Right hand question

[Tongle]

I saw a fella on YouTube suggesting that you mainly use thumb index and 2nd finger to play tunes.
He showed how and was VERY impressive.
My initial enquiries however suggested that 5 fingers should be used and scales played just like on piano.
I imagine this may be one of those posts whereby preference is the answer but is there a 'standard' method for right hand?

 

[losthobos]

The french say do this ..the Irish say do that ...classical stipulates this, jazz suggests that....blah de blah...
Don't worry about which fingers you use...so long as they move independently and your heart feels touched you'll be alright...

 

[PhiliGol]

The french say do this ..the Irish say do that ...classical stipulates this, jazz suggests that....blah de blah...
Don't worry about which fingers you use...so long as they move independently and your heart feels touched you'll be alright...

I'd agree there's a lot of "special" techniques and personal flavours.
On a PA you better use all 5 fingers.
A good fingering makes you play a lot easier.

 

[dunlustin]

you don't mention the type of accordion....

 

[Tongle]

Sorry..should have said Piano Accordeon 80 bass I think. I also play melodeon.

 

[JerryPH]

I'd love to see him play 3-note chords... lol
My take? WHY limit yourself? If the good Lord wanted you to play with 2 fingers, he would have removed the other 3.
Someone that's good at playing with 2 fingers *may* look impressive to someone with less experience, but anyone that takes their playing a little more seriously and uses 5 fingers will equally impress you... more.

Have mr. 2 fingers play an arpeggio as fast as they can CLEALNLY, then ask someone with 5 fingers and equal musicality to do the same... you can safely base your decision on that alone.

 

[Ffingers]

I'd love to see him play 3-note chords... lol
My take? WHY limit yourself? If the good Lord wanted you to play with 2 fingers, he would have removed the other 3.
Someone that's good at playing with 2 fingers *may* look impressive to someone with less experience, but anyone that takes their playing a little more seriously and uses 5 fingers will equally impress you... more.

Have mr. 2 fingers play an arpeggio as fast as they can CLEALNLY, then ask someone with 5 fingers and equal musicality to do the same... you can safely base your decision on that alone.

The "good Lord" isn't quite as kindly to some folk as he seems to be to others, in this and many other physical attributes.

 

[JKJ]

All the best advice is on YouTube, right? Some of that musical advice might be better applied to certain types of solo music or when playing in a group.

It would seem difficult (but possible) to practice Hanon exercises on a keyboard without using all 5 fingers (10 for piano)

Seems like fluid fingering would be compromised (have to devise your own fingering when learning from printed music), some chords would have to be simplified, as well as the ability to play some intervals would be limited, especially octaves and larger. I speak from piano experience; beginner at PA.

That said, I knew a tiny 4-year-old girl with tiny hands who played amazing things on the piano. Then I sat next to a guy in 4th grade with three fingers on one hand and two on the other after playing with his dad’s table saw. With that limitation his goal was to learn percussion.

I think the bottom line is learn to play however you want, develop skills as able, have fun at what you do, and never stop making music.

 

[Tongle]

I just Googled Hanon Exercises and got a PDF with 2 hand piano exercises. Are there ones specific for PA or just right hand?
They seem similar to scale exercises I did when learning piano many years ago.

 

[murathan]

Fingers 4 and 5 are anatomically (evolutionally) spare fingers and not work very well in some situations. To do very fast moves accurately, you need to use 1-2-3. It suits some genres of music such as Balkan music. In a not very fast situation and need chords to play on right hand, you can use all 5 fingers. Its the same on piano fingering too. The general approach in education for beginners is of course using 5 fingers. They will be used but not in very fast moves.

 

[losthobos]

Have mr. 2 fingers play an arpeggio as fast as they can CLEALNLY, then ask someone with 5 fingers and equal musicality to do the same... you can safely base your decision on that alone.

Best not mention that to Django Reinhardt....

 

[JerryPH]

Best not mention that to Django Reinhardt....

. Big difference between playing with 2 out of 5 good fingers vs using 3 out of 3 good functioning fingers... lol

 

[JKJ]

I just Googled Hanon Exercises and got a PDF with 2 hand piano exercises. Are there ones specific for PA or just right hand?
They seem similar to scale exercises I did when learning piano many years ago.

I’ve been using Hanon books for piano for decades, both hands at once. However, when I had a left arm injury, and when starting on the right-hand only melodica and PA keyboards, I just used the right hand exercises and ignored the left hand part. Since the exercises use all fingers on the r hand for both up and down the keyboard you get the full benefit for that hand.

 

[Ric46]

I saw a fella on YouTube suggesting that you mainly use thumb index and 2nd finger to play tunes.
He showed how and was VERY impressive.
My initial enquiries however suggested that 5 fingers should be used and scales played just like on piano.
I imagine this may be one of those posts whereby preference is the answer but is there a 'standard' method for right hand?

I have never played PA accordion, but you use all your fingers on the piano. Of course, it doesn't mean always using all of them from the beginning to the end of the piece. It depends. The 4th and 5th fingers are weaker and need to be practiced more. At first, using three fingers seems easier, a shortcut, but in the end, it is not. Always in my opinion, of course

 

[Dingo40]

Have a look at Valter Losi in Ric's
other post today: all five r/h fingers working away!
See here:

R

Thread 'Valter Losi not only liscio (boogie)'

Aug 28, 2024

but the use of the bellow is quite similar...

