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dannyd88
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Which do most electric accordion players prefer?
Pros and cons of each?
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Thank you
Danny
Pros and cons of each?
.
Thank you
Danny
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For many years starting in the 60's accordion players started using accordion/organ models such as the Cordovox , Farfisa and Accorgan. Then in the 80's midi kits became available to be installed in a quality acoustic accordion but needed an external expander. In the 90's midi retrofits could be had with built in expanders and are still used and sold today. For all these years accordionists have wished for an instrument in an accordion form that would be self contained - have all the bells and whistles - and be affordable. Well Roland put all their eggs in one basket an came out with a line of "V" accordions which have all of these much wanted features. Its really not a matter of pros and cons but simply that Rolands now take the lead in the evolution of modern accordions. Musically Yours: JIM D.
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dannyd88
Guest
I am one of those Cordovox players. I have been playing keyboards for many years and wanted to get back into the accordion.
I haven't kept up with the electronics advances for accordion and I'm learning now as I go. This forum is a great place to get up to speed.
I have been looking at the FR3 s and also the FR3X.
I just have to decide if the extra $$ is worth it for the newer X model.
I haven't kept up with the electronics advances for accordion and I'm learning now as I go. This forum is a great place to get up to speed.
I have been looking at the FR3 s and also the FR3X.
I just have to decide if the extra $$ is worth it for the newer X model.
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The FR-3 a great little box is limited to the sounds and programs it contains. The FR-3x has a flash drive which makes it capable of on-loading sounds and sets from the FR7x and can play back music such as karaoke downloads and used as backround music. If you can be patient, the FR-3x should be replaced this year (FR-4x ???) and there should be some pre-owned FR-3x's on the market at affordable prices. JIM D.
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dannyd88
Guest
Where can I find these additional sounds and sets from Roland to download?
I looked on Rolands site and couldn't find them.
The limited sounds in the FR3s doesn't concern me. I plan on using Logic Mainstage for most of the non accordion sounds.
The virtual instruments available for Mainstage are endless. These are large samples and will be better than any internal sounds.
I might be able to pick up an FR3S for around $1,200. I think that's a real good price.
I looked on Rolands site and couldn't find them.
The limited sounds in the FR3s doesn't concern me. I plan on using Logic Mainstage for most of the non accordion sounds.
The virtual instruments available for Mainstage are endless. These are large samples and will be better than any internal sounds.
I might be able to pick up an FR3S for around $1,200. I think that's a real good price.
jimgansett
Member
What really did it for me, from the beginning, was the fact that with a Roland, I don't have to lug around an amp for the vast majority of gigs I do, which are assisted living places and nursing homes. I had previously played Cordovox, had a Farfisa Synthaccordion (my favorite before the Rolands) and a couple of Accorgans from Iorio. Got enough stuff to carry. Having started with the 7, then the 7x, and now the 8x, it has been fun watching the Rolands evolve. With each there is a new learning curve and for those who take the time, it's incredible what you can get out of these instruments.
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dannyd88
Guest
I have been looking into the FR 7X and the 8X.
Since you owned both how would you compare the 7X to your current 8X?
Thanks
Since you owned both how would you compare the 7X to your current 8X?
Thanks
jimgansett
Member
That's a tough order, Danny! They are both wonderful instruments. Both have 50w amps internal (25/channel). I Haven't had the 7x for awhile now, but if I recall, the 7x had something like 50 orch voices or so, the 8x has 180, I think. Both are expandable with expansions like Dallape, Alpine, AccOrch. The 7x will take up to 2 expansions at a time, the 8x can take 4. Both have great sound, but I think (and it's my opinion, not fact!) that the 8x voices are cleaner, maybe a bit clearer. Both will allow up to 100 sets, and both come with 37 or so of them already set for different types of accordions. Both come with a version of Roland's tone wheel organ voices and on both the organ voices can be customized with virtual drawbars. Both have a port for a USB memory stick, both allow recording true stereo right from the instrument itself ( records in wav format) and both will read wav and mp3 audio files.
