New comer here! Can I have some suggestions in choosing a CBA?

[NikitaVerde]

Hello! I am new in Accordion Forum. I am also new to playing accordion.

For 2 months, I have been learning accordion with a teacher with my super old B system CBA, which cost me a bit more than €300.
My teacher told me that the accordion I have has several problems. The critical ones are:
- The quality of the sound is poor, as you can imagine.
- The treble side has only 3 rows, which increases the difficulty.
- The size is too small. I (166cm female) can barely keep it stable.

My teacher strongly recommended that I get another proper one. He said I need:
- 120 bass
- 52 notes or above
- 5 rows

Thereby, my question arises.
Of course, I would love to have all the fascinating features, such as multiple registers. However, I should have a reality check.
With a budget of no more than €1,500, what can be a reasonable expectation for an accordion (120 bass, 52 notes or above)?

I am very open to second-hand ones. And I don't mind B or C system as I have been only learning for 2 months. Switching isn't super hard, I suppose...

Thank you!!!!

 

[SteveBox]

Welcome Nikita. This question is asked frequently on this forum. There is another currently active post with this same question. However, that person has a much higher budget than you.

For €1,500 you will not be able to get a new accordion unless it is Chinese made. Some have had good luck with these and say they are okay for a beginner, others have reported serious quality problems. The best accordions in this price range would be a used European made instrument, no more than a few decades old. In either case, it is best to buy from a reputable dealer that has thoroughly checked over the instrument (even a new one), fixed any problems, and will guarantee it for a significant period of time.

Avoid buying from an individual on Ebay, Facebook Marketplace, or elsewhere UNLESS you can try the instrument out first AND feel confident that you can tell if it is in good condition and does not need extensive repairs. This may be difficult for a beginner to do, as accordions may have internal problems that are not obvious from the outside. If you can, have it evaluated by someone who knows accordions.

As a beginner, I question that you actually need 120 bass and 52 notes. That would be a full-size (and heavy) CBA. A smaller CBA, maybe 60 to 96 bass, ought to be adequate, at least until you are much more advanced.

Good luck. Others may have additional advice. If you find something that you are considering buying, post some photos and information and someone here will have an opinion on whether it might be a good buy.

As for B vs C system, that has been discussed many times. One is not better than the other, it is a matter of personal and regional preference. In Western Europe, the C system is more common, so you are more likely to find used instruments and resources for this system.

 

[Pipemajor]

If you have no luck in Spain, consider taking a trip over the border into France.
The place is awash with accordions, mostly CBAs. C system
On Leboncoin alone there are over 23,000 for sale today.
There are many accordion specialist shops there, where you could try.

 

[dak]

Hello! I am new in Accordion Forum. I am also new to playing accordion.

For 2 months, I have been learning accordion with a teacher with my super old B system CBA, which cost me a bit more than €300.
My teacher told me that the accordion I have has several problems. The critical ones are:
- The quality of the sound is poor, as you can imagine.
- The treble side has only 3 rows, which increases the difficulty.
- The size is too small. I (166cm female) can barely keep it stable.

My teacher strongly recommended that I get another proper one. He said I need:
- 120 bass
- 52 notes or above
- 5 rows

Thereby, my question arises.
Of course, I would love to have all the fascinating features, such as multiple registers. However, I should have a reality check.
With a budget of no more than €1,500, what can be a reasonable expectation for an accordion (120 bass, 52 notes or above)?

I am very open to second-hand ones. And I don't mind B or C system as I have been only learning for 2 months. Switching isn't super hard, I suppose...

Thank you!!!!

Your teacher complains about 3 rows and talks about 52 notes/5 rows. That makes it very likely that he is playing CBA himself. And that makes it very likely that he is playing B system or C system himself. If you are planning on sticking with your teacher: it is very likely that he has been learning his system for more than 2 months. So even if you can switch easily, he will be considerably more helpful with one system than the other presumably. Factor that in.

 

[NikitaVerde]

Welcome Nikita. This question is asked frequently on this forum. There is another currently active post with this same question. However, that person has a much higher budget than you.

