Shoulder to strap on!

[maugein96]

OK, you go to your first lesson and your tutor tells you that it's up to you how many shoulder straps you use. You are shown that you can get by with only the right strap, with the base of the accordion resting on your knees. It is explained by using this method you have greater control of the bass side and are not restricted in your left arm movement by a left shoulder strap.

You are also shown that you don't actually need any shoulder straps at all if you support the accordion entirely on your knees.

Your second hand accordion already has two shoulder straps which you had to pay extra to have fitted, so what do you do?

Very few teachers will teach you to play standing, so why did you pay extra for the shoulder straps when you bought the accordion?

For a small to medium accordion, provided you only play seated, the right shoulder strap will suffice. I've tried it and it does free your left arm to give more control of the bass side. It probably would not be suitable for the big 5 voice jobs and the free bass players, but then I don't know anything about such instruments.

Looking forward to hearing your views on this!

 

[george garside]

for what its worth I strongly aadvocate the use of 2 carefully adjusted straps on all boxes from 2 row 8 bass 'melodeon/button accordion up to 120 bass. I can't see ho a left hand strap can effect the bass playing and lack of a right hand strap could result in the keyboard moving in unison ith the bellows!! using only a right hand strap will require the palm of the hand against the edge of the keyboard 'cos a single right hand strap will effectively only work in one direction etc etc

george

 

[simonking]

OK, you go to your first lesson and your tutor tells you that it's up to you how many shoulder straps you use...

Find a new teacher straight away.... You need two shoulder straps - one on the left and a longer one on the right. Anything else just doesn't work properly! Should be obvious why....

 

[maugein96]

Hi George,

I've seen a few French accordionists with instruments up to 120 bass playing seated with only the right shoulder strap fitted, although they were playing in a seated position.

Also, the Italian virtuoso, Wolmer Beltrami, regularly played a CBA in a seated position with no shoulder straps at all.

Maybe it's like riding a bike with one hand, or no hands at all. Some people can do it effortlessly, but most of us prefer to hold on to both handlebars.

I found that using the single right shoulder strap only takes a bit of getting used to, but the left arm is given more scope to control the bellows. Then again, I'm not a pro player or a teacher.

I was just keen to find out what professionals and teachers like yourself thought about the notion of doing away with one or both shoulder straps. I also didn't think this option would apply to PA players with full sized 41 treble key instruments, but was curious nevertheless.

Thanks for the input.

 

[debra]

The main point of the straps is to immobilize the keyboard side of the accordion to give you the best bellows control with your left arm. There are special harnesses for this, but two shoulder straps plus a back strap across works well for me. (I can play without back strap but then the shoulder straps need to be tighter and I find that uncomfortable.) The Hohner Morino N and S series have often been criticized for their "curtain rod" bracket design that does not keep the straps in place well enough and many Morinos have had "normal" brackets installed to attach the straps to.
Older CBA players tended to not use their thumb on the keyboard. With the thumb behind the keyboard your right hand can help to keep the keyboard side from sliding towards the right and then you can get away with just one (left) strap, but it is not ideal. Playing without any straps is just a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

I find the smaller size accordions want more stabilising from the straps than the larger types . Probably all depends on one's shape and height. Those small boxes, where the straps have to climb up to the shoulders when the instrument is rested on the player's lap can only be stable when hoisted up onto one's chest. The larger /heavier models sit solidly on the lap and the straps which run horizontally from the top of the case to the shoulders provide plenty of stability.

I tried a test this morning because I notice that the straps on my heavier models sometimes appear to be doing very little... tried with out the left and then with out the right strap... ok they do quite a bit but much of the stability appears to come from weight too.

 

[maugein96]

Funny how we older types start to look for smaller lighter instruments in the belief that they will be more suitable for us. I have two full sized 120 bass instruments, and one of them weighs a ton. Yet, as you say, it is by far the most stable of the four accordions I own, as I normally only play seated at home.

My Maugein Mini Sonora is a compact 96 bass model which doesn't quite reach my knees, and interestingly, it is the only instrument I have which is fitted with a back strap. Presumably the previous owner found one necessary, as it does tend to bounce around a bit.

My little Hohner Nova Fun light could do with two straps on each shoulder, as it seems as though it wants to float into space on the rare occasions I play it standing.

Maybe the guy you know who plays his instrument like a gunslinger has a secret to tell. That secret might be "Get it off your chest!" If you think that every time you breath you are moving the accordion back and forwards in front of you, and your arms are constantly having to adjust to where the relative keyboards are. Stop that involuntary movement and everything should be steadier, or so my theory goes. I'm probably way off the mark, as they haven't been making left shoulder straps for all that time just to bin them!

 

[Pianoman1]

Newbie hear say 2 straps and a backstrap if you can use it

 

[george garside]

its not just the weight of a box that matters as far as ease of playing/handling goes. There are two other factors to take into account. The most important is the quality of the reeds AND the way they are set up as far as response is concerned. This is also related to the quality of the box as those lower down the pecking order tend to have less responsive reeds.