Both being really good instruments, why did I decide to go with the 8x. Well, it wasn't weight, because the 8x is a bit heavier than the 7x. Since I don't stroll, for me it wasn't a factor. But the 8x had some differences which made me switch:
While both can use sets, with the 8x I can create specific user programs, and then make a "User Program List" which is a list of programmed sets I have created for specific purposes. For example, I regularly gig with a jazz/blues harmonica player and I have made up a user program list specifically for using with him, have all the voices and effects pre-set so I don't have to remember what voices and effects I was going to use with what kind of song, which of the 100 sets they reside in, etc. I have an anniversary gig coming up and will make up a User Program List of sets I create for specific songs that they have requested. So basically, you can have a Wedding List, Lounge list, a gig-specific list, etc. I find it useful and very quick.
The bellows resistance can be changed on both the 7x and 8x. The 7x controls it by a wheel on the bass panel that changes the size of an opening for air to escape. With the 8x, they have tried something called Dynamic Bellows Control (which you can switch on and off). It tries to more closely mimic the bellows feel of an acoustic accordion. On an acoustic, the bellows resistance changes with the number of keys pressed, for example, since more valves are open. On the 8x, the Dynamic Bellow Control, which is pretty adjustable, attempts to re-create that. It seems to work pretty well, but if it were the only difference between the models, I wouldn't have switched. Many 8x users are so used to the 7x bellows feel that they turn Dynamic Bellows Control off.
The 8x USB port for the memory stick in on the front grill, on the 7x it's in the back requiring you to pull back the bellows pad and open a little door.
The 8x has a built in port for connection to a computer, which I am now experimenting with. Using a version of PrintMusic from Finale, I am able to record and render a simple piece of sheet music in real time. My computer recognized the 8x's computer port immediately which was nice. Haven't done a lot with it yet.
The charging circuitry is built in on the 8x, so I don't really need the large pedal board to charge it. There are for the 7x, by the way, chargers people have designed so you don't have to use the pedal board to charge it. I think Jim D has some of those.
The 7x midi ports are on the pedal board, although you can use a special cable to allow midi in and out without the board, the 8x has the midi ports built in.
The 8x has 3 chin switches at the top of the treble keyboard. We think this is why the 8x keyboard is thicker than the 7x. I have found the chin switches useful (never had them before!) for doing things like modulation of guitar sounds and sustain, as well as many other functions.
The number of orchestral voices (treble) available at any one time in any set on the 7x is 28, on the 8x is 56 (8x has orch1 and orch2 switches), and 28 organ settings at any one time. Most people wouldn't use nearly that many, but it is neat to have the option of so many to pick from on a single set. On both, you are limited to 7 orch bass types and 7 orch chords types at any one time in a set.
On the 7x, two orchestral voices can be layered, and layering is available on the treble side only. There are more layering options on the 8x. For example, you could layer orch1, orch2, and accordion on the treble; Or you could layer Orch2, Organ, and Accordion on the treble (Orch 1 and Organ share the same setting circuitry so you cannot layer Orch1 with Organ). The 8x will also allow you to layer sounds on the bass side while the 7x doesn't, I believe. so you could have different combinations like orch bass and accordion chords, or accordion bass and orchestral chords.
The 7x allows you to have a split treble keyboard. One of my programs has accordion in the lower half and any other sound I choose in the upper half. I don't believe you can split the keyboard on the 7x.
Both 7x and 8x have drums sounds available. The 7x comes with 1 drum kit for the left side only, the 8x comes with 15 drum kits which can be used on either side. I do a nice drum solo on It Don't Mean a Thing using the treble keyboard.
Finally, there are two things only the 8x has. The first is a looper which allows you to record up to 1 minute and play it back continuously. That's good for songs that have a repeating bass line, for example. And it allows overdubbing so you can add more to the loop. Richard Noel has an interesting looper demonstration using his 8x on YouTube. The second is the 8x has an FX processor which allow for things like tap delays, echos, flanger, phaser, etc. This can make a lot of music sound pretty cool.
