Hello Serge,
I'm sorry, I can't check, I've already closed everything.
However I think it is necessary to remove the panel behind the keyboard to access the other end of the cables (I only removed the buttons register panel).
Last edited:
Roland FR1X fault with treble buttons
- Thread starter Colin L
- Start date
I'm sorry, I can't check, I've already closed everything.
However I think it is necessary to remove the panel behind the keyboard to access the other end of the cables (I only removed the buttons register panel).
Colin L
Newbie
Hi Serge, Following above advice I am now inside and can see where the ribbons join the board. How do I disconnect the ribbon? It seems firmly attached. Is it just finger and thumb and pull upwards away from the board?
Attachments
Hi Colin,
I'm no expert, I just did some research on the web, so take this information with a grain of salt and proceed with caution.
Ribbon cable connectors usually have a locking system, but on my fr1x they don't (yours looks the same).
So I just gently pulled the cables away and then reinserted them.
(Could it be the lack of a locking system on the connectors that makes the problem so common?)
Colin, if your fr1x is still open maybe you can answer the questions Serge asked me:
"Hello Gap,
Considering your 5 buttons problem, only the larg Ribbon cable should be concerned.
You were lucky that it was on the AMP board side.
Could you see if the other side of the cables could easily be unconnected and reconnected ?
Could you also see if the 3rd cable between the 2 Keyboard PCBs could easily be accessed and reconnected ?
(this cable may have to be reconnected if a group of keys on the first 2 rows (thumb side) was not operating anymore...."
"Hello Gap,
Considering your 5 buttons problem, only the larg Ribbon cable should be concerned.
You were lucky that it was on the AMP board side.
Could you see if the other side of the cables could easily be unconnected and reconnected ?
Could you also see if the 3rd cable between the 2 Keyboard PCBs could easily be accessed and reconnected ?
(this cable may have to be reconnected if a group of keys on the first 2 rows (thumb side) was not operating anymore...."
Ventura
Been here for ages!
on my Korg i5m arranger and keyboard units, they also use a stiff flat ribbon
to connect the floppy drive to the mainboard.. it is also just a push-in type
with just the pressure from the contacts being "squeezed" that holds it in
i have never had one come loose (though i have changed out floppy drives}
they have held well and the units (i have 4 of them) have been bounced\
plenty of times, so i believe the engineering on these connections is robust.
the other factor is lingering impurities that were not removed completely
during the manufacturing process, such as chlorides, which under certain
conditions (heat, humidity) can become active and cause an open circuit
through a deterioration of the connection. Simple oxidation of the copper
surface can also sometimes be the culprit..
this is why we look closely for discolorations and granular oddities around
chips and connection points with a strong magnifying glass and bright
shop-light when troubleshooting such problem
removing and re-inserting connections of various type sometimes solves
these issues, as the squeeze and sliding of the connection can clean enough
of the interfering stuff to again make the connection electrically firm, but
it is also good, if you find something visible, to try and carefully physically clean
it off, or judiciously use de-oxidizing spray, or even distilled water carefully
applied when you are sure conditions are good to dry things completely
before you re-assemble and test
(rinse moisture can hide under components and linger)
one gotcha is that these ribbon cables are often only cut "long enough"
with very little slack, and can be tricky to work with, and even easily
pulled back out when you twist and turn the sections trying to re-assemble
also, photographs taken as you go through dis-assembly can be helpful
to remind you which way something is turned or angled when re-assembling..
some of us have more trouble than others remembering those sort of details..
i know i always do a brake-job on one side at a time so i can walk around
the Van to the other wheel and look at it as a reference !
to connect the floppy drive to the mainboard.. it is also just a push-in type
with just the pressure from the contacts being "squeezed" that holds it in
i have never had one come loose (though i have changed out floppy drives}
they have held well and the units (i have 4 of them) have been bounced\
plenty of times, so i believe the engineering on these connections is robust.
the other factor is lingering impurities that were not removed completely
during the manufacturing process, such as chlorides, which under certain
conditions (heat, humidity) can become active and cause an open circuit
through a deterioration of the connection. Simple oxidation of the copper
surface can also sometimes be the culprit..
