Questions about Titano Palmer Hughes Grand 120 bass

[yaroslav9728]

My hand girth is 19 cm. Does it have any relations to the keyboard length or not, in case of convenience?

 

[Ben-jammin]

My hand girth is 19 cm. Does it have any relations to the keyboard length or not, in case of convenience?

I doubt anyone on here will recommend a keyboard size based on this measurement.

Generally I think most adult accordionist tend to gravitate towards instruments with keyboards between 19” to 20” for 41 treble keys. This is partly because that is a fairly common size for accordions with most of the desired features. Another common size is around 17.25” keyboard per 41 treble keys. Most adults find these keys too narrow. Some adults with narrow fingers can benefit from a narrower keyboard but this will likely limit them to less accordions with many of the desirable features (smaller accordions tend to have less reed sets and other features)

The 18.75” is close enough to the 19” that I think should be viable for any adult without extra wide fingers.

The Titano Grands were well built accordions, but certainly not top of the line Titano offered. Higher end models had hand type or hand made reeds. I bought a Grand because I wanted to try free bass. As has been mentioned some Grands were built to function with both Stradella bass and Quint free bass (switching between each mode through bass register switches). I have the 18.75” keyboard version and I can play it without any issues of keys being narrow. However the slight difference in size from my main accordion is a bit problematic, as I’m used to the specific gap between various intervals. This may be less of a problem in reality than I think, but it has felt counterproductive to switch between accordions of different sizes as I’m actively studying.

The other feature of a Grand that may be undesirable is that for the treble side it has LMH reeds. This a dry tuning that isn’t the best option for many of the types of music accordions frequently play. I personally would prefer an LMM arrangement for a three treble reed sets accordion.

It seems Titano sold quite a few Grands and they seem to be one of the more reasonably priced but yet well built converter bass accordions out there. If you decide you want to study the quint freebass and still have instant access to stradella in a single box it may be one of few options at the price point. If you just looking for a Stradella bass system accordion make sure you really want a dry tuned LMH.

And just to reiterate not all Grands are Converters. Mine doesn’t have “Palmer converter” near the model name but has “converter patent pending” on the rear and the applicable the register options.

 

[yaroslav9728]

I doubt anyone on here will recommend a keyboard size based on this measurement.

Generally I think most adult accordionist tend to gravitate towards instruments with keyboards between 19” to 20” for 41 treble keys. This is partly because that is a fairly common size for accordions with most of the desired features. Another common size is around 17.25” keyboard per 41 treble keys. Most adults find these keys too narrow. Some adults with narrow fingers can benefit from a narrower keyboard but this will likely limit them to less accordions with many of the desirable features (smaller accordions tend to have less reed sets and other features)

The 18.75” is close enough to the 19” that I think should be viable for any adult without extra wide fingers.

The Titano Grands were well built accordions, but certainly not top of the line Titano offered. Higher end models had hand type or hand made reeds. I bought a Grand because I wanted to try free bass. As has been mentioned some Grands were built to function with both Stradella bass and Quint free bass (switching between each mode through bass register switches). I have the 18.75” keyboard version and I can play it without any issues of keys being narrow. However the slight difference in size from my main accordion is a bit problematic, as I’m used to the specific gap between various intervals. This may be less of a problem in reality than I think, but it has felt counterproductive to switch between accordions of different sizes as I’m actively studying.

The other feature of a Grand that may be undesirable is that for the treble side it has LMH reeds. This a dry tuning that isn’t the best option for many of the types of music accordions frequently play. I personally would prefer an LMM arrangement for a three treble reed sets accordion.

It seems Titano sold quite a few Grands and they seem to be one of the more reasonably priced but yet well built converter bass accordions out there. If you decide you want to study the quint freebass and still have instant access to stradella in a single box it may be one of few options at the price point. If you just looking for a Stradella bass system accordion make sure you really want a dry tuned LMH.

And just to reiterate not all Grands are Converters. Mine doesn’t have “Palmer converter” near the model name but has “converter patent pending” on the rear and the applicable the register options.

