Roland FC-7 pedal unit substitute?

[PetrH]

I have gone both the DIY FC-7 route and created my own midi controller for the BK-7m. The DIY FC-7 is by far the easiest way to do things. It's seven stomp box switches in a box. The hardest part is soldering the wires to the 8 pin DIN connector because those terminals are SMALL!
The midi functionality needed to control the BK7m in the same way as the physical switch box (real or diy FC7) is beyond the capabilities of the FCB-1010. For example. with the physical switch pedal, one switch controls both start and stop. To do that with a midi based foot pedal requires some intelligence in the pedal to change the switch mode. You can either do that blindly. IE, just switch modes when the switch is pressed, or try to determine the play state of the BK7m by listening for midi messages from the BK7m.

As you can probably guess, this requires some sort of computer or micro processor and a good deal of programming. I used an 3.3 voltArduino Nano for the microprocessor and a CME WIDI module for the midi and powered it all from a small lipo battery.
Generally it worked but the wireless midi would drop the connection from time to time. Wired would be better but then yoiu'd need a midi merge somewhere to combine the pedal's midi with that from the accordion. With the wireless stuff I used the widi jack receiver on the BK7m as the master for a group so it did the merging.

I ripped the guts out of a FC-100 foot pedal and built my own foot controller with switches left over for other things, never got that far though).

More info than anyone cares about can be found here https://abuskinglife.wordpress.com/ Just keep scrolling down!

OMG this project is on my list now too Thx a lot - BTW I use CME WIDI Thru 6 to connect my ipad (and other capable synths) to my master chain of the studio. Yes, now also FR8-X as the latest instrument (well not last as more will come) . Works like a charm - master MIDI In is from master keyboard (Waldorf Iridium keyboard synth) while BT is used for iPad synths and instruments. Yes, love WIDI stuff so much now

The WIDI Project – More gear and other stuff…​

 

[PetrH]

So to sum it up - yes, I was lucky again and I found FC-7 for a reasonable price. Now it's on the way to my home, so I'll endup with:
- FR-8x IN connected with FC-300 and FR-8X set tu "FC-300" pedal - this will be for accordion only manipulation
- FR-8x OUT to BK-7m while BK set to "accordion"
- BK-7m connected to FC-7 to command BK-7

Yep, this was the reason I finnaly got FR-8x over 4x - 2 midi DIN slots - well, the main reason was that I play only full size accordions. Even I have a small and medium Welmaister and Honner I always go back to full size due to playing style.

So, thx to all - will perhaps incorporate WIDI - but more iportantly I'll get BOSS WL-20L for wireless audio - this will allow me both BK-7m and my home studio just simply swap the output module and move it.

BTW WIDI Master is amazing - direcly playing my iPad massive synths collection but also already sent signal to my studio and UVI augmented orchestra - accordion sounds SO AMAZING

 

[ChrisH]

As you can probably guess, this requires some sort of computer or micro processor and a good deal of programming.

.... or you can do it the easy way with a MIDI Solutions Events Processor...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjO1YSntdWEAxXtTEEAHQnwAeoQFnoECBAQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmidisolutions.com%2Fprodevp.htm&usg=AOvVaw21aeHTcZK2j3XBNTQJDYlD&opi=89978449

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

Without getting into details, making the bk7m operate the same with midi as it does with the fc7 foot switch is beyond the capabilities of those event processors.

 

[ChrisH]

Without getting into details, making the bk7m operate the same with midi as it does with the fc7 foot switch is beyond the capabilities of those event processors.

Agreed... as I and others said earlier the available FC7 functions don't all have corresponding MIDI commands, but the event processors are by far the simplest way to sort out most midi interface problems.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

.... or you can do it the easy way with a MIDI Solutions Events Processor...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjO1YSntdWEAxXtTEEAHQnwAeoQFnoECBAQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmidisolutions.com%2Fprodevp.htm&usg=AOvVaw21aeHTcZK2j3XBNTQJDYlD&opi=89978449

I’m a big fan of the Event Processor, and it performs many functions for me, but taking the place of the FC7 is NOT one of them. The FC7 doesn’t send MIDI messages and, AFAIK, the BK7m isn’t designed to have MIDI messages perform what the FC7 triggers.

 

[JerryPH]

I’m a big fan of the Event Processor, and it performs many functions for me, but taking the place of the FC7 is NOT one of them. The FC7 doesn’t send MIDI messages and, AFAIK, the BK7m isn’t designed to have MIDI messages perform what the FC7 triggers.

Right the pedal controls on the BK are only momentary switches for 7 options (8 if you include the "performance next" feature). Thats the:
- start/stop
- intro activation
- ending activation
- the 4 variations/drum fills
- (as mentioned) to move to the next song in the performance list, called "performance next" option.

No MIDI involved at all.

 

[dak]

Right the pedal controls on the BK are only momentary switches for 7 options (8 if you include the "performance next" feature). Thats the:
- start/stop
- intro activation
- ending activation
- the 4 variations/drum fills
- (as mentioned) to move to the next song in the performance list, called "performance next" option.

