Shoulder to strap on!

[Geoff de Limousin]

There are several different versions of the Peigne mechanism... I have had four different makes with four slightly different interpretations... I'm sure there will be more versions.

Luckily the one I had to fix today, for a friend who has been a naughty boy at an auction, was the same as mine pictured above.

Thanks for making the links to far better pictures than I could produce.

 

[maugein96]

Well, I can honestly say that I thought I knew quite a bit about French accordions, but I'm still at a loss as to why this system was created, never mind the mechanical workings involved.

You have bassoon reeds which cannot be selected on their own, so you only get to use them with flute or other reeds. I cannot see the point of that, bearing in mind that most French boxes either feature MMM flutes, usually tuned three voice musette, or LMM, with the two flutes tuned swing, americain, moderne, or two voice "musette". Even 4 voice LMMM boxes usually allow bassoon reeds to be selected on their own.

I've probably missed something somewhere, but it seems to me that for peigne arriere, read pain in the a## if it goes wrong.

Thanks to Donn and Jerry for the excellent photos.

 

[donn]

There are several different versions of the Peigne mechanism...

Right, I sort of went off on a tangent there, inasmuch as yours is apparently not an octave doubling type. So pictures would be great!

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

There are several different versions of the Peigne mechanism...

Right, I sort of went off on a tangent there, inasmuch as yours is apparently not an octave doubling type. So pictures would be great![/quote]


OK Donn,

I will try to make some pictures today , see if I can throw some light in a dark corner.

So, your octave doubling mechanism links the key being depressed with its octave key ?

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Well, I can honestly say that I thought I knew quite a bit about French accordions, but I'm still at a loss as to why this system was created, never mind the mechanical workings involved.

You have bassoon reeds which cannot be selected on their own, so you only get to use them with flute or other reeds. I cannot see the point of that, bearing in mind that most French boxes either feature MMM flutes, usually tuned three voice musette, or LMM, with the two flutes tuned swing, americain, moderne, or two voice "musette". Even 4 voice LMMM boxes usually allow bassoon reeds to be selected on their own.

I've probably missed something somewhere, but it seems to me that for peigne arriere, read pain in the a## if it goes wrong.

Thanks to Donn and Jerry for the excellent photos.

Well , the "peine du derrière" appears to be an early attempt to add a Basson voice to the then fairly standard 3 (flute) voice musette accordéon design. Probable reasons why? Perhaps a pallet that has to seal four holes in the foundation plate would need a heavy spring which would make the keyboard too stiff or the mixing of large and small reeds on each side of a reed block caused other problems..... I'm not sure but I'll think about .

Perhaps the main reason for adding the Basson voice to accordeons in the 1920's/30's was due to the fashion for the Tango and the wish to emulate the sound of the Bandoneon ?

A pain when it goes wrong; well yes but the four examples I have at the moment date from 1928,1931,1933 and 1949 and they are all still working. I did have a problem with the 1933 Ranco due to a warp in the casework which caused misalignment of the mechanism. I read somewhere that although the peigne system was thought to produce a superior sound it was discontinued due to the complexity/ cost of manufacture and the 'boite de resonance" superseded it.

Whilst there might appear to be no good reason why the Basson voice cannot be used without the unison Flute, it would only take another register slider to close off the flute blocks, perhaps those old makers were trying to avoid too many actuator levers passing through the foundation plate as they create potential air leak points? This was before the introduction of sliders sandwiched in the foundation plate.

 

[maugein96]

Come to think of it the cassotto on the mini Sonora instantly makes the keys a bit stiffer, and I read somewhere that the tone chamber on these is non standard with the reeds lying flat. I might open it up and get a closer look. I do find that it is not possible to get a sound from the bassoon register when you attempt to select it on its own from the two voice flute combination. Or rather, you do, but need to wait a second or two until "something" sorts itself out. I have a friend with the same model, and he experiences the same situation.

No doubt there is a reason, but my technical knowledge of accordions is such that I just play them without trying to figure out what is happening.

I have a Marinucci LMM with "French" rear mounted couplers and the bassoon register kicks in immediately it is selected. It doesn't have a tone chamber, so that might have a bearing on it.

Complicated boxes of tricks, accordions!

 

[donn]

So, your octave doubling mechanism links the key being depressed with its octave key ?