For €1,500 you will not be able to get a new accordion unless it is Chinese made. Some have had good luck with these and say they are okay for a beginner, others have reported serious quality problems. The best accordions in this price range would be a used European made instrument, no more than a few decades old. In either case, it is best to buy from a reputable dealer that has thoroughly checked over the instrument (even a new one), fixed any problems, and will guarantee it for a significant period of time.

Avoid buying from an individual on Ebay, Facebook Marketplace, or elsewhere UNLESS you can try the instrument out first AND feel confident that you can tell if it is in good condition and does not need extensive repairs. This may be difficult for a beginner to do, as accordions may have internal problems that are not obvious from the outside. If you can, have it evaluated by someone who knows accordions.

As a beginner, I question that you actually need 120 bass and 52 notes. That would be a full-size (and heavy) CBA. A smaller CBA, maybe 60 to 96 bass, ought to be adequate, at least until you are much more advanced.

Good luck. Others may have additional advice. If you find something that you are considering buying, post some photos and information and someone here will have an opinion on whether it might be a good buy.

As for B vs C system, that has been discussed many times. One is not better than the other, it is a matter of personal and regional preference. In Western Europe, the C system is more common, so you are more likely to find used instruments and resources for this system.

Hey, Steve. Thanks!

Yes, I saw that post you mentioned. He definitely gets more budget, which is not my case...
I did check up some Chinese brands (I am Chinese, actually). The price is very lovely, but I am hardly convinced with the quality.

The size I need is quite hard to determine because the one I have now is 55 notes and 100 bass, if I am correct. It sounds like a big accordion, but the reality is that it is too small for me. I guess I gotta look for chances to try other accordions and let my body tell me, if that is possible.

I am "indifferent" in B and C system as I said. B is the one I am playing, but it has only been for 2 months. Switching to C now, which is more popular in Europe, is not too difficult.

Thank you for taking your time in answering. ^ ^

 

[NikitaVerde]

If you have no luck in Spain, consider taking a trip over the border into France.
The place is awash with accordions, mostly CBAs. C system
On Leboncoin alone there are over 23,000 for sale today.
There are many accordion specialist shops there, where you could try.

Hello. This is a veyr helpful information. I will check it up!!!

 

[NikitaVerde]

Your teacher complains about 3 rows and talks about 52 notes/5 rows. That makes it very likely that he is playing CBA himself. And that makes it very likely that he is playing B system or C system himself. If you are planning on sticking with your teacher: it is very likely that he has been learning his system for more than 2 months. So even if you can switch easily, he will be considerably more helpful with one system than the other presumably. Factor that in.

Hi Dak.
Yes, my teacher plays C system. That's why switching to C is attempting to me.
I will take this suggestion into consideration.

 

[SteveBox]

the one I have now is 55 notes and 100 bass

If this is an accurate count, that is an unusual accordion. Is this an old Russian bayan? At 166cm, you are about average height for a woman, so I have a hard time picturing how your accordion could be too small. I am 188cm and have two small CBAs and have no problems. Maybe you can post a picture.

 

[NikitaVerde]

If this is an accurate count, that is an unusual accordion. Is this an old Russian bayan? At 166cm, you are about average height for a woman, so I have a hard time picturing how your accordion could be too small. I am 188cm and have two small CBAs and have no problems. Maybe you can post a picture.

You are right. It is a very old Russian bayan. I got it online a year ago without thinking of taking it seriously. Now it has become a problem for me as I am absolutely in love with playing accordion.
The photo is attached. I feel a bit embarrassed to post it.

I measured it yesterday. It is a quite compact design. The height is around 39cm, while the depth is around 19,5cm.
Since it is "flying" in front me when playing, now I put 10 tiny weight disks under my right foot and 3 or 4 under my left one.