As aan example I have a well used but reasonable quality casali 12x4 48 bass 3 voice. It is in what I would call good playable condition. I also have a 96 bass 4 voice hohner gaelic in immaculate condition with the reeds set up by a top Scottish reedman to give a perfect response. the heavier Gaelic feels much lighter and requires far less energy than the OK casali because so little effort is required on the bellows to make the reeds sing brightly!


george

 

[acordiansam]

As a beginer the box should hold its self in place. Last thing you want is to have to hold the box and play it. It should hold its self in place. That way all you have to do is play it with no other worries.

My vote, at least 2 and maybe a back strap also.

 

[george garside]

My vote, at least 2 and maybe a back strap also.

agreed and as wide and as well padded as you can afford! Wide padded straps dont makethe accordion any lighter but thet do make it feel a lot lighter!

george

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Whilst the wide straps on my 120 bass are very comfortable and yes they make the instrument appear lighter, the width makes them press on my neck and causes some discomfort.

Maugein96... my local Gunslinger style player is a thumb on the end of the keyboard type.. so perhaps he gets enough stability from that and has probably been playing that way for 30 or 40 years, but I will study his stability next time I see him.

I had a Maugein Mini Sonora and found the 96 bass size was best played standing up. The position of the strap anchorages and the tone chamber bulge on the back face tended to allow a pivoting motion on change of bellows direction which disturbed me, as a beginner, the right hand keyboard going away and coming back to me all the time. No amount of straps would change that short of moving the anchor brackets further away from the players body.

 

[maugein96]

The Mini Sonora is a bit of a swine until you get used to it, and I would agree that it is definitely not a beginners instrument. When you put the straps on it sometimes feels as though you are playing at sea, especially if your BMI is trying to match your age, like mine is. It probably was designed to be played standing up, although I find if Im seated quite low it just about rests on my knee. Probably doesnt do my back any good, but I rarely play standing up for very long.

The tone chamber bulge appears to have been designed to make it just that bit more of a challenge to play than normal, and I dont think it is one of Maugeins best efforts. The previous version was called the Mini Basson, and from memory it had a bigger body shell than the Sonora. I suppose they have done a commendable job fitting everything in to such a small body, but every advantage has its down side as my Irish grandfather would repeatedly tell us.

If I lived over your side of La Manche I reckon I would have sorted out what instrument actually suited me years ago, and bought one.

With prices like these I may well even have bought a few more:-

http://morel-accordeons.com/occasions__chromatiques_boutons_212.htm

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

The Mini Sonora is a bit of a swine until you get used to it.

If I lived over your side of La Manche I reckon I would have sorted out what instrument actually suited me years ago, and bought one.

With prices like these I may well even have bought a few more:-

http://morel-accordeons.com/occasions__chromatiques_boutons_212.htm

Ah! Prices! Lou Morels keen prices reflect a contracting market in France, though some private vendors ask for more and some instruments can be seen advertised for years on end.

One problem living on this side of the ditch... it is far too easy to accumulate boxes. I currently have eight and five others have come and gone in the learning process and Ive only been at it a couple of years! Finding one that is the right size with the right Diapason and sound style calls for a fair bit of travelling around. Tempting pictures of grandpas accordeon that nobody in the family has a clue about can lead to some wild goose chases, but, Im learning... slowly.

Coming back to straps; a friend with a small melodion called in yesterday for a few tunes , her box is just 10 high, she talked of the early struggles to get comfortable and of buying a pair of long heavy weight straps sos she could sit it on her lap.

 

[maugein96]

Hi Geoff,

I hate to keep mentioning the decline in popularity of the instrument on here. Hats off to the optimists who claim there is a revival here or there, but most middle aged people are too young to remember the accordion in its heyday, and have never had any interest in it, so just what section of the populace will recognise any such revival?

To those of us who have an interest regardless, there is now such a wide gap between the prices of new and used instruments its a wonder the makers are able to sell many at all. Anybody who is sitting playing a decent box they are fond of wont be prepared to give it away for a song as a trade in.

The choice of occasions in France is almost overwhelming. Obviously the multitude on sale privately may represent substantial savings, providing you know what youre doing. We still get the grandads old accordion type of advert here, and Id be inclined to try and find a reputable dealer, which I appreciate is not easy, even in the accordion Mecca where you are. Lou Morels prices are about the keenest Ive seen online, but I suppose Bordeaux might as well be Tipperary, depending on which part of France you live.

I noticed that at least one of Lous old Cavas has the peigne arriere arrangement for the bassoon reeds. Id never heard of that until very recently, and you may have seen it as four large circular holes on the rear of the treble side, covered in mesh. Its supposed to amplify the bassoon reeds, although I have no experience of the system at all. Dont think they still make them that way, and I wouldnt go for a 4 voice box these days, especially if it was LMMM.

Seems that anything with a boite in it just about doubles the price, unless it is a very heavy relic (like me).

Lately, I have become fascinated with swing, americain, and moderne tunings, and have been scouring the net for sound samples. Naturally the Cavas are the Rolls Royce of americain, but I was surprised to hear the sound of this little chap, a Maugein Export, the one with two flutes rather than one bando and one flute. If you play Balajo in the link youll hear what I mean.