The 7x is a great instrument; If the 8x hadn't come out, I'd still be playing it and would be very satisfied with it. It served me well and was extremely dependable. So, if you are kind of deciding on which you might get, it all depends on what you do and what you want available option wise. If you stroll the 7x is lighter. If you don't want or need the additional bells and whistles of the 8x, the 7x will do just fine. If budget is a problem, you can find some used 7x's at a pretty good price.
It all comes down to how you use your instrument, what you want to do with it. I've been typing so long I forgot what the question was
Both being really good instruments, why did I decide to go with the 8x. Well, it wasn't weight, because the 8x is a bit heavier than the 7x. Since I don't stroll, for me it wasn't a factor. But the 8x had some differences which made me switch:
While both can use sets, with the 8x I can create specific user programs, and then make a "User Program List" which is a list of programmed sets I have created for specific purposes. For example, I regularly gig with a jazz/blues harmonica player and I have made up a user program list specifically for using with him, have all the voices and effects pre-set so I don't have to remember what voices and effects I was going to use with what kind of song, which of the 100 sets they reside in, etc. I have an anniversary gig coming up and will make up a User Program List of sets I create for specific songs that they have requested. So basically, you can have a Wedding List, Lounge list, a gig-specific list, etc. I find it useful and very quick.
The bellows resistance can be changed on both the 7x and 8x. The 7x controls it by a wheel on the bass panel that changes the size of an opening for air to escape. With the 8x, they have tried something called Dynamic Bellows Control (which you can switch on and off). It tries to more closely mimic the bellows feel of an acoustic accordion. On an acoustic, the bellows resistance changes with the number of keys pressed, for example, since more valves are open. On the 8x, the Dynamic Bellow Control, which is pretty adjustable, attempts to re-create that. It seems to work pretty well, but if it were the only difference between the models, I wouldn't have switched. Many 8x users are so used to the 7x bellows feel that they turn Dynamic Bellows Control off.
The 8x USB port for the memory stick in on the front grill, on the 7x it's in the back requiring you to pull back the bellows pad and open a little door.
The 8x has a built in port for connection to a computer, which I am now experimenting with. Using a version of PrintMusic from Finale, I am able to record and render a simple piece of sheet music in real time. My computer recognized the 8x's computer port immediately which was nice. Haven't done a lot with it yet.
The charging circuitry is built in on the 8x, so I don't really need the large pedal board to charge it. There are for the 7x, by the way, chargers people have designed so you don't have to use the pedal board to charge it. I think Jim D has some of those.
The 7x midi ports are on the pedal board, although you can use a special cable to allow midi in and out without the board, the 8x has the midi ports built in.
The 8x has 3 chin switches at the top of the treble keyboard. We think this is why the 8x keyboard is thicker than the 7x. I have found the chin switches useful (never had them before!) for doing things like modulation of guitar sounds and sustain, as well as many other functions.
The number of orchestral voices (treble) available at any one time in any set on the 7x is 28, on the 8x is 56 (8x has orch1 and orch2 switches), and 28 organ settings at any one time. Most people wouldn't use nearly that many, but it is neat to have the option of so many to pick from on a single set. On both, you are limited to 7 orch bass types and 7 orch chords types at any one time in a set.
On the 7x, two orchestral voices can be layered, and layering is available on the treble side only. There are more layering options on the 8x. For example, you could layer orch1, orch2, and accordion on the treble; Or you could layer Orch2, Organ, and Accordion on the treble (Orch 1 and Organ share the same setting circuitry so you cannot layer Orch1 with Organ). The 8x will also allow you to layer sounds on the bass side while the 7x doesn't, I believe. so you could have different combinations like orch bass and accordion chords, or accordion bass and orchestral chords.
