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Sticky bass button when the bellows are angled downwards

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forró

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I noticed the problem about a week ago. It only happens when the bellows are angled downwards (I do not mean straight 90° down)
It is only when I am standing this happens, because for whatever reason, my playing style tends to let the bellows droop more. It doesn't happen when I am sitting.

It is possible that the issue has always been there (it is over 40 years old) but I rarely play standing up and just didn't pick up on it.
Only one button is sticky and that is the B major button.
The tendency to stick is greater if the bellows are opened up more, and hence angled more downwards. I can unstick it by pressing the B minor button or some other note which is connected to the same linkage system.

I had a look inside and could not find any obvious reason for it sticking. I did have to place it on a chair, elevate it, and then release the bellow to see the mechanism as it would be under gravity.

I took it to a shop to have it looked at, and also to get a raised treble key sorted out.
The store owner said it needed some slight lubrication, and whatever he did seems to have fixed it...for a few days, but now it's happening again.

Any thoughts?
 
The mechanisms inside an accordion generally never need lubrication. On the contrary: oily substances attract dust and after a while the problem just gets worse. When a bass button is sticky something inside is rubbing against something it shouldn't be rubbing against. Instead of lubrication to make the "touching" parts move smoothly the real solution is to make sure the parts do not touch. It can be a matter of 1/10th of a millimeter somewhere. A slight misalignment in the button or piston can be enough to make the button stick under certain circumstances.
You might need to take the accordion to a better technician...
 
Thanks for your response Paul.

Hmm, if it's not meant to be lubricated then that concerns me...
It is not very easy to find many accordionists in Melbourne, let alone accordion technicians. Luckily he didn't charge anything for it.

I shall take a picture or two and post it here. Perhaps you or someone else would spot something that I can't see as I am not familiar with the internals. This was the first time I removed the bass side cover.
 
forró said:
Thanks for your response Paul.

Hmm, if it's not meant to be lubricated then that concerns me...
It is not very easy to find many accordionists in Melbourne, let alone accordion technicians. Luckily he didn't charge anything for it.

I shall take a picture or two and post it here. Perhaps you or someone else would spot something that I can't see as I am not familiar with the internals. This was the first time I removed the bass side cover.
Click to expand...

capt.accordion@optusnet.com.au - Peter Anderson, and https://www.facebook.com/groups/696185617073979 will set you right.
 
forró said:
I noticed the problem about a week ago. It only happens when the bellows are angled downwards (I do not mean straight 90° down)
It is only when I am standing this happens, because for whatever reason, my playing style tends to let the bellows droop more. It doesn't happen when I am sitting.

It is possible that the issue has always been there (it is over 40 years old) but I rarely play standing up and just didn't pick up on it.
Only one button is sticky and that is the B major button.
The tendency to stick is greater if the bellows are opened up more, and hence angled more downwards. I can unstick it by pressing the B minor button or some other note which is connected to the same linkage system.

I had a look inside and could not find any obvious reason for it sticking. I did have to place it on a chair, elevate it, and then release the bellow to see the mechanism as it would be under gravity.

I took it to a shop to have it looked at, and also to get a raised treble key sorted out.
The store owner said it needed some slight lubrication, and whatever he did seems to have fixed it...for a few days, but now it's happening again.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Lubrications are used in bass mechanisms at times but the type is usually reserved for journeymen to know for obvious reasons....so don't fret over it. Knowing exactly what lubricant he used would definitely help to know as well as where he placed it....not because of the button and appurtenances... but the entire machine. You've made some outstanding observations whereas I believe you could proceed on your own to release that binding..... I'm under the assumption this is a stradella accordion and am visualizing the machine....but since certain brands have different mechanisms, I need to know that brand.
So sit on a chair beside a high table with the accordion on its back and bassboard facing you...and remove that bassboard. With an open palm press all the buttons in that B chord area *slowly* down and see if you can cause that bind to happen. Repeat if it doesn't. There are several places I want you to observe if you notice even the slightest binding and they are........the button against the button hole and its angle with the hole. It could be there. Also look under the buttonboard and the button shafts and do likewise trying to cause a bind.
Look for the note D# (or Eb) as that seems to be the culprit in all this. easily press it down and feel for any binding.
Something so minute can be very frustrating or very rewarding when they quickly are found.

If you have a button bender, you can always 'adjust' that BMajor button carefully since you see that as a possibility of a bind.

Give it a try and get back with the group.
 
Thank you snavoyosky - I shall give this a go today. I shall try and take some pictures, possibly a video to demonstrate what is going on.
The accordion is a Delicia Chorál III 120 bass accordion, and yes it's a Stradella type.
 
You almost certainly have a bent piston, It can be found if you send a few pic's . Inside & outside.

Take a close look at the out side top of the buttons, you will find one slightly out of alignment .
 
Last edited:
JIM D. said:
Pretty much in order and I suspect some portions of the bass machine has wood that has swollen and
jamming your piston. Without disassembly I suggest you apply a liberal amount of dry lube to al the
piston slots.

https://www.wd40.com/products/dry-lube/
Click to expand...
Hmm this could have happened yes, we are in winter now in Australia and my study room goes through quite a few temperature swings every day from 9°C to 22°C - depending on if I have the heating on. That, and some changing humidity levels could have cause some wood warpage - although it's not very evident from looking at it.