 

[debra]

Sadly for 1500 euro it will be difficult to find a decent quality cba with at least 52 notes that's still in good condition. Accordions depreciate over time, and with what you are asking for 1500 euro you'd easily be looking at accordions of over 40 year and they likely show signs of old age that imply they will cost you moe money in the years to come.
Looking at what's for sale online the Weltmeister Grandina comes closest to what you want and often sells for less than your budget leaving you with a bit of money to ask a repairer make the likely necessary small repairs and tuning that may be needed. It's not great quality and design but it fits the bill.

 

[tcabot]

That's Ukrainian actually.

But if the shoulder straps are fitted well, you should be perfectly fine playing a box this size, especially at 166cm tall.
Here's my current boxes that I'm squeezing. I'm 188cm tall. The wee hromka is more fun to play than the massive Excel and it's a lot smaller and lighter than your kreminne.



1,500 EUR can get you something reasonable with C-griff, but you will have to look hard and, most importantly, you need to see them in person and have an experienced accordionist with you.

 

[tcabot]

There's also one of the best accordions ever made, very slightly over your budget... Cheap if it's as good condition as the seller claims.
Worth a trip to Germany to check it out .

Link to a droolworthy Hohner Morino

 

[dak]

There's also one of the best accordions ever made, very slightly over your budget... Cheap if it's as good condition as the seller claims.
Worth a trip to Germany to check it out .

Link to a droolworthy Hohner Morino

"Collectible condition" and "refurbished" are contradictory. One refurbishment is the grill cloth (the kind of silver cloth used here is of considerably later vintage than the instrument). One would not exchange it if it weren't worn down, and the polished state of the rest of the instrument has also clearly been reestablished recently.

A refurbishment is obviously nice to have, but one would need to know how the internals have been brought up to date to know whether this is a net win or not acoustically.

The Morino Artiste VID is not a top-of-the line instrument: that would be the Morino Artiste XD. Apart from having 5 reeds in the treble, the XD uses leather gaskets instead of wax sealings and has a manual III (3 extra rows of free bass buttons).

The Morino Artiste VID is still an impressive instrument: it has a large ambitus with 62 notes in the right hand with LMMH (as it starts with A2 in M, the piccolo reeds have to wrap around in the last octave). It has the L reed in a déclassement (giving a cassotto-like sound), something which the later Artiste N and S series lack. The standard bass has 5 reeds.

 

[SteveBox]

I measured it yesterday. It is a quite compact design. The height is around 39cm, while the depth is around 19,5cm.
Since it is "flying" in front me when playing, now I put 10 tiny weight disks under my right foot and 3 or 4 under my left one.

I agree with tcabot, if you have the right shoulder straps properly adjusted, and you are holding the accordion correctly, it will be stable, and you should have no trouble playing the instrument you have. Your teacher should have discussed this with you, as this is an important part of playing the accordion. I don't understand the part about putting weight disks under your feet.

That is a cute looking green box. I prefer smaller accordions, and both of my CBAs are smaller than your instrument. One is three row and the other four row (see my profile photo), and each has a three-octave range, which is all I need for the folk music I play. Five rows and/or a greater range is more versatile, but it makes the accordion larger and heavier. There are always compromises. Think carefully before you buy a larger and heavier accordion. Is that really what you want or need?

 

[tcabot]

@dak
Over here, the holy grail is the Shand Morino - a very special diatonic B/C/C# box with stradella basses, also with the declassement. The VID must be from the same era and must be a CBA version of the Shand. Probably similar reeds too.

 

[NikitaVerde]

Sadly for 1500 euro it will be difficult to find a decent quality cba with at least 52 notes that's still in good condition. Accordions depreciate over time, and with what you are asking for 1500 euro you'd easily be looking at accordions of over 40 year and they likely show signs of old age that imply they will cost you moe money in the years to come.
Looking at what's for sale online the Weltmeister Grandina comes closest to what you want and often sells for less than your budget leaving you with a bit of money to ask a repairer make the likely necessary small repairs and tuning that may be needed. It's not great quality and design but it fits the bill.

Yes... I need some reality check. With this budget, choices are limited.
Your suggestion of saving some money for repairing is really helpful. Thank you

 

[NikitaVerde]

That's Ukrainian actually.