Very steep new price for a little box like that, but its way better than my two voice Hohner Nova. Domi Emorine used to play one of those little Maugeins on stage when she was younger, and the sound was amazing. Mind you amazing player may have been the reason, as much as the instrument itself.

I can adjust my straps so the the little swine sits on my knee, and Ill see how I get on.

https://www.mon-accordeon.com/neuf/maugein-export

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Well here is my premier " Peigne" instrument. I was content with the Mini Sonora untill I bought this Cooperativa Armoniche Vercelli... usually shortend to "Coopé" , but pronounced Cour-peh in France.

You can see the grill at the back of the keyboard covering the comb which controls the small pistons that couple the Bassoon reed levers with those of the Flute voices. This gives a very direct Bassoon sound, quite strong and not as mellow as can be achieved with a tone chamber . Apparently Jimmy Shand prefered this arrangement as the sound is stronger . I have a 1960's Recineti which has gauze covered holes in the cover plate behind the keyboard but although the bassoon reeds are not in a tone chamber neither is there a "peigne" mechanism, so I'm thinking that modern accordions which do not have a tone chamber utilise the foundation plate sliders for control of the L reeds.

If anyone is interested to see the "peigne" mechanism... I can try to make some pictures under the cover plate grill.

This CBA was made in 1931 and as can be seen the Bellows does need replacing, one corner gusset patch is causing a bulge but it is sufficiently air tight, just does the Rumba when extended past half way. I think my playing took a good leap forward when I got this one, perhaps it is because I like the sound and so I practice more.

It is an LMMM with 5 hz. of musette tuning.

Well Maugein 96.... all the recordings on the "mon-accordeon" site are first class. There was a lady playing a small Maugein in our kitchen last sunday ( we'd had a meeting of Cabrette players over the weekend) and she was working her instrument very hard against the barrage of 5 Cabrettes, 3 fiddles and my Coopé, which was coasting along, coping pretty well in comparison. For me it is about how well I can hear what I am playing in an accoustic environment.

Lou Morel would be a 2 to 3 hour drive away from home. Maugein Frères, ABC Accordéon and Nouvel Accord would all be closer but not much.

 

[maugein96]

Thanks for that info and especially the pics Geoff. Makes me want to get the flat cap and sabots on!

I had a 50s 4 voice LMMM Crosio which had that same grille on the rear of the treble keyboard, and the bassoon was very loud on it. Unfortunately, some clown had spoiled it completely by trying to tune it Scottish. I ended up getting rid of it after a few months.

There has always been some debate over whether anybody other than a recording artist actually needs cassotto in an accordion, and that was sort of reinforced when Cavagnolo turned out their current "Manouche" model, which is "sans boite" .

I seldom play 3 voice musette at all these days, but I only play at home indoors, so don't need a loud box at all. A little Maugein would probably suit my needs, but I already have 4 instruments, and my last divorce cost me an awful lot of money!

That is a beauty of an accordion. Coop make/made models for the French market for many years, although I've never actually seen one, other than in pics. I'm sure that 20 or 30 years ago just about every small town in Limousin would have had an accordion outlet, and you would have your house full of them. Mind you, they would probably have been be a lot more expensive to buy then.

Thanks again.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Thanks for that info and especially the pics Geoff. Makes me want to get the flat cap and sabots on!



That is a beauty of an accordion. Coop make/made models for the French market for many years, although I've never actually seen one, other than in pics. I'm sure that 20 or 30 years ago just about every small town in Limousin would have had an accordion outlet, and you would have your house full of them. Mind you, they would probably have been be a lot more expensive to buy then.

Thanks again.

Glad you liked the pics Maugein96, I have lots more photos but they are all too 'big' to post on the forum and I don't know how to reduce their bites... so for these I re-set the camera.

Every small town had an accordeon outlet at one time ? Probably . The current problem is how to find that ultimate instrument without ending up with a house full of the things one has bought by correspondance, in hope or wishfull thought. Some incredible bargans appear every day, though they are usually at other ends of the country.

One disadvantage of the Peigne Arriere system is not being able to select Basson only .

 

[donn]

You can see the grill at the back of the keyboard covering the comb which controls the small pistons that couple the Bassoon reed levers with those of the Flute voices.

Thats interesting, I didnt know this term until recently, but my Fratelli Crosio has it - in the double form, where it gives an octave. Like this:


or nicer picture of someone elses accordion that mysteriously doesnt load for me here:

I guess this is a brilliant idea, but its awfully hard to fix when the linkage as seen in the photo starts to come apart. Mine has a combination of some hideously soldered replacement swivels, and my own stopgap repairs where I just lashed the loose linkage together with some polyester thread.

Le registre peigne.

 

[JerryPH]

The site is not permitting remotely viewing the photo, but if you click on the link, it displays fine.

http://www.abc-accordeon.fr/catalog/231-104-thickbox/cavagnolo-virtuose-12.jpg

Edit: ... or we can cheat, move the photo to another server that doesnt block the file.

http://syner-g.asuscomm.com/mymusic/files/cavagnolo-virtuose-12.jpg>