• Ric46
• Replies: 9
• Forum: I Like That!

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[debra]

It's all a matter of what works best for you. The 4rd finger is generally less mobile than the first 3 and the 5th is less powerful (and a lot shorter) too... There are many accordion teachers (and methods) that recommend using the same fingering on PA as on piano (and the teachers do so because that's also how they learned it decades ago). However, the hand-versus-keyboard position is not the same. I have learnt to play both the piano and piano accordion and especially with higher notes I have started using different fingering for each. On CBA it's also the same: different fingering in the higher octaves than in lower octaves.

 

[JerryPH]

It would seem difficult (but possible) to practice Hanon exercises on a keyboard without using all 5 fingers (10 for piano)

... or 9 fingers using Free Bass for most (some can get all 10 with the right accordion).

I think the bottom line is learn to play however you want, develop skills as able, have fun at what you do, and never stop making music.

Bingo!
I think the point was that if you have 5 healthy and capable fingers, there is little VALID reason to limit yourself to 2-3.

 

[JKJ]

. The 4th and 5th fingers are weaker and need to be practiced more.

Yes sir to the wise "practice more" advice. As per Mr T, "I pity the fool" who challenges this old guy to the childish hand squeezing macho strength contest. This old guy, with 60 years of 10-fingered piano, so many hours of Hanon, so many more hours of sometimes intense classical pieces that with months of practice couldn't help but build strength in every finger. My piano teachers were insistent that the "weaker" fingers were exercised to match the others.

At 74 I am indeed slowing a little but I'm still waiting for my L shoulder to heal enough to operate the accordion bellows so the fingers can learn the new walk. (The surgeon continues to say "patience, patience.")

BTW, those hand/finger strength exercisers are great for maintenance. Can squeeze with the whole hand or just selected fingers. I have this set:

Loading...

www.amazon.com

JKJ

 

[Ric46]

It's all a matter of what works best for you.

The 4rd finger is generally less mobile than the first 3 and the 5th is less powerful (and a lot shorter) too... There are many accordion teachers (and methods) that recommend using the same fingering on PA as on piano (and the teachers do so because that's also how they learned it decades ago).

However, the hand-versus-keyboard position is not the same. I have learnt to play both the piano and piano accordion and especially with higher notes I have started using different fingering for each. On CBA it's also the same: different fingering in the higher octaves than in lower octaves.

Yes sir to the wise "practice more" advice. As per Mr T, "I pity the fool" who challenges this old guy to the childish hand squeezing macho strength contest. This old guy, with 60 years of 10-fingered piano, so many hours of Hanon, so many more hours of sometimes intense classical pieces that with months of practice couldn't help but build strength in every finger. My piano teachers were insistent that the "weaker" fingers were exercised to match the others.

At 74 I am indeed slowing a little but I'm still waiting for my L shoulder to heal enough to operate the accordion bellows so the fingers can learn the new walk. (The surgeon continues to say "patience, patience.")

BTW, those hand/finger strength exercisers are great for maintenance. Can squeeze with the whole hand or just selected fingers. I have this set:

Loading...

www.amazon.com

JKJ

I hope you can recover soon with your shoulder

 

[JKJ]

The 4rd finger is generally less mobile than the first 3 and the 5th is less powerful

There are evidently physiological reasons for this. Look up “mobility of 4th finger” or “ring” finger and discover the fascinating reason.

I learned about this inherent physical limitation early in my piano lessons. My teacher explained and said that was the reason for more practice! And she was right.

I didn’t research it carefully today but if I remember correctly, the problem is the way the nerves, muscles, and tendons are interconnected. Finger 4 is the biggest problem - I think I was told that to independently lift the 4th finger the brain has to send signals to the muscles that lift several fingers, then at the same time, counter that by telling the non-4th fingers to stay down. Yikes.

Also, I read once that only a very small percentage of people are born with an extra muscle or tendon (can’t remember the details, it was a half century ago) but regardless, there is still hope for the rest of us - we just have to work overtime to get good use from the 4th finger! I refuse to use the physical limitation as an excuse. (However, it does kind of make me wonder if some of the most famous virtuosos in the world the were born with the extra equipment. Or maybe they simply worked harder.)

There is much on the internet about exercising the fingers. Here is the first one I saw:


For me, the biggest problem to overcome was performing a key trill with the 3rd and 4th fingers, and worse, between the 4th and 5th fingers. It’s still not as easy for me as trilling the 2nd and 3rd but did get faster and easier after years of practice. (Easier for me with the right hand than the left.) To this day I still do a lot of finger exercises, riding in a car, while reading, etc.

Such finger exercise and practice also helped me with the trumpet, horn, and guitar (and typewriter/keyboard), and although I don’t play sax, oboe, etc, I suspect they have similar exercises.

Perhaps all this is one reason a teacher may suggest playing with just 3 fingers. That would avoid the need for the all that silly extra exercise and practice.

JKJ