New Guy needs help with a Horch

[Bullrat]

I just received a free Horch accordion that I would like to bring back to playable condition before I learn how to play it. To do that I need a reference document, manual or parts diagram that shows it's construction. Then I'll need a parts source for anything I find irreparable in my shop. I'll include a picture of what I now have.
I've fixed, repaired and created other items, with the help of the Internet, and love the learning process of applicable reconstruction, repair or creation. Old treadle Singer Sewing machines, banjos, Resonator guitars, bagpipes, 1880 camp stove, 62 Willys Station Wagon come immediately to mind. I'm looking forward to a musical instrument I have always wanted to learn. 1950-70 childhood in Western Pa. was full of East European cultures that learned to walk and Polka about the same time. The accordion was much in evidence.
Thanks in advance for any help I may receive.
Chet
Voluntown, Ct

 

[Dingo40]

Welcome Chet!
Great story!

 

[Bullrat]

Welcome Chet!
Great story!

Thanks, But it will be if I can get some info on this instrument and subsequent parts.
Cheers,
Chet

 

[Valski]

Hello Chet,

Horch accordions were manufactured by Harmona in Klingenthal Germany. It was in the former GDR and although there have been many twists and turns in their story, one of their brands is the better known Weltmeister brand. Harmona per se is no longer in business but the successor company operates as Weltmeister Gmbh. It may be a possibility that some of their parts would work because in its day Harmona was a very large company that employed thousands. With this in mind, it's quite likely that your particular accordion model may have been made under several brand names and badges much like Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick etc... Since it looks like a basic student model, it's unlikely that there will be a detailed history and most likely parts will not be readily available, nor will there be manuals and schematics.

Western Pennsylvania? We used to visit family in Meadville, Franklin and Oil City when I was a kid in the 60's.

 

[Ventura]

unfortuntely, this specific accordion has what i refer to as
"avoid at all costs" waterfall keys

the material is no longer available or made
the method of shaping the keytops is a historical footnote from mid 20th century
there is zero possibility of finding another "donor" accordion and "borrowing"
a few keys as EACH KEY IS UNIQUELY SHAPED to fit the accordion it is in
and there are a couple other keytops obviously also failing (warped)

this also likely extends to the internals of this specific accordion.. if the
Keytops were subjected to the type of extended heat and dryness
it took to destroy several of them, the rest of the accordion components
are also likely baked to the point of critical failure or worse.

i am sorry, but while i am glad you have an interest in restoring an
old accordion and learning perhaps a few songs on it, you may be better off
to "pick your battles" and find a more worthy subject for your efforts.

believe me, there are a LOT of fixable accordions out there in the wild for the taking

 

[Bullrat]

Hello Chet,

Horch accordions were manufactured by Harmona in Klingenthal Germany. It was in the former GDR and although there have been many twists and turns in their story, one of their brands is the better known Weltmeister brand. Harmona per se is no longer in business but the successor company operates as Weltmeister Gmbh. It may be a possibility that some of their parts would work because in its day Harmona was a very large company that employed thousands. With this in mind, it's quite likely that your particular accordion model may have been made under several brand names and badges much like Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick etc... Since it looks like a basic student model, it's unlikely that there will be a detailed history and most likely parts will not be readily available, nor will there be manuals and schematics.

Western Pennsylvania? We used to visit family in Meadville, Franklin and Oil City when I was a kid in the 60's.

Just the sort of info I'm looking for. The History of musical instruments matters to me. Part and parcel. Thank you. That it's likely a basic student model, there's not much danger in making fixes for the sake of function. I have found that similar makes/models of almost every widget out there can be made to do a "good enuf" job. Restoration purists read no further please.
My father was born in Jenners, near Boswell. Coal miners all, Russians, Poles, Ukrains, Latvian's, Italians....you get the picture. All immigrants but the music was a common bond. Polka of course. I took my Connecticut girlfriend , now my wife, to that area to have her meet them all. I told her we're going to a place tonight that everyone will be fatter than you and happy. Her take on that Polka experience, "Please, anything but the Accordion. I'm begging you". I now play banjo's, (in deference to my Appalachian maternal side) and until recently ,bagpipes (in deference to my wife's Scot father). This free accordion's time has come.

