Pitch standard in your country ?

[Geoff de Limousin]

I have probably asked this before but What is the pitch standard ,for new accordions being sold in your country ?

The reason for my question is that I am looking for a new or new-ish accordion and almost every time I see a potential purchase and ask the 'diapason' question those , if they know, come back with A=442hz. This is in France where it appears to be the modern standard.... mostly. But I would prefer to stick to 440hz. as I play with others who use this as their reference. So a simple solution could be to purchase from a neighbouring country where the pitch I wish is the norm.

Ok I could order 'New' and stipulate my preference but there are so many lovely used accordions around... perhaps next door... in Swiss or Belge or... UK or ?

 

[maugein96]

Geoff,

Scotland seems to be 442Hz, and the only references I've seen to 440Hz off the shelf were Germany and Switzerland, but that wasn't recent. I've also read somewhere that 440Hz tuning was promoted by the Nazis for all musical instruments as the pitch was said to incite warlike behaviour! 442Hz was deemed to have an unwanted calming influence. Don't know what the science behind that theory was, or whether it was just a load of rubbish, but thought I'd let you know.

As a technophobe it was only when I read some of your posts that I became aware that diapason was an issue with accordions. I've just listened to various guitar music comparisons between 432Hz and 440Hz on You Tube, and to be honest I couldn't reliably tell which ones were which. With acoustic it was a straight preference for 440Hz over 432Hz. However, there were two tracks played on one occasion on electric guitar with some distortion when I stated I preferred the first one over the second, but they were precisely the same!

I appreciate you've been making musical instruments for a very long time so you know what to look for, but folk like me are often at a loss. I do remember Danielle Pauly making records along with a Scottish accordionist playing duets, and the accordions were definitely not in tune with each other. Hers was the same as mine, a Maugein Mini Basson/Sonora, but I cannot remember what his PA was, or even the player's name.

 

[JackieC]

I've always stayed with 440Hz tuning. Works well for my musical needs.

 

[debra]

I have probably asked this before but What is the pitch standard ,for new accordions being sold in your country ?
...

Sadly its not just a country thing.
The standard pitch is 440Hz everywhere. It is an ISO standard. But then... the de-facto standard used by professional musicians is 442Hz, sometimes even higher. This is not an accordion standard, it is a more general standard. String instruments can go louder at 442Hz because of the increased tension on the strings.
Different accordion manufacturers use a different default, not per country they sell to, but for everyone. When you dont say anything and order a new Pigini it will be 442Hz. Do the same at Bugari and it will be 440Hz. Hohner used to be 440Hz but it may have changed since Pigini got involved...
Here (in the Netherlands and in Belgium) the reality is that most instruments used for learning are older instruments and are 440Hz and new student instruments are often also 440Hz so they go well together. When you become professional, the new instruments tend to be 442Hz (whereas 30 years ago they would have been 440Hz). But there are exceptions. When I started learning the accordion, almost 50 years ago, everyone in the orchestra used Crucianelli and they were all 442Hz.

So the short conclusion is: there is no real standard anywhere I know, even though there is an ISO standard.

 

[donn]

In case its helpful - I guess you already know, judging from the choice of words in the subject title - diapason means other things in English, several other things but as far as I know pitch standard isnt often one of them.

As far as adding to the anecdotal information pool, the best I can do is that my accordion playing colleagues accordion played sharp, an inexpensive student model thats common around here (western US) from back in the day (60s?), Enrico Roselli ... my guess is that US student market would never have chosen A=442, they just werent offered any choice in the matter. I never put a tuner to him, I just never could quite reach him with my old Eb tuba.

Despite such confusion, A = 440 Hz is the only official standard and is widely used around the world. Many orchestras in the United Kingdom adhere to this standard as concert pitch. In the United States some orchestras use A = 440 Hz, while others, such as the New York Philharmonic use A = 442 Hz. The latter is also often used as a tuning frequency in Europe, especially in Denmark, France, Hungary, Italy, Norway and Switzerland. Nearly all modern symphony orchestras in Germany and Austria and many in other countries in continental Europe (such as Russia, Sweden and Spain) tune to A = 443 Hz. The Boston Symphony Orchestra tunes to A = 441 Hz.

Portugal would follow the French, Im guessing, but the used market there seems to be pretty extensive.

 

[JIM D.]

