Moving on to a new piece

[Alans]

As suggested here I do all of the regular warm-up exercises every day-scales hands apart,scales hands together,arpeggios,one set of minor scales and usually the same two pages of Hanon every day-I’m not confident with the second one ht so I keep working on it. I have always taken lessons and I’ve always found pieces on any instrument I’ve ever studied the most difficult part. So much goes into learning a piece. But when do I know that even though the piece isn’t played perfectly, the fingers still don’t always hit the right notes,ht is sometimes very challenging,it is still ok to move on to another one? I understand that perfection can’t be achieved,but when is good good enough for now?

 

[murathan]

Easy-intermediate pieces may be perfected for almost everyone. Hard pieces needs longer times to be developed in time. If the piece goes with a couple of small errors in different parts every time, that may come from attention error which is normal in the beginning of working on a piece. Choosing the right level pieces are the key to play perfect. If a piece pushes you too much (that means its harder than your recent level), it may be passed for another time later. But you will know when a piece is "cooked" enough. Goes without problems and memorized mostly, thats the time to go another piece. However for not to be boring, you can work on 2-3 pieces at the same time.

 

[Rosie C]

when is good good enough for now?

My old piano teacher used to sometimes select pieces because they required a certain technique. Once the technique was mastered we'd move on, even if the piece was unfinished. Other times we'd be doing a piece for an exam or performance and of course we'd try to get it just right. Which is a long way of saying 'depends'

 

[Tom]

Rosie and Murathan make good points here.

Once again, it depends on your goals and your tolerance. And whether you’re playing for yourself or others. Do you need 2 or 3 hours for a gig but don’t have them yet? You may need to play some of them at less than your perceived adequacy. Do you freak out when you make a mistake? You may need to reduce your repertoire and concentrate on “perfection.”

Me, I f up every time I play, could be a song I’ve played perfectly a million times, could be one I just learned and am playing for the second time on the gig. I get excited about playing new music and challenging myself to progress in songs that I want to play. Let’s be honest, I have been trying to play Take 5 for 10 years. I may never get there. But I do a mean Apples Peaches.

You gotta do you, Alan and I hope you find peace in your own ability. I leave you with one of the best advice I ever heard:

“Perfection is the enemy of performance.”

Good luck to you!!!!

 

[breezybellows]

As suggested here I do all of the regular warm-up exercises every day-scales hands apart,scales hands together,arpeggios,one set of minor scales and usually the same two pages of Hanon every day-I’m not confident with the second one ht so I keep working on it. I have always taken lessons and I’ve always found pieces on any instrument I’ve ever studied the most difficult part. So much goes into learning a piece. But when do I know that even though the piece isn’t played perfectly, the fingers still don’t always hit the right notes,ht is sometimes very challenging,it is still ok to move on to another one? I understand that perfection can’t be achieved,but when is good good enough for now?

Think of it as a pipeline. Different songs that are in different stages.

Stage 1: just started. Writing down fingering and bellows change marking. Play a small section with a goal to be able to play the section without mistakes (at a slow tempo)

Stage 2: completely memorized a section of the song. Can play without sheet music. At this stage, I just keep repeating (5-10) times a day.

Stage 3: all sections have been memorized. Need to do repetitions to get it performance ready. This is a great time to think about dynamics. This stage can take weeks to several months.


I usually will only have one sign that I'm learning in stages 1 and 2. That way I'm able to expedite that sign onto stage 3. One I get to stage 3, I as another sing to the pipeline by starting at stage 1. The first 2 stages are more intensive and require more attention. Stage 3 is like auto pilot (doesn't have to be at tempo yet). This way I can learn 3-4 songs in about 3 months. Is you only learn one song at a time until it's perfect, you'll learn take about 3 months to learn a song.

 

[Giovanni]

Rosie and Murathan make good points here.

Once again, it depends on your goals and your tolerance. And whether you’re playing for yourself or others. Do you need 2 or 3 hours for a gig but don’t have them yet? You may need to play some of them at less than your perceived adequacy. Do you freak out when you make a mistake? You may need to reduce your repertoire and concentrate on “perfection.”