Chet

​

 

[Bullrat]

unfortuntely, this specific accordion has what i refer to as
"avoid at all costs" waterfall keys

the material is no longer available or made
the method of shaping the keytops is a historical footnote from mid 20th century
there is zero possibility of finding another "donor" accordion and "borrowing"
a few keys as EACH KEY IS UNIQUELY SHAPED to fit the accordion it is in
and there are a couple other keytops obviously also failing (warped)

this also likely extends to the internals of this specific accordion.. if the
Keytops were subjected to the type of extended heat and dryness
it took to destroy several of them, the rest of the accordion components
are also likely baked to the point of critical failure or worse.

i am sorry, but while i am glad you have an interest in restoring an
old accordion and learning perhaps a few songs on it, you may be better off
to "pick your battles" and find a more worthy subject for your efforts.

believe me, there are a LOT of fixable accordions out there in the wild for the taking

Have you no courage Sir??!! Have faith man!(Just kidding). To say that I have heard words almost exactly like those would be an understatement. Thank you for your candid answer. But I get it. Thing is, the futile attempt to get it playable will be a learning experience I look forward to. I don't think I've ever started and finished with the same "level" of quality in the things I've renovated. Sewing machines, banjo's, resonators, old cars, ........But what it did do was make me aware of what "Better" looked like. The problem looks like finding a teacher that will tolerate the sound it makes may be a greater challenge. hence you tube. And a shop that's 75' from the house.

Chet

 

[Dingo40]

75' won't be far enough!

 

[kimric]

I can't really see in the pics what is wrong with the keys. You could probably find a beat up larger instrument to use for donor keys. You can relax the keys with a temp controlled heat gun, but getting it too hot can get exciting in a bad way. Most of the instrument is wood so you cab just make replacements for warped parts. Walnut is a good choice since it has good stability over a wide humidity range.
Get a copy of the Ruther book for general repair info. http://www.musicforaccordion.com/Boutique/inform/reuther/

 

[Squeezebox Of Delights]

Those are very common boxes, at least in the UK where I am. I don't think it would be too hard to find a cheap one online thst you could strip for parts. The keys might be a challenge, but I don't think it should be too hard. It's also not a brilliant instrument in the first place, which makes it a great candidate to try repairing. From the image I can see that you need some reed wax, leather valves and potentially some hide glue. You're unlikely to find diagrams or parts lists, and I think the best thing to do would be to take a screwdriver and a pair of pliers to it and see how many bits you can get it into! Within reason, of course. That way you can figure out how the thing works and what needs doing. A really good online resource for this kind of thing is https://accordionrevival.com/.

Good luck!

 

[Bullrat]

Thanks to all, I've got enough info to make a pretty good go at it. I think one of the best suggestions, of many good ones, is to get another one and swap parts. It also is a good substitute for unobtainable literature. I've got various wood species to pick from if recreation is necessary. White and red oak in plain sawn and quarter sawn,walnut, cherry, mahogany, apple, magnolia, butternut. Bout it. If any of these are particularly suited for renovation, chime in. Being a beekeeper, I've pounds of wax. I'm going to look for a recipe to wax in the reeds. Have one that seems to be equal parts wax and rosin and "a few drops " of linseed oil.Didn't mention boiled or raw. I could use some insight on that. I'll also offer up wax to anyone looking for honeybee wax. I've shipped and received from all over the "States" and a few European so don't be shy in a request.
Thanks again,

Chet

 

[Ventura]

well Sir

you say " ... I think one of the best suggestions, of many good ones, is to get another one and swap parts."

so i say, rather than throw good money after bad, maybe just throw it instead on this
nice fixer upper just down the highway:

Used Hohner CARMEN ACCORDIAN WITH CASE - musical instruments - by owner - sale - craigslist

Hohner Carmen. It sounds amazingly magical. It’s just too big for me!

cnj.craigslist.org

it would actually have some resale value when refurbished, and it is a desirable brand
and model made of quality materials probably with a pleasing sound and (key) action

i chose it because it is similar to the one you have set your sights on, but is
an obviously better candidate for so many reasons

there are other inexpensive and quite fixable accordions closer to your area

Accordion 1950's - musical instruments - by owner - sale

Beautiful Italian accordion with case. Works fine (although I don't play). Marked Atlas Melody. Measures 19" ×16" ×8".. prefer local pick up, might deliver within reasonable distance. Please make an...

newlondon.craigslist.org

but this one doesn't need a whole lot of work, though it looks to be
only an hour or so drive to pick it up.. it is a bit larger and more versatile
in quantity of reedbanks and variations of sound (plus more keys)
but less of a challenge for you

if you keep an eye out, i might recommend watching for a mid sized
Paolo Soprani, as many of their older designs incorporate a bee-hive
motif on the front grill (it is sound waves expanding, but looks very hive-like)

i stand by my original assessment, that all your work on this Horch will
turn into dissapointent when you find the Keys
(which were not much to write home about to begin with)
will remain the achillies heel of this dream no matter how many others
you find for parts

good luck either way

 