Personally me, I have accordion with 17" keyboard, and it is not convenient for me, as I am pretty tall (185-186 cm height) and when I try to play thirds in melodies, I always miss and play fourths. So, I want just to change to an instrument with wider keys and more features for growth, as my accordion has only 5 registers on the right hand, and 3 on the left hand.

 

[yaroslav9728]

I doubt anyone on here will recommend a keyboard size based on this measurement.

Generally I think most adult accordionist tend to gravitate towards instruments with keyboards between 19” to 20” for 41 treble keys. This is partly because that is a fairly common size for accordions with most of the desired features. Another common size is around 17.25” keyboard per 41 treble keys. Most adults find these keys too narrow. Some adults with narrow fingers can benefit from a narrower keyboard but this will likely limit them to less accordions with many of the desirable features (smaller accordions tend to have less reed sets and other features)

The 18.75” is close enough to the 19” that I think should be viable for any adult without extra wide fingers.

The Titano Grands were well built accordions, but certainly not top of the line Titano offered. Higher end models had hand type or hand made reeds. I bought a Grand because I wanted to try free bass. As has been mentioned some Grands were built to function with both Stradella bass and Quint free bass (switching between each mode through bass register switches). I have the 18.75” keyboard version and I can play it without any issues of keys being narrow. However the slight difference in size from my main accordion is a bit problematic, as I’m used to the specific gap between various intervals. This may be less of a problem in reality than I think, but it has felt counterproductive to switch between accordions of different sizes as I’m actively studying.

The other feature of a Grand that may be undesirable is that for the treble side it has LMH reeds. This a dry tuning that isn’t the best option for many of the types of music accordions frequently play. I personally would prefer an LMM arrangement for a three treble reed sets accordion.

It seems Titano sold quite a few Grands and they seem to be one of the more reasonably priced but yet well built converter bass accordions out there. If you decide you want to study the quint freebass and still have instant access to stradella in a single box it may be one of few options at the price point. If you just looking for a Stradella bass system accordion make sure you really want a dry tuned LMH.

And just to reiterate not all Grands are Converters. Mine doesn’t have “Palmer converter” near the model name but has “converter patent pending” on the rear and the applicable the register options.

Do they have LMMH configuration?

 

[Ben-jammin]

Do they have LMMH configuration?

Yes, for accordions with four reed sets in the treble the two common options are LMMH and LMMM.

 

[dunlustin]

A query prompted by an earlier post:
Is the Palmer Hughes a Quint convertor rather than a Mirrored C-system?
If so - and if not now - it will be important to know when asking about an instrument.

 

[Ben-jammin]

The Palmer Titano converters are Quint system. I’ve attached an image from my Palmer Hughes free bass method, showing a portion of the layout. I understand this system was developed to ease the transition of a student already familiar with the stradella system. It basically keeps the same fundamental and counter bass as stradella but makes the chord rows additional octaves of the counter and fundamental bass layouts.

 

[dunlustin]

I wanted to make sure the OP was aware.
In Europe the Quint system is vanishingly rare - apart from Galliano's Victoria I don't know of another.

 

[Ben-jammin]

That’s a fair point. My comments about availability and cost probably only apply to the North American market.

I’m not qualified to really compare freebass systems, beyond the perspective of someone that wanted to dabble with freebass that already had an understanding of stradella. Someone that will be pursuing freebass more seriously should do a lot more research than I did with selecting a layout. It’s worth noting that last I knew the Palmer Hughes converter method was no longer in print. I was lucky to get books 1 and 2 used.

 

[John M]

The Palmer Titano converters are Quint system. I’ve attached an image from my Palmer Hughes free bass method, showing a portion of the layout. I understand this system was developed to ease the transition of a student already familiar with the stradella system. It basically keeps the same fundamental and counter bass as stradella but makes the chord rows additional octaves of the counter and fundamental bass layouts.

Thank you so much for that attachment layout showing how the 3 octaves are grouped into 3 pairs of counter and fundamental bass rows. It helped me in setting up my FR-8X, once once I figured out "Quint" = 5, and of the five free bass modes available on the Roland, it is the mode called "Fifth".

