Roland (FR1x, probably all) Musette Detune values in cents?

[Ed S]

I'm using a Roland FR1xb as a starting point to help me eventually look for my "perfect";-) acoustic accordion.
It has a "Musette Detune" setting with presets for "Dry", "American L", "Italian H", "Scottish", etc. - there are 15 possible values.

Does anyone know what the values (in cents) of these presets are?
Because there are so many, I suspect some of them are asymmetric - but maybe not.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

I can't comment on the fr1xb, but as the owner of an fr-3s and accordion tuning software, this is what I measure at A4 (assuming you are asking about MMM since you mentioned asymmetric tunings):

2: -10 -5 0
3: -17 -6 +6
4: -12 -6 +1
5: -14 -6 +2
6: -16 -5 +6
7: -18 -5 +8
8: -20 -5 +10
9: -20 -5 +10
10: -20 -5 +10
11: -21 -5 +10
12: -23 -6 +11
13: -27 -6 +16
14: -29 -6 +17
15: -32 -6 +21

I didn't include 1 because the "reeds" were too close together to measure. I acquired this Roland recently and was planning to use it for the same purpose: as a tuning reference for clients, however, these numbers raise some questions. Why is everything 5-6 cents flat? I checked the tuning setting, and it is at 440, and the tuner is set at 440. I know these are designed to bend the pitch down somewhat with increased bellows pressure to simulate a physical reed, but I was only applying light pressure. Why is 3 wetter than 4-6? I checked other notes, and it is consistently wetter than the next few numbers. Why are 8-11 essentially the same, only to get a little wetter on 12 and then much wetter on 13? I'd be interested to know if later Rolands have results that make more sense.

 

[Ed S]

Thanks! Though as you note, this is all very puzzling.

Just to help check if we're comparing apples to apples, the settings on the FR1xb are named:

0=no detune, 1=Dry, 2=Classic, 3=F-Folk, 4=American L, 5=American_H, 6=North Eur, 7=German L
8=D-Folk L, 9=Italian L, 10=German H, 11=Alpine, 12=Italian H, 13=D-Folk H, 14=French, 15=Scottish

If you're interested in chasing it a bit more, it might be useful to measure the Musette register set to "Dry"=1.
Also, you might want to see if a single-reed "Clarinet" is at 440.
Finally, checking the double reed "Celeste" and/or "Tremolo" registers might yield insight.

 

[wirralaccordion]

Thanks! Though as you note, this is all very puzzling.

Just to help check if we're comparing apples to apples, the settings on the FR1xb are named:

0=no detune, 1=Dry, 2=Classic, 3=F-Folk, 4=American L, 5=American_H, 6=North Eur, 7=German L
8=D-Folk L, 9=Italian L, 10=German H, 11=Alpine, 12=Italian H, 13=D-Folk H, 14=French, 15=Scottish

If you're interested in chasing it a bit more, it might be useful to measure the Musette register set to "Dry"=1.
Also, you might want to see if a single-reed "Clarinet" is at 440.
Finally, checking the double reed "Celeste" and/or "Tremolo" registers might yield insight.

Are these names defined by the difference between M- and M+ which is 53 cents for Scottish and what difference does M make whether it is -6 cents, 0 cents or even missing altogether ( as per a MM accordion rather than a MMM accordion )?
Just curious.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Are these names defined by the difference between M- and M+ which is 53 cents for Scottish and what difference does M make whether it is -6 cents, 0 cents or even missing altogether ( as per a MM accordion rather than a MMM accordion )?
Just curious.

The middle reed should be at 0, and the + and - reeds should be ideally be symmetrical. Others may disagree, but in my opinion the main reason to have + and - different distances from the middle reed is in the case of an accordion with several musette registers, offering differing combinations of the 3 M reeds and different levels of wetness. This is not an issue on a digital accordion. The middle reed provides a centering effect, so an MMM tuned -15 0 +15 is going to sound less dissonant than an MM with a 30 cent musette. True, when you are talking about an extremely wet Scottish tuning, no one will likely notice if the whole thing is 6 cents flat on average.

 

[Ed S]

Are these names defined by the difference between M- and M+ which is 53 cents for Scottish and what difference does M make whether it is -6 cents, 0 cents or even missing altogether ( as per a MM accordion rather than a MMM accordion )?
Just curious.

The names are from the Roland manual. For a different set of names, you might want to look at the Liberty Bellows video.

Could be wrong, but I've always assumed that for acoustic accordions "0 cents" is considered to be precisely an octave above the L reed. In the case of a Roland, and as David wrote above, it can be considered to be whatever the accordion is set to via the "Master Tune" setting, which defaults to A4 = 440Hz.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Just to help check if we're comparing apples to apples, the settings on the FR1xb are named:

0=no detune, 1=Dry, 2=Classic, 3=F-Folk, 4=American L, 5=American_H, 6=North Eur, 7=German L
8=D-Folk L, 9=Italian L, 10=German H, 11=Alpine, 12=Italian H, 13=D-Folk H, 14=French, 15=Scottish

Yes, the manual for the fr-3s uses these same names

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Also, you might want to see if a single-reed "Clarinet" is at 440.

A single reed A4 on my Roland ranges from -3 with slight air pressure to -6 at greater air pressure. The low bassoon reeds are even worse, dipping down beyond -20 at a higher air pressure. I know Roland was trying to model the natural tendency of reeds to go down slightly in pitch at higher volume, but it seems they overdid it. I guess the thing to do would be to set the Roland's base tuning to A441 in order to be more in tune.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Because there are so many, I suspect some of them are asymmetric - but maybe not.

So, it seems the answer is that they are all symmetric, just that everything is about 6 cents flat. Since I rounded everything off to the nearest cent, any apparent asymmetry is a rounding error.