this is why we look closely for discolorations and granular oddities around
chips and connection points with a strong magnifying glass and bright
shop-light when troubleshooting such problem
removing and re-inserting connections of various type sometimes solves
these issues, as the squeeze and sliding of the connection can clean enough
of the interfering stuff to again make the connection electrically firm, but
it is also good, if you find something visible, to try and carefully physically clean
it off, or judiciously use de-oxidizing spray, or even distilled water carefully
applied when you are sure conditions are good to dry things completely
before you re-assemble and test
(rinse moisture can hide under components and linger)
one gotcha is that these ribbon cables are often only cut "long enough"
with very little slack, and can be tricky to work with, and even easily
pulled back out when you twist and turn the sections trying to re-assemble
also, photographs taken as you go through dis-assembly can be helpful
to remind you which way something is turned or angled when re-assembling..
some of us have more trouble than others remembering those sort of details..
i know i always do a brake-job on one side at a time so i can walk around
the Van to the other wheel and look at it as a reference !
Colin L
Newbie
Hello Colin,
Well done ! you did it !
To complete the knowledge...
did you only reconnect the cable(s) on the main AMP PCB ?
did you see if it was easy to reconnect the other side of the cables (under the Keyboard PCB) ?
and did you see if it was easy to reconnect the cable between the 2 keyboard PCBs ?
Happy that I could help you solving your issue !
Serge
Well done ! you did it !
To complete the knowledge...
did you only reconnect the cable(s) on the main AMP PCB ?
did you see if it was easy to reconnect the other side of the cables (under the Keyboard PCB) ?
and did you see if it was easy to reconnect the cable between the 2 keyboard PCBs ?
Happy that I could help you solving your issue !
Serge
Colin L
Newbie
While awaiting advice on how to disconnect the 22 ribbon as there's no flap to lifton the connector, I just gave it a little push down onto the PCB board. I didn't feel any movement or looseness but just incase I put the batteries in and lo and behold it came back to life!
I didn't try anything else. It's just one big computer in there, wires, more wires and PCB boards and yet on the outside it's an accordion
Hello,
This was sufficient to establish again a good contact...
If it happens again, it is better to unconnect and reconnect ....
to complete the view, it has to be known that there are 2 boards with Treble keys.
1 board on thumb side with 2 rows of keys (vertical)
1 board on register buttons side with 3 rows of keys
these 2 boards are connected using a 20 wires cable (I will call it cable C)
The 3 rows board is connected to the Amp board using 2 cables :
1 larg one with 22 wires (cable A)
1 thin one with 16 wires (cable B)
my understanding is :
if a group of keys among the first 2 rows does not operate correctly, you probably have a bad contact on cable B or cable C connectors.
if a group of keys among the next 3 rows does not operate correctly, you probably have a bad contact on cable A connectors.
I think that this may help other users ...
have a nice evening...
Serge
sad day ... France just lost against Spain ... :-(
This was sufficient to establish again a good contact...
If it happens again, it is better to unconnect and reconnect ....
to complete the view, it has to be known that there are 2 boards with Treble keys.
1 board on thumb side with 2 rows of keys (vertical)
1 board on register buttons side with 3 rows of keys
these 2 boards are connected using a 20 wires cable (I will call it cable C)
The 3 rows board is connected to the Amp board using 2 cables :
1 larg one with 22 wires (cable A)
1 thin one with 16 wires (cable B)
my understanding is :
if a group of keys among the first 2 rows does not operate correctly, you probably have a bad contact on cable B or cable C connectors.
if a group of keys among the next 3 rows does not operate correctly, you probably have a bad contact on cable A connectors.
I think that this may help other users ...
have a nice evening...
Serge
sad day ... France just lost against Spain ... :-(
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Ventura
Been here for ages!
merci beaucoup Serge, for analyzing and explaining the cabling
and 2-1
je suis désolé for your Soccer team !
and 2-1
je suis désolé for your Soccer team !
nbabich
Newbie
OMG, I had the same issue and your instructions helped me so much!
I screwed out the register panel and moved a little the ribbon cables, first and second one too. Unfortunately, in my case it did not help.
After this I figured out that I need second ends of the ribbon cables and I screwed out seven screws on the back side of the griff and then - it is important - with unscrewed register panel - unscrew also four screws inside that block the keyboard. After this I was able to flip the keyboard and move second ends of the ribbon cables. And boom - it works!
I screwed out the register panel and moved a little the ribbon cables, first and second one too. Unfortunately, in my case it did not help.
After this I figured out that I need second ends of the ribbon cables and I screwed out seven screws on the back side of the griff and then - it is important - with unscrewed register panel - unscrew also four screws inside that block the keyboard. After this I was able to flip the keyboard and move second ends of the ribbon cables. And boom - it works!
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