But if the shoulder straps are fitted well, you should be perfectly fine playing a box this size, especially at 166cm tall.
Here's my current boxes that I'm squeezing. I'm 188cm tall. The wee hromka is more fun to play than the massive Excel and it's a lot smaller and lighter than your kreminne.



1,500 EUR can get you something reasonable with C-griff, but you will have to look hard and, most importantly, you need to see them in person and have an experienced accordionist with you.

Thanks for clarifying. The listing said USSR, and I automatically thought of Russia...
I will battle against my straps more. Though I have been doing so for months..

 

[NikitaVerde]

I agree with tcabot, if you have the right shoulder straps properly adjusted, and you are holding the accordion correctly, it will be stable, and you should have no trouble playing the instrument you have. Your teacher should have discussed this with you, as this is an important part of playing the accordion. I don't understand the part about putting weight disks under your feet.

That is a cute looking green box. I prefer smaller accordions, and both of my CBAs are smaller than your instrument. One is three row and the other four row (see my profile photo), and each has a three-octave range, which is all I need for the folk music I play. Five rows and/or a greater range is more versatile, but it makes the accordion larger and heavier. There are always compromises. Think carefully before you buy a larger and heavier accordion. Is that really what you want or need?

Lifting my legs with weight disks is the idea I got online when people talking about playing smaller accordion. I tried other suggestions like making the straps longer.. Getting weight disks is the only way that I am able to keep it stable... Not sure if many beginners experience this.

And thank you for praising this accordion. Acutally Nikita is the accordion's name, not mine He is not a very good accordion but I like him.

I will take time to think more... It seems many people here suggesting that the size is OK for me as long as I know how to hold it. Also, €1500 is not a good budget.

Thanks!

 

[SteveBox]

Lifting my legs with weight disks is the idea I got online when people talking about playing smaller accordion. I tried other suggestions like making the straps longer.. Getting weight disks is the only way that I am able to keep it stable...

Are you using the weight disks like a foot stool to lift your legs up higher? It sounds like your shoulder straps may be too short. When sitting, your accordion should be able to rest comfortably on your left leg for support without raising your legs. Watch THIS VIDEO and see if it helps you.

However, that video is for a piano accordion or 5-row CBA. With the narrow keyboard on a three row button accordion, it is possible you may not be able to press your right leg against the keyboard to keep the accordion from moving to the right when you push the bellows. In that case, you may need to depend on your left shoulder strap, and/or use your thumb against the edge of the keyboard AS THIS PERSON IS DOING, who is not even using a left shoulder strap. Experiment and see what works best for you.

 

[tcabot]

€1500 is not a good budget.

It really depends on where those 1.5k EUR are going. If 500 is towards the accordion and 1,000 into sleazy accordion shop owner's pocket, then it's definitely not a good budget.
If you have somebody to help you choose a used box in person, and you really shop around this sort of money should buy:
- Good playable condition high end 3-row Soviet bayan with hand-made reeds (Pro-grade tula, yasnaya polyana, etc - not the horrible mass produced factory-built rubbish sold on etsy etc). 3-row & heavy = they are not as desirable as modern models, but in terms of reeds, sound & playability they are as good as accordions get. Their prices have halved since the start of the war, but most that are sold in Europe are not playable - the good ones tend to be sold domestically because they are good and easy to sell. All the duds get shifted to EU and US by dodgy crooks presenting themselves as online accordion shops.
- Good, very playable condition non-cassotto 3-voice CBA from an Italian maker with TAM reeds;
- Top-of-the-line chambered Hohner or some Italian job from 1950s-1980s that needs a service and a major tuning. Some of these are much more playable than others, e.g. 1950s Hohners' wax can still be acceptable and they used plastic valves that last for decades compared to leather ones starting to go hard after 15 years. If it plays reasonably well out of the box, you can always save up another 500EUR ffor a service & tuning in a few months' time.

But for all 3 options you need someone who knows what you're buying to check them in person!