The 7x allows you to have a split treble keyboard. One of my programs has accordion in the lower half and any other sound I choose in the upper half. I don't believe you can split the keyboard on the 7x.
Both 7x and 8x have drums sounds available. The 7x comes with 1 drum kit for the left side only, the 8x comes with 15 drum kits which can be used on either side. I do a nice drum solo on It Don't Mean a Thing using the treble keyboard.
Finally, there are two things only the 8x has. The first is a looper which allows you to record up to 1 minute and play it back continuously. That's good for songs that have a repeating bass line, for example. And it allows overdubbing so you can add more to the loop. Richard Noel has an interesting looper demonstration using his 8x on YouTube. The second is the 8x has an FX processor which allow for things like tap delays, echos, flanger, phaser, etc. This can make a lot of music sound pretty cool.
The 7x is a great instrument; If the 8x hadn't come out, I'd still be playing it and would be very satisfied with it. It served me well and was extremely dependable. So, if you are kind of deciding on which you might get, it all depends on what you do and what you want available option wise. If you stroll the 7x is lighter. If you don't want or need the additional bells and whistles of the 8x, the 7x will do just fine. If budget is a problem, you can find some used 7x's at a pretty good price.
It all comes down to how you use your instrument, what you want to do with it. I've been typing so long I forgot what the question was
D
dannyd88
Guest
Wow what a great reply.
Thank you so much for the comparison. This is the best one I have read.
I now think that the FR 8X is the way to go.
BTW Jim if you have a MAC check out Logic. In Logic there is a program called Mainstage.
I use it in my keyboard setup and I use Logic for recording. Very similar to Pro Tools.
It would open up worlds of great sounds and plug ins that are larger files than the internals in the FR 8X
The combination of the FR 8X and Mainstage would be amazing.
Thank you so much for the comparison. This is the best one I have read.
I now think that the FR 8X is the way to go.
BTW Jim if you have a MAC check out Logic. In Logic there is a program called Mainstage.
I use it in my keyboard setup and I use Logic for recording. Very similar to Pro Tools.
It would open up worlds of great sounds and plug ins that are larger files than the internals in the FR 8X
The combination of the FR 8X and Mainstage would be amazing.
G
goldtopia
Guest
I have a Weltmeister Achat with MIDI installed. Its called Blue MIDI. It was installed when I bought the accordion new. I have used the MIDI a couple of times but much prefer the natural accordion sound. I think Roland digital accordions are much better with easy access to the various orchestral sounds. You dont need speakers or sound modules and there are no wires trailing about. I had a V3s about three or four years ago but sold it because of the stiff bellows. If Roland could get their belloows sorted out I would have one. They don't sound like natural accordions because they don't breath like natural accordions, they say its something you get used to. But you could have a reed accordion as well for tunes that don't sound right on the Roland. Its likely that Roland are very conscious of what people are saying, maybe some time in the future they will find a way.
jimgansett
Member
Hi Danny, just a couple of things. If you decide to get a Roland, make sure that you try one first, be it the 1x, 3x, 7x, or 8x. Hopefully there is a dealer near wherever you are that you can sit down with and try them. You probably wouldnt buy a car without test driving it, same goes for instruments. The second thing is your choice of dealers. All dealers are not the same. Some have a very good knowledge of the Rolands and some not so much. A dealer who can actually help you with the instrument while you are evaluating it is extremely helpful. In addition, a dealer who is also an authorized service center is a blessing in case the unit has a problem it can be fixed there and not shipped to the national service center.
In addition, if you do get a Roland, whatever model, DO join a V-Accordion forum. There is an excellent one on YAHOO which has many members who have played Rolands for years and the members are extremely helpful when you have questions. In fact, I would check out and read the 7x and 8x forums before buying. Why? Because you will see the goods and bads of the instruments as experienced by people who already have them. Free to join and opens up a nice resource for you to ask questions before and after buying.
