Question about handmade reeds.

[Gonk]

Just want to add, I agree with you, Ventura, unless one wants that classic "organetto" sound -- the most pronounced wah-wah tremolo effect will happen with the MM, since the third M blends them a bit. My old Paolo organetto sounds very "juicy" (with pulp) and not at all refined.

 

[saundersbp]

I have two Bugari accordions: a 508/ARS/C with a mano reeds and a 540/ARS/C with typo a mano reeds. I do not notice a difference in sound between the type of reeds. I do notice a significant difference in sound caused by the 508 having 2 reed blocks in cassotto and the 540 having 3. (The difference is most obvious in the M register: the cassotto makes the sound of the first row of buttons very mellow, the second row a bit less mellow and the third row even less mellow. The effect is more pronounced on the 540 than on the 508.

Hi Paul,

Just rereading this. If there is a big difference in tone on M register between rows 1 and 3 on your 540 accordion how does that work for music as it must make for an uneven tone across a scale with certain notes more mellow than other adjacent notes? Hope I've understood this correctly: are you saying it's a design flaw?

Cheers, Ben

 

[debra]

Hi Paul,

Just rereading this. If there is a big difference in tone on M register between rows 1 and 3 on your 540 accordion how does that work for music as it must make for an uneven tone across a scale with certain notes more mellow than other adjacent notes? Hope I've understood this correctly: are you saying it's a design flaw?

Cheers, Ben

It all depends on who considers what to be a "big difference"...
On accordions with two reed blocks in cassotto the difference in tone is less pronounced between the two blocks, but I can hear it quite clearly on the M register (which is closest to the "exit"), When there are three reed blocks in cassotto the difference between the two "deepest" blocks is small but the difference between them and the block at the exit is larger, especially on the M register. Some people do not notice the difference at all, but I hear it quite clearly. So with my accordions, I can hear the difference very clearly on the M register on both my Bugari 540/ARS/C and on the AKKO bayan, but I can hear it just as clearly on all other accordions I have tried that have 3 reed blocks in cassotto. On the L register there is no problem: the L reeds are deep enough inside the cassotto for all reed blocks. On my other accordions with just 2 blocks in cassotto: the Hohner Morino Artiste XS and the Bugari 508/ARS/C the difference is much harder to notice and is certainly not a problem.

 

[saundersbp]

Thanks Paul, wonderfully clear, so I think you are saying there is a design limitation with your 540 and other accordions of similar construction on the M register which does have a musical consequence. Do you avoid using the M register on its own because of this? It would drive me crazy I think on such top instruments and I might just use L up and octave because my ears would get irritated with a register with such unevenness.

 

[Scuromondo]

Thanks Paul, wonderfully clear, so I think you are saying there is a design limitation with your 540 and other accordions of similar construction on the M register which does have a musical consequence. Do you avoid using the M register on its own because of this? It would drive me crazy I think on such top instruments and I might just use L up and octave because my ears would get irritated with a register with such unevenness.

Actually I think he is saying that, due to the fact that all reed blocks in a cassotto are not physically at the same distance away from the cassotto opening, this is an artifact of every instrument with cassotto. But I think Mr. Debra’s ear is able to detect differences that most of us (certainly me!) are either unable or detect or perhaps just not as well trained to listen for. I have no doubt these differences exist, but I think few people are troubled by them or even aware of them

 

[debra]

Actually I think he is saying that, due to the fact that all reed blocks in a cassotto are not physically at the same distance away from the cassotto opening, this is an artifact of every instrument with cassotto. But I think Mr. Debra’s ear is able to detect differences that most of us (certainly me!) are either unable or detect or perhaps just not as well trained to listen for. I have no doubt these differences exist, but I think few people are troubled by them or even aware of them

Exactly! But... there are exceptions: there are some rare accordions that have all reeds in cassotto by using two separate cassotto chambers. In these accordions the same reed for all notes is at the same depth in its cassotto chamber.
Few people are aware of the differences. But once you notice the difference between the reed blocks (in the M register) you cannot "unhear" it...
Many players, especially jazz players, tend to use the L register, played one octave higher, instead of the M register, precisely because of the somewhat more mellow tone that is virtually equal between the reed blocks in cassotto. This is the reason why jazz piano accordions have a keyboard going up to high C (instead of A) by "sacrificing" one or two notes at the bottom of the range. And for button players the same holds: when you need three blocks in cassotto it is because the accordion has many notes, including high notes, so you can easily use the L register and play an octave higher, instead of M on the "standard" octave. That Bugari 540 and my Hohner both go up to E7 on the M register, The AKKO goes up to G7 on the M register. On the Bugari I don't even have the M register on a chin switch as you don't use it anyway. It does have L on a chin switch.

 

[saundersbp]

Thanks both for the explanation, I get it now. Much appreciated!