Me, I f up every time I play, could be a song I’ve played perfectly a million times, could be one I just learned and am playing for the second time on the gig. I get excited about playing new music and challenging myself to progress in songs that I want to play. Let’s be honest, I have been trying to play Take 5 for 10 years. I may never get there. But I do a mean Apples Peaches.

You gotta do you, Alan and I hope you find peace in your own ability. I leave you with one of the best advice I ever heard:

“Perfection is the enemy of performance.”

Good luck to you!!!!

Well that is very interesting .....I heard years ago an interview with the famous band leader James Last with regard to recording .
It goes without saying there must not be any obvious mistakes that shout out to you !!!....there comes a stage when you the player knows every little possible imperfection ..................you can not obtain the ultra high perfection you seek ......you will not find inner contentment let it go record it .move on ............................ps I do not want to start a Riot with any of you purists ...........just saying ..............
If any of you has sold more recordings than James Last please let us know ....

 

[losthobos]

I love listening to great jazz....I used to piss myself off by concluding I'd never be even close to these players....
Then it dawned on me... they'd be rehearsing/ practicing/ studying a tune for x hours a day while it was fashionable and in vogue...they'd nail it and sound ace....ask them to play it three weeks later when they've been practicing another trending tune and it'd sound mediocre...
We are what we are today....be content with that..
I'm an eternal beginner and ever grateful for the few notes that really send me ..

 

[JerryPH]

But when do I know that even though the piece isn’t played perfectly, the fingers still don’t always hit the right notes,ht is sometimes very challenging,it is still ok to move on to another one? I understand that perfection can’t be achieved,but when is good good enough for now?

Alan, do you perform or gig in public? If yes, it is when you can play through that piece with a high level of confidence, accuracy and precision without sacrificing emotion. Does that mean 100% without error? No.

If you are playing for yourself, YOU are the boss, so it's good enough when YOU say good enough.

A fair example of the 2nd case could be like if you joined Tom in one of his Zoom sessions where we all were watching, you played your piece. It was not perfect, but you had fun along with the 10 mistakes and one restart. You could easily decide that this was good enough and move on to the next song that you may want to play for us on the next session.

Two completely different dynamics, but in both cases, I think if one thinks about it, both are "correct"... it just depends on you.

 

[Ignacchitti]

I love listening to great jazz....I used to piss myself off by concluding I'd never be even close to these players....
Then it dawned on me... they'd be rehearsing/ practicing/ studying a tune for x hours a day while it was fashionable and in vogue...they'd nail it and sound ace....ask them to play it three weeks later when they've been practicing another trending tune and it'd sound mediocre...
We are what we are today....be content with that..
I'm an eternal beginner and ever grateful for the few notes that really send me ..

Well said!

"If I miss one day of practice, I notice it. If I miss two days, the critics notice it. If I miss three days, the audience notices it."
- Ignacy Jan Paderewski

Great and true quote. Though I prefer the version that says "If I miss two days, my wife thanks me".

 

[Tom]

Alan, do you perform or gig in public? If yes, it is when you can play through that piece with a high level of confidence, accuracy and precision without sacrificing emotion. Does that mean 100% without error? No.

If you are playing for yourself, YOU are the boss, so it's good enough when YOU say good enough.

A fair example of the 2nd case could be like if you joined Tom in one of his Zoom sessions where we all were watching, you played your piece. It was not perfect, but you had fun along with the 10 mistakes and one restart. You could easily decide that this was good enough and move on to the next song that you may want to play for us on the next session.

Two completely different dynamics, but in both cases, I think if one thinks about it, both are "correct"... it just depends on you.

Yup, thinking of doing another set of zoom sessions for the forum again this winter. Probably after Christmas when things calm down.

 

[JerryPH]

Yup, thinking of doing another set of zoom sessions for the forum again this winter. Probably after Christmas when things calm down.

