making various changes to my UPGs, so, using the database it is rather simple to just edit the primary fields where I have made changes (and leave the rest alone) … and then I can easily generate and print a newly updated card. In the beginning I laminated the report but have found that I make changes so often I don’t bother with that anymore.

So, on a single two-sided 8 ½ x 11 inch piece of cardstock I now have the following information for all 98 FR4X UPGs: UPG name, RH Accordion, RH Orchestral sound, RH Organ sound, LH Accordion Bass & Chord, LH Orchestral Bass, and LH Orchestral Chord. (AND the specific sounds that are selected when the UPG is brought up are noted with ASTERISKS). Also, if drums are selected that is also indicated, and the date is printed at the bottom of the page. That’s generally more info that is really needed … but it is also very nice to have if and when the need arises.

I bought Noel’s programming with my first FR4X …. Later bought another accordion with Dale Mathis programming … so I have both at my disposal … I have selected a few UPGs from each but have heavily edited them all to the point that they would not be recognizable be their authors. (the advantage of these V accordions is that we can edit and tweak to our individual needs …. Why accept what another player has created to suit himself??) Noel and Mathis each provided some documentation of their programming …. But my little card gives me the info that I want to see ….. It is closer to Noel’s documentation and patterned after the info that he initially sent me, but mine provides more info and, to me, is much easier on the eyes ….. but the main advantage here is that by using the database, after making any changes to UPG Banks it is rather simple to make changes and crank out newly updated reports. I used Noel/Mathis' so-called proprietary programming as starting points in some cases (certainly not all), but I have done so much editing, substituting and tweaking to the UPGs I consider almost all of them to be “mine” at this point … this system seems to work well with the 4X since it has just 98 UPGs ….. but probably not practical at all for the 8X because of the larger number of Banks, etc.

I am attaching a single pdf file of the report which should provide an idea of what I have created. You probably know that MS Access is not “user friendly” for many, but I have used it for years and have done a fair amount of programming and design with it, so it is working well for me ….. this system is obviously not for everyone … and would be “overkill” for many … but if something like this is what you are looking for, and if you are interested, I would be happy to share ….. send me an email: n5lz@comcast.net

 

[Jorpe]

Not sure if this is what you’re looking for, Jorpe, but back in 2018 I designed an MS Access database for organizing and displaying programmed elements of all 98 UPGs in my FR4X …. And I created a report that prints all of that information onto both sides of a single 8 ½ x 11inch piece of cardstock. It works great for me … I can just flip the “card” vertically from front to back … Banks 1-4 are on the front and Banks 5-7 are on the back. I seem to be continually editing, tweaking and making various changes to my UPGs, so, using the database it is rather simple to just edit the primary fields where I have made changes (and leave the rest alone) … and then I can easily generate and print a newly updated card. In the beginning I laminated the report but have found that I make changes so often I don’t bother with that anymore.

So, on a single two-sided 8 ½ x 11 inch piece of cardstock I now have the following information for all 98 FR4X UPGs: UPG name, RH Accordion, RH Orchestral sound, RH Organ sound, LH Accordion Bass & Chord, LH Orchestral Bass, and LH Orchestral Chord. (AND the specific sounds that are selected when the UPG is brought up are noted with ASTERISKS). Also, if drums are selected that is also indicated, and the date is printed at the bottom of the page. That’s generally more info that is really needed … but it is also very nice to have if and when the need arises.

I bought Noel’s programming with my first FR4X …. Later bought another accordion with Dale Mathis programming … so I have both at my disposal … I have selected a few UPGs from each but have heavily edited them all to the point that they would not be recognizable be their authors. (the advantage of these V accordions is that we can edit and tweak to our individual needs …. Why accept what another player has created to suit himself??) Noel and Mathis each provided some documentation of their programming …. But my little card gives me the info that I want to see ….. It is closer to Noel’s documentation and patterned after the info that he initially sent me, but mine provides more info and, to me, is much easier on the eyes ….. but the main advantage here is that by using the database, after making any changes to UPG Banks it is rather simple to make changes and crank out newly updated reports. I used Noel/Mathis' so-called proprietary programming as starting points in some cases (certainly not all), but I have done so much editing, substituting and tweaking to the UPGs I consider almost all of them to be “mine” at this point … this system seems to work well with the 4X since it has just 98 UPGs ….. but probably not practical at all for the 8X because of the larger number of Banks, etc.

I am attaching a single pdf file of the report which should provide an idea of what I have created. You probably know that MS Access is not “user friendly” for many, but I have used it for years and have done a fair amount of programming and design with it, so it is working well for me ….. this system is obviously not for everyone … and would be “overkill” for many … but if something like this is what you are looking for, and if you are interested, I would be happy to share ….. send me an email: n5lz@comcast.net

Don, I am so grateful for your answer. And thank's also to Jerry and Kep. This forum is fantastic.

I don´t have any problems with MS Access. I have worked with that and spent many years working with Oracle. But, after my retirement I have not the Microsoft Office package any more.

Still, I like your approach, so before dropping an email to you, can I ask a specific question which relates to what I am after.

I am a bit "damaged" after a long career as a configuration manager, so I am intrerested in traceability and it might have an answer in your approach or it might get an answer from others in this forum, so let me try to explain my thoughts.

When I bring up an UPG with the FR4x editor I can see a name of the UPG associated with a specific register button. I also see a name of a SET. I bought Noel´s package as well and, with that as an example, the SET name in a specific UPG is "SET WA NOELBASE".

So my first traceability issue is: I would assume that the specific UPG is based on the SET NOELBASE (which is stored in place 100), but I would assume that WA indicates that there are changes compared with the NOELBASE SET. What changes? Are, these changes traceable? Is there any maintained relationship between SETs and UPGs or is the SET name in fact irrelevant for the UPG?

With the same UPG brought up in my editor, I can see the RH Accordion field presenting a name "4 -- MASTER1" in my example. If I choose the edit button of that sound, I see the name MASTER1.

My second question is: What does "4 --" indicate? Is it a link to the source of the reed configuration? And, If I use the Import-function in the edit dialogue, to import an accordion from the same SET or another (from file). Is there any relationship/heritage mechanism maintained? I.e. does the name MASTER1 have any semantic in it, or is it just a random name that could mean completely different things depending on in what UPG it is used in?

Related to your interesting concept Don: Are your database storing the exact setting of the reed configurations behind the accordion names presented on your card?

 

[DonN5LZ]

Jorpe, in an attempt to clarify: I selected MS Access for this only because of its capability to generate a report in a format that would be useful to me…. I wanted to be able to print all critical UPG information, for all 7 UPG Banks, and get everything on a single sheet of cardstock. I DO NOT use this database in the typical manner where I would use functions like sorting, filtering, selecting, including, excluding, etc … I simply wanted to create a report that would provide useful information right at my fingertips. Also, my database DOES NOT include accordion reed configuration information .... instead, I use a short name in a single field to identify each combination. I play or perform exclusively using UPG mode and rarely work with SETs …. Which is why I have focused this report on UPGs. And, like most players, I typically use only a very small number of UPGs 95+% of the time…. And I have all of those “favorite UPGs” stored in Bank 1 where they are easy to access.