Memorizing / By ear playing Poll

[Tom]

Ok, how is your memorizing/by ear playing? Not to put anyone on the spot here. This is out of interest, and just for fun. I’m up to 20 and can figure songs out given (a lot) of time. I can’t perform by ear or sight reading.

 

[Jeremyh]

Hi Tom,

are these the same thing? If I play a tune enough by memory I will learn it, although I will forget it if I don't keep playing it. Learning by ear I find really hard, I just don't seem to have the connection between ears and instrument

 

[Mike t.]

I can play the bass cords for old time fiddle tunes 95% accurate, I can whistle the tune/melody 99% accurate, I can play the melody-right hand less than 80%. My son, the fiddle player is 99% accurate on the violin. This is only for tunes I hear often, I think you have to be able to carry the tune in your head. Having always worked in machine shops, sawmills, and power plants my hearing suffered, (why do they even bother with piccolo reeds?) There should be a category for tunes you hear often or is your genre/passion? Mine must be kids tunes- Row, row, row your boat! 100%

 

[Ventura]

philosophical aside:

this is kinda why i have been, my entire self determining portion
of my life, absolutely resistant to Muzak and Radio Stations playing
as a background

i believe that there is a limited amount of RAM in my brain, and i simply
do NOT
allow any music not of my choosing to repetitively penetrate under
my consciousness, and waste my brain cells

anytime i have something slip by and suddenly attack my awareness,
like a Pepsi commercial jingle, i immediately play some Led Zepplin
in my head and banish the attack to the 7th corner of the inferno

i prefer worthy music to reach my awareness through filters like
friends who have good taste, kids in tune with today, Festivals like
San Remo and Eurovision to bring the cream of the yearly crop
within sampling distance, and Music Video's easily chosen and auditioned

i do somehow seem to keep in touch.. i mean i learned 2 Evanescence songs
awhile back..

when i take a chance it is usually on Live music, as i have admiration for
bands and people who can cut it OUTSIDE the studio

and partly because of my Accordion teacher, Bob Homovich, i did not
and do not listen to other accordion players beyond a minimal extent,
because it is too easy for humans like me to copy something cool i hear,
and he did not want me to play LIKE OTHER ACCORDIONISTS but to
develop my own style and means of accomplishing songs

though i snuck into one of his Gigs in the Bottoms of McKees Rocks onetime..
they let underaged kids come in the Kitchen door to buy sandwiches..
and the next week at lesson i played his version of " Twilight Time " pretty much
note for note.. he scolded me but had a smile on his face..

i am not saying this should be a guide for anyone else,
it is how i have done it and i am glad i did it this way..
i think it made the difference

 

[OuijaBoard]

I ear-learn single-voice melody-line folk tunes on a regular basis. It is the "done thing" in traditional/folk genres such as Irish, Scottish, Quebecois, French balfolk, etc. Somewhere among the rural Irish who did not read music, sheet music was dubbed "the dots" (which I find hilarious), and it's popular slang across folk genres now. Contemporary kids doing music in those genres nowadays often have proper music instruction with "real" teachers and learn to read music, and many of the musicians can and do use "dots" at times--but everybody ear-learns. I don't play Tex-Mex/conjunto/Norteno or Cajun, but I believe ear-learning is also the norm there.

I've related on another thread that after starting to play accordion and roots/folk genres well into grownup-hood, I took three semesters of college music-program ear training courses to improve my facility with it, as the 6/7 years of classical piano instruction I had as a kid/teenager did not include solfege. I was horrible when I started out, but can do it now. I'm not as adept as kids in trad music families who start listening in the womb and ear-learn from early childhood, but I'm 500% better. I "tenderize" first with lots of listening.