Thanks Tom, I know that I really appreciate it. I really did want to pick up the slack while you were busy, but I knew that I wouldn't be able to do it, my life is so bloody hectic that I cannot find the time to play... sheesh, even did not find the time to play while on vacation except for the brief 2-3 songs I played on the new Gola in Germany!

Talk about deprivation... when I came home, I showered, ate and then went downstairs to play for about an hour on my Gola before going to bed... LOL

 

[JerryPH]

Well said!

"If I miss one day of practice, I notice it. If I miss two days, the critics notice it. If I miss three days, the audience notices it."
- Ignacy Jan Paderewski

Great and true quote. Though I prefer the version that says "If I miss two days, my wife thanks me".

Thats a good quote, but one also has to take the goals and desired level of performance in mind too.

To a performance competitor, it rings very true. To me... heck if I can squeeze in a couple hours a month, that makes me and those important to me happy... thats enough for me at this time, though I'd **LOVE** to be able to have the time to do 4 hours a day 6 days a week!

Different situations will either raise or lower the practicing based on the needs.

 

[Ignacchitti]

Thats a good quote, but one also has to take the goals and desired level of performance in mind too.

To a performance competitor, it rings very true. To me... heck if I can squeeze in a couple hours a month, that makes me and those important to me happy... thats enough for me at this time, though I'd **LOVE** to be able to have the time to do 4 hours a day 6 days a week!

Different situations will either raise or lower the practicing based on the needs.

Oh absolutely! Same here.

Sorry if it seemed I posted the quote to preach that people should practice every day. Not at all, in fact most of us can't. Or don't need to cause some are not even professionals. The quote just illustrates how some exteme professionals think.

I play and practice to connect with music and emotions, and it needs to have a personal purpose. I don't have time to practice to reach perfection, whatever that means.

I do find that if days or weeks go by I tend to forget the particular piece and therefore play it badly, but the ability to play the instrument (not that piece per se) is practically unscathed. Like riding a bike. Sometimes it's even better, like I am refreshed, after a break of a week or two... Glad it works that way.

 

[tcabot]

Since I've switched to playing a diatonic instead of a chromatic, I no longer make mistakes.
I invent variations.
Often by accident.
Some of them even sound good.

With CBA my main issue was that skipping a day of practice would ruin my technique. Take a week's holiday, and I'd struggle to play a Cmaj scale cleanly. With family & a busy job, realistically, CBA is just not an option for me.
Diatonics let you get away with a lot, so if you're only playing for your own pleasure, they are worth trying out.

 

[Tom]

I practice to firm up and gain new repertoire. Playing “better” tunes is my current path of personal growth. I understand and welcome the goal of better sound (tone, timing, articulation, etc.) but that is currently secondary for me. So much to learn, so little time. Summer and fall are extremely busy for me in life and I don’t practice every day, though I would like to. My mind does crack apart and I have to do scales or tunes in my head as a sort of meditative practice. Like trying to figure out the Gb scale.

 

[dak]

I practice to firm up and gain new repertoire. Playing “better” tunes is my current path of personal growth. I understand and welcome the goal of better sound (tone, timing, articulation, etc.) but that is currently secondary for me.

It has the advantage of applying to the whole of your repertoire and does not merely come into play 2 hours into your session. The larger your repertoire, the larger the payoff.

 

[Tom]

It has the advantage of applying to the whole of your repertoire and does not merely come into play 2 hours into your session. The larger your repertoire, the larger the payoff.

I’m still working on that “larger repertoire” piece. I desire 3 hours of memorized music that I like to play. This is more important TO ME at this point in my life than how well I play it, as long as it is competent. Technique/sound is SO important but second on the list FOR ME at this moment.

 

[Ffingers]

It has the advantage of applying to the whole of your repertoire and does not merely come into play 2 hours into your session. The larger your repertoire, the larger the payoff.

...and for many people, it seems, the payoff is in greater versatility, greater capacity for playing without scores, freer improvisation/invention abilities and a lot more fun