No MIDI involved at all.

The Ketron MS40/50/60/80/100 family (and likely other models as well) allow you to send all button presses via MIDI, and the foot pedals (which are just switches on a Sub-D connector) essentially are all assigned to buttons as well (apart from things like sustain pedal, but that has MIDI events of its own). So once you enable the reception of button presses via MIDI in the menus, you can use a MIDI-sending pedal for operations, of course at the cost of using up the MIDI IN connection.

What I used that functionality for is copying out each built-in style into user memory and then writing it out on floppy by running a program on my computer. It would be inconvenient to do this manually for 100 styles (and I actually have one MS40 with 8 different banks of styles).

Quite handy. No idea if the BK-7M would offer a similar feature.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

When controlling the BK7m with midi each variation has it's own midi command to select it. Each variation also has three different fills although there are only three different midi commands for those, not twelve thankfully. The midi fill selection command applies to the currently selected variation. You also have to consider if the device is playing or not as the behavior changes.
You can listen to the midi messages from the BK7m to figure out what state the device is in or to detect changes done by pressing the buttons on the BK7m so that you can keep your pedal's state engine in line with the real state of the BK7m but I found that, using wireless midi at least, it added too much traffic to the bluetooth connection. I went with a blind pedal and just don't touch the buttons on the BK7m once the pedal is connected rule which worked quite well.
You could use wired midi but then that just defeats the whole point of using midi I think, plus you need a merger somewhere in the system to merge the accordion midi with that from the pedal. With the CME WIDI stuff I used the widi jack on the BK7m as a master so it aced as a merger for the midi from the pedal and the accordion.

I will say that in the end I reverted to my diy FC7 pedal rather than the wireless midi pedal I made. I liked the wireless pedal as it was smaller, offered the potential for more function and did not have to be right next to the BK7m but I did find it unreliable at times. That could be down to my shitty soldering and/or breadboard construction for the circuit though!

 

[PetrH]

When controlling the BK7m with midi each variation has it's own midi command to select it. Each variation also has three different fills although there are only three different midi commands for those, not twelve thankfully. The midi fill selection command applies to the currently selected variation. You also have to consider if the device is playing or not as the behavior changes.
You can listen to the midi messages from the BK7m to figure out what state the device is in or to detect changes done by pressing the buttons on the BK7m so that you can keep your pedal's state engine in line with the real state of the BK7m but I found that, using wireless midi at least, it added too much traffic to the bluetooth connection. I went with a blind pedal and just don't touch the buttons on the BK7m once the pedal is connected rule which worked quite well.
You could use wired midi but then that just defeats the whole point of using midi I think, plus you need a merger somewhere in the system to merge the accordion midi with that from the pedal. With the CME WIDI stuff I used the widi jack on the BK7m as a master so it aced as a merger for the midi from the pedal and the accordion.

I will say that in the end I reverted to my diy FC7 pedal rather than the wireless midi pedal I made. I liked the wireless pedal as it was smaller, offered the potential for more function and did not have to be right next to the BK7m but I did find it unreliable at times. That could be down to my shitty soldering and/or breadboard construction for the circuit though!

Thank you, I hope will receive FC7 Tomorrow so will try the full circe - however I was thinking more about WIDI and tried - but will stay with cables. No plan now to go on road so no needs for another widi traffic. I use it for iPad and will keep using WIDI Master for commanding my studio and iPad and yes, if iPad will be my recording engine then cables are cables

 

[JerryPH]

if iPad will be my recording engine then cables are cables

The ipad could be the recording device using garage band easily enough, but routing things then gets a little more complex. The ipad would then need to be:
- the displayer of the music
- capture MIDI to and from the ipad
- receive DAC data from audio interface connected to the ipad the audio interface would need to be at least 4 channel/multitrack available
- likely need to be connected to a powered hub so that it could power the iPad and hub if that is class compliant

I prefer to capture audio to a separate computer/daw for best control, just because I have all the available equipment, and I do it all wirelessly so I can walk around without being tethered to anything.

Still, as a challenge, it sounds very interesting... now imagine if you used the Blackmagic camera app, you could addd the final touch... recording to an external SSD capturing the audio/video in ProRes 422HQ.

It's little challenges like this that inspire me just thinking about it.

 

[PetrH]

Thank you - iPad Air M1 connected via USB-C to hub where I have Tascam 16-08 sound card that processes all signals and via USB-C back to iPad where I use AUM mainly or Cubasis. Garageband isn’t bad as it’s free however I prefere much more advanced processing and even I use Logic Pro as main DAW on iPad I refused to pay monthly fees.

Yes, my old MacBook Pro is another option to consider if iPad fail - will see; in till this moment I use iPad Air M1 with keybord/touchpad cover for all my daily tasks as IT professional including producing track there (AUM + Grand Finale 2 for mastering)