[Bullrat]

well Sir

you say " ... I think one of the best suggestions, of many good ones, is to get another one and swap parts."

so i say, rather than throw good money after bad, maybe just throw it instead on this
nice fixer upper just down the highway:

Used Hohner CARMEN ACCORDIAN WITH CASE - musical instruments - by owner - sale - craigslist

Hohner Carmen. It sounds amazingly magical. It’s just too big for me!

cnj.craigslist.org

it would actually have some resale value when refurbished, and it is a desirable brand
and model made of quality materials probably with a pleasing sound and (key) action

i chose it because it is similar to the one you have set your sights on, but is
an obviously better candidate for so many reasons

there are other inexpensive and quite fixable accordions closer to your area

Accordion 1950's - musical instruments - by owner - sale

Beautiful Italian accordion with case. Works fine (although I don't play). Marked Atlas Melody. Measures 19" ×16" ×8".. prefer local pick up, might deliver within reasonable distance. Please make an...

newlondon.craigslist.org

but this one doesn't need a whole lot of work, though it looks to be
only an hour or so drive to pick it up.. it is a bit larger and more versatile
in quantity of reedbanks and variations of sound (plus more keys)
but less of a challenge for you

if you keep an eye out, i might recommend watching for a mid sized
Paolo Soprani, as many of their older designs incorporate a bee-hive
motif on the front grill (it is sound waves expanding, but looks very hive-like)

i stand by my original assessment, that all your work on this Horch will
turn into dissapointent when you find the Keys
(which were not much to write home about to begin with)
will remain the achillies heel of this dream no matter how many others
you find for parts

good luck either way

Well said, especially from someone that has a prepared mind on this subject. And persuasive enough to redirect my attention. Funny how similar renovating an accordion is to some of my past renovations. Similar in terms of value of the pursuit as an end goal. It's a Singer vs White or GM vs Willys kind of argument that I would submit if I where to offer suggestions on those projects.
Two questions come to mind in regard to your suggestions. First, make/model "sweet spot " list. Secondly, closely associated with the first question, I think the beginner/student types of piano key accordions are less intimidating. To me at least. Small equates to easier. Additionally, I have the soul of a minimalist. An Un-American attribute I admit, where more is the ultimate goal. At this point, less or at least just enough fits the bill. Those two accordions you suggested looked like monsters to me! Got anything on the list that is "just enough"?
Thanks , again, , worth every dime,

Chet

 

[Squeezebox Of Delights]

Secondly, closely associated with the first question, I think the beginner/student types of piano key accordions are less intimidating. To me at least. Small equates to easier. Additionally, I have the soul of a minimalist. An Un-American attribute I admit, where more is the ultimate goal. At this point, less or at least just enough fits the bill. Those two accordions you suggested looked like monsters to me! Got anything on the list that is "just enough"?

Just chiming in again because small accordions are an area that I'm really interested in. A mid-century Hohner students is a great choice if you want a very compact but nice box. They were made from the 50s through to the 90s I think, and came in 8, 12, 32 and 48 bass configurations. They usually have three couplers that allow you to switch between M and MM (or sometimes M and LM), like the slider on your box. You can sometimes get similar Italian accordions; I have a lovely '60s Excelsior 32 bass, and it's almost small enough to fit in one's pocket! A disadvantage of course is that you miss out on a few notes on anything less than a 60 bass, but that often doesn't matter if you're not planning on playing complex music. You get 'miniature' accordions sometimes too, Hohner's Imperial range from the '30s is a good example. These are often in suboptimal condition though, and they have very, very small keys! The great thing about small accordions is that, not only are they easier to manage, they're cheaper to repair too!

 

[Ventura]

hey Chet

well, i chose those two because of location and minimal price

there are lots more choices but perhaps not as a fixer-upper minimal investment

generally speaking, the modern accordion person also tends to prefer smaller
models, as niche styles of play and more ethnic usage or specific genre'
are in a persons mind when they decide to take one up nowadays
and many new/young accordion players are musicians with other primary instruments
first, then adding accordion

the newer models also reflect modern choices for voicing, with
more preference toward the meusette sound, we refer to as
MM or LMM in a smaller accordion