In some traditional music classes and workshops there is even an exclusionary snobbery by instructors about ear-learning. I strongly disapprove of this in a teaching setting, as it shuts people out of stepping through an open door into a musical journey that might turn out to be long-term and life-illuminating. I remember an incident many years ago right after I began playing accordion and traditional music, two of the "star" klezmer bands came to my city for a weekend festival that included concerts, talks, and also Saturday workshops taught by band members. In the one I was in the guy taught a klezmer tune by ear, and I and a couple of other neophytes struggled badly to get it. And he was arrogant, condescending, and snotty about that.

Then at the class break, another one of the master musician/band members popped his head in and conversed with our guy quietly but in my earshot. This other one asked the guy teaching us how it was going, and said something like, "You have handouts, right?" meaning, sheet music. And our guy said in this superior tone something to the effect that he didn't believe in sheet music and you needed to ear-learn folk music. And the other guy said quietly but in a really angry and disapproving way, "But you are excluding the people who don't know how to ear-learn. You are shutting them out."

Today I could learn that klezmer tune as easy as pie. But I have always remembered that incident, and I've noticed that the finest, most inspiring master teachers in traditional music classes and workshops teach the tune by ear and hand out "the dots." So that everybody gets to join in the happiness.

 

[OuijaBoard]

So in the poll, I would be an "over 50 tunes by ear." Hundreds, probably. Learning a couple dozen right now for a concert in April by the Scottish traditional group I play with.


But, "anything I hear I can learn by ear?" Um, no. Not Ravel's "Alborada del Gracioso," for instance.

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom,

are these the same thing? If I play a tune enough by memory I will learn it, although I will forget it if I don't keep playing it. Learning by ear I find really hard, I just don't seem to have the connection between ears and instrument

They are definitely related. I probably shouldn’t have linked them in the poll but I did anyway. To me, memorized tunes can be played without sheet music, whether learned by sheet music or ear. Playing a new tune that you haven’t played before, without sheet music I would call “by ear,” but not all “by ear” tunes can be played in performance if the musician needs time to learn it. But “by ear” tunes can be memorized and played. Kind of confusing I guess.

 

[Tom]

I can play the bass cords for old time fiddle tunes 95% accurate, I can whistle the tune/melody 99% accurate, I can play the melody-right hand less than 80%. My son, the fiddle player is 99% accurate on the violin. This is only for tunes I hear often, I think you have to be able to carry the tune in your head. Having always worked in machine shops, sawmills, and power plants my hearing suffered, (why do they even bother with piccolo reeds?) There should be a category for tunes you hear often or is your genre/passion? Mine must be kids tunes- Row, row, row your boat! 100%

I get this. In fact many of the tunes I (used to) play come from my mother singing them. These were the tunes most stuck to my head. Then there are the tunes I heard in my formative years (classic rock) and then those I encountered in accordion land. Maybe I will graduate to my own tunes some day.

 

[JerryPH]

I don't bother playing by ear, call me crazy or lazy... lol

In the last decade or so we can make that number over 50 easily enough, but when I was gigging, there was a bank of like 400+ tunes we ALL had to know. Yes it was written down, but mostof the time for me, I glanced at the music and mostly played anything g off that list by heart and moved around the stage or the audience.

Today, I suffer from data/info overload and prioritize on what places bread on my table

BTW, I read that in an average life we use maybe 5% of our brain capacity, there room to do it all, every memory from birth to the moment io death is all there... the trick is knowing how to get access to it!

 

[Squeezeplay]

Play, or should I say learn both ways. By ear is easiest for me. For dance type stuff, you play it through the first time, I play back up, second time through, I can take the lead. Next month,you play the first bar, I am there. Some tunes, I prefer to use the sheet to learn it, but once learned, I never forget it. I regularly play five or six hours with no music in front of me. Been doing it this way for most of my 78 years. My trick is using what I call “ key “ tunes. Say I play afton pa solvik. That opens my Scandinavian “ folder “. if I play jambalaya, that opens my country, western “ folder “ etc. Cherry Pink, opens my “ cha cha “ folder etc.

 

[Mike t.]

I get this. In fact many of the tunes I (used to) play come from my mother singing them. These were the tunes most stuck to my head. Then there are the tunes I heard in my formative years (classic rock) and then those I encountered in accordion land. Maybe I will graduate to my own tunes some day.