Sure, barring semantic fine points ... the way I would put it is, each key is linked to two reeds an octave apart. So I think the first part is common to peigne systems - they all link two reeds to the same key - and mine differs from yours in that the two reeds are the same bassoon reed bank. (Naturally, only in mid range where both octaves exist - on the top and bottom of the keyboard, only one reed.)

What also may be different is that its under register coupler control. Youd never actually hear that double octave if you heard me play that accordion, because I select only the upper octave. The linkage rods run through a guide bar that holds them against the pallet arm - or holds them away, and register shift (linkage slide on the back side of the keyboard) moves the bar to make that selection.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Here are pictures of the Peigne system on the 1930's models from Coop.Armoniche.

These just have simple bent ended rods which actuate the secondary levers for the Basson voice. A more complex method will have tiny srew jacks on the ends of the wire rods tho make adjustment easier.

Sorry about the low resolution pictures, my camera settings don't allow a 'just under the size limit' for this forum.

 

[maugein96]

Starting to wonder if I should have stuck with the trumpet, as all this technical stuff is beyond me. I'm fine if I can actually see what's working, but cannot follow it from photos and diagrams at all.

Amazing what a post regarding shoulder straps can lead to! A fascination discussion, but you've all convinced me:-

If I ever buy another box, I think it will have to be a two voice MM, no tone chamber, bed chamber, or any other chamber. No bassoon reeds, bass registers, peigne arriere, derriere, or any other fancy systems. Just an accordion will be fine!

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Ok ! Sorry for the thread drift .... back to musique then .

 

[maugein96]

No problem at all Geoff, I started the ball rolling with peigne arriere, then had to run for cover when the speed got too much for me.

I am always keen to learn anything about French boxes, as there is a dearth of them over here. I'm currently in the Cotswolds in a old cottage with not a lot to do, apart from moan about the local prices. Very pretentious pub meal for two last night, £40, then had to go home for cheese and biscuits as we were still hungry! Hope prices over your side are better.

Now I'm definitely off topic!

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

OK then , while we are off topic; meals out in France are not so expensive, unless you want to have something fancy. Most Pub /resturants do a lunchtime repas from about €11 , three courses for the workers , Asian restuarants can be the same price for 'à volonté' (eat as much as you want/can). Evening means in medium nice places €16, or €25 or €40 for multiple courses.... sky's the limit .

And whilst I'm at it and by way of appology ( explaination/ excuse) for getting too technical:

I am very interested in musical instrument construction both techincally and socially because I have been a lone maker/repairer of instruments for 40+ years. Initially putting old Concertinas back into service and since 1978 working full time making the Irish Pipes ( Uilleann Pipes). Working by myself causes an interest in the social aspects of Villages and Towns who involved themselves with the manufacture of one type of instrument; Mirecourt for Violins, Castelfidaro,Vecelli etc etc for Accordeons. It was the same in London for the Concertina, a sort of cottage industry at one time.

What I make can all be done by one person, though it took me years to get all the different skills up to scratch, whereas the Accordeon appears to employ people who each do the thing they are trained for and specialist suppliers exist for mass produced items.

Combine all this with the social aspects of changing tastes in dancing, musical fashions and traditions in various countries you see why I find the accordion fascinating because the instrument I make has one basic tradition and culture and the accordion is far more universal.

Oh, and I'm also at a bit of a loose end this last week trying to shake off a dose of the Flu.. cheers Maugein96.
Geoff.

 

[maugein96]

Well

Only thing I'm any good at is making a mess. Wife lit log burner half an hour ago then had to light it again after I rearranged the logs!

Must be a fantastic thing to be able to make musical instruments. I might be able to make a comb and paper if I bought the comb!

I used to work on helicopters fitting electrical components, but was so good at it that I ended up working on the flight deck of the carrier doing very non technical stuff like starting them up off the ship's power supply, refuelling them, lashing them to the deck, and folding the blades before they went down the lift into the hangar deck. I still had to change any defective navigation lights and fit weapons to them, but that's the most technical job I've had in my life.

The technical aspect of accordions is fascinating stuff, and I only wish I could follow some of the more in depth posts about the mechanics and musical theory. Wish I could play free bass and all that stuff, but it takes me all my time just to deliver that "oompah" at the right time. At least the forum caters for all levels of incompetence!