I am amazed at all the (new for me) features that I keep finding on the 8X. I just have to keep on "digging".

John M.

 

[Ben-jammin]

Thank you so much for that attachment layout showing how the 3 octaves are grouped into 3 pairs of counter and fundamental bass rows. It helped me in setting up my FR-8X, once once I figured out "Quint" = 5, and of the five free bass modes available on the Roland, it is the mode called "Fifth".

I am amazed at all the (new for me) features that I keep finding on the 8X. I just have to keep on "digging".

John M.

Awesome, I had heard the Roland had a few free bass modes but never heard it confirmed for sure it had a Quint layout (not that I really investigated it). At the moment I can’t justify purchasing one but that’s definitely another point in its favor.

 

[yaroslav9728]

Awesome, I had heard the Roland had a few free bass modes but never heard it confirmed for sure it had a Quint layout (not that I really investigated it). At the moment I can’t justify purchasing one but that’s definitely another point in its favor.

What is the keyboard length of your accordion on your profile picture?

 

[Ben-jammin]

What is the keyboard length of your accordion on your profile picture?

19” it’s a Cold War era East German Weltmeister 3/5 LMM 120 bass. Not a fantastic instrument but I bought it fairly cheap and I use it for occasions where there could be risk to the instrument (such as in my profile pic where I was playing while sailing my boat.)

 

[yaroslav9728]

19” it’s a Cold War era East German Weltmeister 3/5 LMM 120 bass. Not a fantastic instrument but I bought it fairly cheap and I use it for occasions where there could be risk to the instrument (such as in my profile pic where I was playing while sailing my boat.)

What is your height?
Sorry for personal questions?

 

[yaroslav9728]

19” it’s a Cold War era East German Weltmeister 3/5 LMM 120 bass. Not a fantastic instrument but I bought it fairly cheap and I use it for occasions where there could be risk to the instrument (such as in my profile pic where I was playing while sailing my boat.)

Are you comfortable to play melodies with thirds, fourths, etc? Do you miss notes when you try to not look on the keyboard?

 

[yaroslav9728]

19” it’s a Cold War era East German Weltmeister 3/5 LMM 120 bass. Not a fantastic instrument but I bought it fairly cheap and I use it for occasions where there could be risk to the instrument (such as in my profile pic where I was playing while sailing my boat.)

If you want we can talk together in private messages

 

[yaroslav9728]

19” it’s a Cold War era East German Weltmeister 3/5 LMM 120 bass. Not a fantastic instrument but I bought it fairly cheap and I use it for occasions where there could be risk to the instrument (such as in my profile pic where I was playing while sailing my boat.)

How many accordions do you have now?

 

[Ben-jammin]

If you want we can talk together in private messages

I’m a bit shorter than you. I am comfortable playing any keyboard between 18.75” to 19.25” for 41 keys. In that size range I can reliably hit gaps up to about an octave fairly reliable as long as I’m not switching between two sizes, and I’ve been playing that accordion for several hours. Bigger gaps than that I have to look down. To me, height is only a factor to have enough space for an accordion to sit comfortably. I’ve been playing 120 bass accordions with 19” keyboards since I was about 12 years old. If I were you and wanted a 41 key PA I would be looking for the best accordion with a keyboard length around 19” that fits your budget.

 

[Ben-jammin]

How many accordions do you have now?

9 but most of these are needing work.

 

[yaroslav9728]

I’m a bit shorter than you. I am comfortable playing any keyboard between 18.75” to 19.25” for 41 keys. In that size range I can reliably hit gaps up to about an octave fairly reliable as long as I’m not switching between two sizes, and I’ve been playing that accordion for several hours. Bigger gaps than that I have to look down. To me, height is only a factor to have enough space for an accordion to sit comfortably. I’ve been playing 120 bass accordions with 19” keyboards since I was about 12 years old. If I were you and wanted a 41 key PA I would be looking for the best accordion with a keyboard length around 19” that fits your budget.

Are you self-learner or have a teacher?