Middle Middle / Low Middle Middle being a 'warmer" pleasing sound

the second accordion in the previous message with 7 shifts is L M H
Low Middle High which was the preference last century in a medium size
student accordion in the USA

these refer to the number and octave of the reedblocks
(internal harmonica's kind of)

finding older USA models that have a compatable sound/setup for modern use
can be difficult, but there are some out there

smaller accordions back then tended to be student level

more smaller accordions now are built with higher quality
as they are for adults who can afford something nice

there are still cheap small beginner accordions made too

the Hohner from the previous post actually would be considered
a "smaller, lighter" model, and probably has a nice set of reeds
very possibly LMM or MM, and it's type of construction tends
to be a bit lighter weight than others the same size

you would not want any fewer bass notes as an adult
than this Hohner or the Horch at minimum, the 12 bass
models are for beginners and sound like it

there are smaller keyboard grey Hohners with more basses actually,
also lightweight nice quality reeds and good to fix-up.. modern parts
can be used on these is the big advantage, but you also really never want
to take on anything that has been so overheated in an Attic that the keytops
are curling or falling apart or crazing or crumbling

i fixed up a little grey Hohner Mouse myself ages ago and just use it for Oktoberfest
strolling, as it really has an old German sound..and actually i have a spare
for parts (ended up i never needed any) and if you care to drive past Wash DC
this Summer i will give it to you as an alternative to the Horch

those types of keytops are just flat pieces over the wood key underneath, and so
nothing individually unique or difficult to work with compared to the Waterfall type..

even when someone restores a Waterfall Key box i have to caution, a year or two
down the road, snap one key and the box is useless unless they have your skills
for cobbling some kind of repair

if you read back through the posts of the last couple months, there have been
a few very nice smaller accordions pictured and discussed

ciao

 

[Bullrat]

Next issue: Identifying the order of the reeds. I opened the box to find what you'll see in the attached picture. A search on youtube shows me many ways to wax them into place but I have been unable to find a technique to replace them in the correct order. I suspect getting them to sound and identifying the note via a clip on or proximity tuner, like the kind I use for my stringed instruments is the course one would take.
I don't see any footprint that's reflected in the wax on the reed or the wooden box that indicate previous position. Nor any markings that are individually unique. Gotta be some tuning ID method.

Chet

 

[Ventura]

well you have to figure out which button/row is C
then go from there

E A D G C F Bb Eb
or
A D G C F Bb Eb Ab

aside from that, more bad news

i am looking along the outside edges of the accordion box frame..
it appears to be thin plywood that has also warped and separated.. if you can
slide a razor blade or thin feeler guage down in those cracks and if
they are deep and wide, will the box will ever be airtight again ?

an accordion needs to be more or less airtight

i will let someone more familiar address the glued in reedblocks
and what that means and whether there is any chance of you getting them
glued or otherwise mounted back in place with each chamber being airtight
and no cross leakage, as well as doing that without getting glue on the valves
on the other side of those holes leading to the buttons/keys

most accordions are designed with removable reedblocks so they can
be worked on/tuned at need

 

[Bullrat]

well you have to figure out which button/row is C
then go from there

E A D G C F Bb Eb
or
A D G C F Bb Eb Ab

aside from that, more bad news

i am looking along the outside edges of the accordion box frame..
it appears to be thin plywood that has also warped and separated.. if you can
slide a razor blade or thin feeler guage down in those cracks and if
they are deep and wide, will the box will ever be airtight again ?

an accordion needs to be more or less airtight

i will let someone more familiar address the glued in reedblocks
and what that means and whether there is any chance of you getting them
glued or otherwise mounted back in place with each chamber being airtight
and no cross leakage, as well as doing that without getting glue on the valves
on the other side of those holes leading to the buttons/keys

most accordions are designed with removable reedblocks so they can
be worked on/tuned at need

Thanks, since it's a mixture of education and renovation, I'm still learning ALOT about these. But I knew it wouldn't be without work. I'll need to digest this new info.

Chet

 

[Bullrat]

In my pursuit of replacing the reeds in the correct order, I measured the reeds with a clip-on tuner used for string instruments. I assumed a reed would respond to harmonic vibration being plucked with a tiny screw driver the same as if air was passing over it. Flawed or not, the short reeds (1 7/16") reported E-A-D-G-C-F-Bb-Eb results. The large reeds (2 9/16") reported five G's and three F's results. These results were the same if plucked from either side of the reed. Do the larger reeds serve as drones? If so, are they organized as G-F-G-F-G-F-G-G or some random version? Or, are my results faulty?

Chet

 

[donn]

...
generally speaking, the modern accordion person also tends to prefer smaller
models,

Though, have I not recently noticed that the modern accordion person (a rare beast) is starting to notice that larger models contain more air, which has its uses?