It cracks me up, what was rock is now elevator music! I am my Dad!

 

[OuijaBoard]

It's astounding how resources have grown for making tune ear-learning convenient. You don't hear much mention these days of "The Amazing Slow-Downer" software that slows down the audio recording without distorting pitch. Ten or fifteen years ago so many Irish trad musicians had this software--one taped tunes on the fly at pub sessions, concerts, house parties, where the playing was fast. And then ran it through the "Amazing Slow-Downer" treatment to get the notes and learn it.

Now there are vast quantities of tunes offered free on YT by master-level musicians who play it slowly for ear learning. Or even the traditional way of teaching by ear phrase by phrase. Or the tune is played at a leisurely enough tempo to start with that 70% YT speed enables you to learn it without significant pitch distortion.

Of course, one does have to have enough literacy to be able to vet or discern that the YT demo is a player who is the real deal, both in terms of technical skill and fluency in the idiomatic style. (This can lead beginners astray.)


In some clips the tune is played once "slowly" and once "up to speed." I learned this tune last week:





At the below Cape Breton fiddler's YT channel, clicking on "Videos" produces a slew of wonderful tunes taught in two clips, a slow one for learning and a second one "to speed" for practice--I learned several tunes in the famous (or infamous) "King George" set of Cape Breton tunes from him for our group's annual performance in 2023. I then made micro-adjustments for any differences from how my group's musical directors did it (all trad tune "settings" differ even if at a micro level). Let's see . . . There's the "King George IV" strathspey. And "The King's Reel." And, "The Old King's Reel," and . . . more "King George"! On Cape Breton they sometimes play a slew of "King George" tunes in a whole wild string.


King IV Strathspey slow for learning:







King IV Strathspey to speed for practice:







The madness of "King George"!:

 

[nou]

I can whistle anything I heard enough times to memorize the tune, but it's not the same with keyboards - I have to meticulously learn how to finger each phrase. Some passages are easier than others - if something is an arpeggio or a fragment of a scale, I can "skip ahead", as it's already a block I have in my muscle memory. I could learn by ear from the slow down versions, but because I can't follow along unless I already have the fingering worked out, its inconvenient for me, so I vastly prefer learning from "the dots", but only after I already know how the tune is supposed to sound. However, I only learn from the dots and then memorize for practice/performance. Otherwise, I can't play without sheets. Somehow my brain treats playing from memory and playing from sheet as separate abilities that don't mix well.

So, I have honestly no idea how to vote in this poll

 

[Caps]

I feel so inadequate..... I know maybe five tunes from memory and I doubt I ever play them the same way twice.
For some reason I just have to have the music in front of me even if I only look at it sporadically. And actually, it really hasn't been a big handicap for me. But I do envy those who have a good sense of pitch and memory.

 

[Squeezeplay]

I can whistle anything I heard enough times to memorize the tune, but it's not the same with keyboards - I have to meticulously learn how to finger each phrase. Some passages are easier than others - if something is an arpeggio or a fragment of a scale, I can "skip ahead", as it's already a block I have in my muscle memory. I could learn by ear from the slow down versions, but because I can't follow along unless I already have the fingering worked out, its inconvenient for me, so I vastly prefer learning from "the dots", but only after I already know how the tune is supposed to sound. However, I only learn from the dots and then memorize for practice/performance. Otherwise, I can't play without sheets. Somehow my brain treats playing from memory and playing from sheet as separate abilities that don't mix well.