Whatever you decide, I wish you a good experience. Keep in mind they ALL have a learning curve, and like all manuals, its not always crystal clear on some topics. Generally, I have found the manuals pretty good. You can download the manuals at Rolands site if you want to look at them beforehand. I dont know where you are but in the U.S. this is the site: Rolands site in the U.S. Just do a search for 7x or 8x and then either downloads or support.
In addition, if you do get a Roland, whatever model, DO join a V-Accordion forum. There is an excellent one on YAHOO which has many members who have played Rolands for years and the members are extremely helpful when you have questions. In fact, I would check out and read the 7x and 8x forums before buying. Why? Because you will see the goods and bads of the instruments as experienced by people who already have them. Free to join and opens up a nice resource for you to ask questions before and after buying.
Whatever you decide, I wish you a good experience. Keep in mind they ALL have a learning curve, and like all manuals, its not always crystal clear on some topics. Generally, I have found the manuals pretty good. You can download the manuals at Rolands site if you want to look at them beforehand. I dont know where you are but in the U.S. this is the site: Rolands site in the U.S. Just do a search for 7x or 8x and then either downloads or support.
D
dannyd88
Guest
Thank you for your suggestions Jim.
I have been into the electronic keyboards since the mini moog. Finding my way around these should not be too hard.
I am in Waretown NJ. The closest shop to me is Liberty Bellows in Philly.
I will go there this week and check them all out.
I did see a video on youtube of the FR 8X. The player also had the FR 7X and said in his comments that he preferred the 7X because it was lighter.
I see that the 8X only weighs a pound more. Do you feel the weight difference a lot between the two?
I have been into the electronic keyboards since the mini moog. Finding my way around these should not be too hard.
I am in Waretown NJ. The closest shop to me is Liberty Bellows in Philly.
I will go there this week and check them all out.
I did see a video on youtube of the FR 8X. The player also had the FR 7X and said in his comments that he preferred the 7X because it was lighter.
I see that the 8X only weighs a pound more. Do you feel the weight difference a lot between the two?
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I have option to switch from my FR-7x to the new FR-8x for a very good price and it's very tempting. There are very many Pro's but one Con is making me wait and that is that the FR-8x is heavier and the accordion itself is larger. My performances require me to stroll while playing and being arthritic a larger and heavier accordion will not suit me. At the moment I'm waiting for the replacement for the FR-3x (FR-4x ???) that should come this year and just might suit me just fine.
jimgansett
Member
Hi Danny.... to be honest, the weight difference is not a factor for me. As I said, if I was a stroller, it would make it more difficult... not impossible...just a little more difficult. As you can imagine, much would depend on the person.... healthy and strong, medical problems, etc. That's why (other than price) some people get a 3x or a 1x. For me, it's not a big deal, for someone else it might be. That's why I said, check the models out before making a decision. One thing that MAY affect you is if you stand and play because the thicker keyboard sits a bit different and if you generally need to look at the keyboard while playing standing, it's slightly more difficult.
So, go on out there. Pick 'em up, play 'em, get a feel for the dealer there. Play each for a decent amount of time. Sit. Stand. Walk. See if the dealer will extend your warranty ( if Roland's is currently 90 days, I'm not sure. It might be a year in which case you don't need to ask for an extended warranty period).
Once you make a decision, commit to that learning curve. Most people who have tried the Rolands and didn't like them is because they are not willing to put in the time to learn the instrument. From what you said about your background, I doubt you'll have any real trouble understanding it.
Good luck,
Jim
So, go on out there. Pick 'em up, play 'em, get a feel for the dealer there. Play each for a decent amount of time. Sit. Stand. Walk. See if the dealer will extend your warranty ( if Roland's is currently 90 days, I'm not sure. It might be a year in which case you don't need to ask for an extended warranty period).
Once you make a decision, commit to that learning curve. Most people who have tried the Rolands and didn't like them is because they are not willing to put in the time to learn the instrument. From what you said about your background, I doubt you'll have any real trouble understanding it.
Good luck,
Jim
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