First of all the accordions made in the US.
Accordions were manufactured in the US in San Francisco, Chicago & Midwest and New York & Northeast from the 1880's to the late 1950's. 98% of these I've worked on were A=442. By the 50's most of the US firms were out of business and the remaining few switched to importing their accordions from Italy with their badge applied. 90% of Italian imports to the US were tuned 90% A=442 and 10% A=440 (by special order). As far of German imports, I've found older Hohner's and Weltmeister's to be 70% A=440 and 30% a=442. As far as Chinese imports here, models with German reeds installed are A=440 - the models with Italian reeds installed are A=442 - and models with Chinese reeds, Well it's hard to tell, as they come in new, terribly out of tune in the first place.
I've been told by some of my late mentor's that back in the day, the practice of tuning an accordion A=442 was to give it more presence when played with other instruments tuned A=440.
As far as older digital accordions that contained reeds, they were all tuned A=440 to match the digital A=440 sounds they produced. The new "V" model accordions are A=440 by default. {}

 

[JeffJetton]

FWIW the Vienna Philharmonic plays at A = 443, which is purportedly a component of their distinctive sound.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Many thanks for all these informative comments!

I note that several 'clip on' electronic tuners for stringed instruments I examined recently have no facility for changing the reference pitch .

From my persepective the fact that many fine secondhand CBA's are for sale in France is a bonus for a buyer and if they are mostly in A=442hz. then, well it could be far worse. There are obviously many accordionists playing their 442 's with other instruments in 440 and being blissfully unaware... a wee bit of musette vibrato covers the differences for the most part.

So far I have found that accordions made before the international agreement of A=440hz.( in 1939) will be around 435hz. in France. Several just post war models I have come across were at 440 ( my 1949 Buzzi Frères and a Cavagnolo Pro 12 from the early 1950's for instance) and the later ones can be as sharp as 445hz ! My first CBA was a Crucianelli at 444hz... it went back to the shop.

So I will try to choose my next accordion for its sound and versatility and not be too concerned if it is in 442hz.

 

[debra]

... My first CBA was a Crucianelli at 444hz... it went back to the shop...

Ouch... As part of me learning the first basics of accordion repair and tuning I overhauled a 40-bass Crucianelli. Luckily it was tuned only to 442 so I could tune it down to 440 with not too much effort. I also reduced the over 20 cents of tremolo to around 18 for a more civilized sound.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

... My first CBA was a Crucianelli at 444hz... it went back to the shop...

Ouch... As part of me learning the first basics of accordion repair and tuning I overhauled a 40-bass Crucianelli. Luckily it was tuned only to 442 so I could tune it down to 440 with not too much effort. I also reduced the over 20 cents of tremolo to around 18 for a more civilized sound.[/quote]

Last night my good friend offered a 120 bass Marzella that is at 443 ... for me to learn accordion tuning! :? I think I should start with someting a little smaller !!

 

[debra]

...
Last night my good friend offered a 120 bass Marzella that is at 443 ... for me to learn accordion tuning! :? I think I should start with someting a little smaller !!

Good thinking! The small Crucianelli was only 2 reeds, 26 notes, and I did not touch the bass side yet it sounds fine, so maybe that was not tuned as high to start with.
The Crucianelli was old and needed the wax and valves replaced. That was good because it meant taking off all reed plates allowing better access to the reeds that are on the inside of the reed block. I would generally not advise to try to tune a whole accordion down without removing the reed plates.

 

[Morne]

Interesting topic on the German music forum:
https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/hohner-organola-ii-c.656881/#post-8199258

Somebody posted a Hohner catalogue from 1937 which indicates:
Normal tuning: 435Hz
Jazz tuning: 440Hz

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Interesting topic on the German music forum:
https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/hohner-organola-ii-c.656881/#post-8199258

Somebody posted a Hohner catalogue from 1937 which indicates:
Normal tuning: 435Hz
Jazz tuning: 440Hz

Thanks Morne, that is interesting!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I went to elementary school in The Bronx, New York some (comment muffled ) years ago, and the school went up to the eighth grade. A junior high school was planned for our neighborhood, but construction had not yet started. At the time, any child in the district who was taking music lessons was encouraged to join a district band that traveled from one school to another. Accordions were VERY popular instruments then, and most were tuned to A=442. But, occasionally we encountered a school with a piano that was either flat or tuned to an older standard, say, A=435. So, at those times, we sat like dummies with our accordions on our laps with the bellows straps closed, because the band members at those particular schools tuned their instruments to the piano and everyone else had to follow suit. I didn't realize what was going on at the time, just that we couldn't play ...

Alan

 

[debra]

435 is indeed really old. But some older piano's posed a serious risk of breaking if you tried to tune them up to say 440Hz (and even more so when trying 442). Locally we have been using 440 and some other instruments (like old recorders) had trouble going that high. You can extend a wind instrument to lower the frequency but you are more limited as to how high you can go.

 

[JeffJetton]

Around here the pitch standard for accordions is about six meters, although it depends on how strong your throwing arm is.

 

[JerryPH]

... or how deep the creek is... lol