So, I have honestly no idea how to vote in this poll

One of the best things I ever did was to incorporate into my practise time .... and do this in every key......every time I sit down to practise....play a 4 note arpeggio one octave twice...then two octaves ..then play the major scale one octave twice, then two octaves twice then major minor and seventh chord every key three inversiopns of each. do this ten minute excercise every day for three months, and you will be amazed at your progress. I dion't do this when I sit down to p[lay, but when I sit down to practise...there is a difference. it obviously hasn't helped my speling :-}

 

[nou]

One of the best things I ever did was to incorporate into my practise time .... and do this in every key......every time I sit down to practise....play a 4 note arpeggio one octave twice...then two octaves ..then play the major scale one octave twice, then two octaves twice then major minor and seventh chord every key three inversiopns of each. do this ten minute excercise every day for three months, and you will be amazed at your progress. I dion't do this when I sit down to p[lay, but when I sit down to practise...there is a difference. it obviously hasn't helped my speling :-}

I do something similar, mostly arpeggios and interval "ladders". Because I only play on isomorphic layouts, I don't really have to practice chord shapes or in multiple keys. When it comes to scales, I only recently found the need of them, when I started learning Janko piano. On my Hayden concertina there is simply no point, you know your scales by the end of day one. I suppose it will be necessary to practice scales on the CBA I'm currently restoring, as they have weird shapes.

However, all of this never translated to being able to play off-hand, similar to how I can whistle naturally. There is this fundamental disconnect between my hands and my ears. All those excercises improve my finger movements, rhythm consistency, speed, endurance etc, but I never developed pitch intuition on any keyboard instrument. Not yet anyway.

 

[Tom]

Well, very interesting! The poll shows we have a very wonderful and diverse group of players, with a very diverse way of learning and remembering. And everyone helpful, wow. I think the big takeaway is that, contrary to some popular belief, these things can be learned, and people are willing to share how. Thanks everyone, hope to see you on the zoom later today!

 

[Siegmund]

For me, the two are pretty much completely unrelated.

I seem to naturally have a piece memorized or almost-memorized by the time I can play it well enough to perform it. I memorize much more on accordion than I ever did on violin. Not sure I successfully memorized anything on violin once I was more than about 7 years old.

I have never learned a whole piece of music by ear in my life. Nor can I sing, hum, or whistle in tune, not even Happy Birthday or Mary Had a Little Lamb. I can reconstruct a piece I only have half-memorized sorta-by-ear, experimenting one bar at a time until I find a sequence of notes that sounds right.

The same, incidentally, seems to be true of my learning languages. Babies learn by ear - they can't read. But in all of my foreign languages (good German, rather poor Italian, almost non-existent Icelandic), I read much better than I can hear or speak, and I learned more from books than just by listening. Even hearing Italian nonstop every day this past November while in Italy only marginally improved my listening.

It's a compelling reason to start young, both with music and languages.

 

[cat]

I grew up "ear learning." I also studied classical guitar (and thus, reading) at a young age. But i started lifting music from records at age 10; i remember vividly it was the jesus christ superstar (ca 1970) album that first compelled me. I saw a live production of it - and was in awe of the electric guitar parts. Later, as a rock-obsessed kid, i learned (and still play many of the acoustic pieces) virtually the entire jimmy page catalog. Page used lots of varied tunings, and i became comfortable with lots of scordatura on stringed instruments by age 16.

I discovered i had a knack for ear learning and subsequently picked up any/all instruments i came across. I could still read score, but i learned faster by ear. This was handy as a performer, of course.

Many of the traditional musics i play/study are aural transmission traditions: Norwegian hardingfele, middle eastern maqam, gaelic clarsach, chinese guzheng - in addition to microtonalities in non-western music, the idiomatic styles and devices are such that notation is inadequate to transmit the music, although efforts are often made to communicate with notation-reliant players. Folk forms are like that - although forms such as maqam, raga, han (trad chinese), even gaelic court music aren't "folk" forms, per se.

Where notation is handy is in "vertical" music - harmony. I can hear jazz chords in forms where i am fluent - bossa nova, nuevo flamenco, up until around bebop. It takes oft-repeated listenings to suss out the chords to more complex post-bop jazz harmonies.

 

[Ventura]

"i don't know how to love him" translated nicely into an accordion arrangement..

the accordion's ability to be gentle then intense fit the lyrics well