I shall apply some dry lubricant as you have suggested. Although I never asked the technician, it's possible that this is what he did initially as well.
 
It looks like the piston that stays down is bent slightly to the right compared to the adjacent ones. As the "hook" going down (from the button) comes down from a button a bit to the left of where the straight piston is each time the button is pressed the piston gets a slight push towards the right (and down) so over the years it may have become bent slightly to the right. (Luckily it can be bent back.)
 
Debra...I think you're right, I am not sure how you could see that from those pictures or the video but this linkage has a more eccentric action towards the right. The Emaj and F♯maj on either side do not seem to push right like that - in fact they seem to go in straight quite easily.

But I cannot see where the linkage is kinking to cause that. The investigation continues...
 
Thanks to all that helped.
Pulling out the bass side helped me to understand what was going on and how the bass mechanism works. Pretty intricate system!

The reason for the binding:

1) Where the button meets the stem, either due to manufacturing or use has shifted slightly from its centre point towards the right. The buttons on either side have a clean entry in the centre, but for the Bmaj button the entry hole has elongated towards the right. So it's more like an egg shape rather than a circle. This causes the button to slide up against the left side of its slot.

2) Due to the eccentricity above this results in the hook/linkage joint to push more towards the right as De Bra pointed out, so it is chafing the right side of the timber wall where it is slotted in the first level.

3) The rest of the linkage is not as straight as its peers either...it appears to be hitting the left side of the timber wall in the second level. Probably as a result of the issues above.

With more light and the correct angle it is very easy to see the other buttons go in and out with very good alignment in the centre.
With the Bmajor button linkage however there is some wobbly movement which causes it to bind.

I have tried to adjust it as best as I could, but unfortunately without the correct tools it has been hard to to do it without affecting the other linkages - althought it feels much better now.
The root problem though is the button/stem, so without changing that, the problem will just happen again regardless of the lubrication.

Can I just pull the button straight out with the linkage in the place, or do I need to extract the link individually to get the button out?
 
forró said:
Thanks to all that helped.
Pulling out the bass side helped me to understand what was going on and how the bass mechanism works. Pretty intricate system!

The reason for the binding:

1) Where the button meets the stem, either due to manufacturing or use has shifted slightly from its centre point towards the right. The buttons on either side have a clean entry in the centre, but for the Bmaj button the entry hole has elongated towards the right. So it's more like an egg shape rather than a circle. This causes the button to slide up against the left side of its slot.

2) Due to the eccentricity above this results in the hook/linkage joint to push more towards the right as De Bra pointed out, so it is chafing the right side of the timber wall where it is slotted in the first level.

3) The rest of the linkage is not as straight as its peers either...it appears to be hitting the left side of the timber wall in the second level. Probably as a result of the issues above.

With more light and the correct angle it is very easy to see the other buttons go in and out with very good alignment in the centre.
With the Bmajor button linkage however there is some wobbly movement which causes it to bind.

I have tried to adjust it as best as I could, but unfortunately without the correct tools it has been hard to to do it without affecting the other linkages - althought it feels much better now.
The root problem though is the button/stem, so without changing that, the problem will just happen again regardless of the lubrication.

Can I just pull the button straight out with the linkage in the place, or do I need to extract the link individually to get the button out?
Click to expand...
Good work! Sorry I can't say about pulling the button off on your particular accordion, but maybe Paul or Jim or someone knows.
 
Depending on your internal fortitude it's quite possible to adjust the angle of a single bass button rod in situ.

To do it you'll need a pair of long shank screwdrivers you're willing to sacrifice. Take one of the screwdrivers and cut the tip off the end of the shaft with a cutting wheel (a Dremel will suffice) and then cut a slot into the end of the shaft. Make the slot wide enough that it will slide over one of the bass button shafts and perhaps a 3/16th inches deep. Do the same to the other screwdriver. *

Having removed the back plate from the accordion and exposed the forest of button shafts, ID the problematic one. In your case as you described it it'll be in the second row from the very back. Pretty annoying, but if your shafts are long enough you should be able to snake the two "special tools" you created (sounds better than cut up old screwdrivers) onto the shaft, one perhaps a half inch above the other and then holding one and VERY GINGERLY tweaking the other align the shaft as is required. The metal of the shafts is generally pretty flimsy- there are a lot of them and collectively they add a lot of weight so they're by and large as light as possible while still functional. You can do slight alignments but if you put some mustard on it you'll wind up bending it too far and there are only so many bend it one way, then back the other, then back again, iterations you can get away with before you have a minor catastrophe (Who needs B anyway.... overrated! Stick with C flat).

If you're uncomfortable with this either live with it or get a repair shop- finding one being a big piece of the puzzle these days.

Using caution and going slowly and with patience it's really a pretty straightforward job.

May good fortune smile upon you-

Henry

*As long as you're cutting slots, if the shafts are thick enough you can cut similarly sized slots in the sides of the shafts perhaps 5/8 inches from the end. Armed with both end slots and slide slots you can tweak away with abandon pretty much anywhere in the bass shaft forest. I'd tweak cautiously myself but tastes vary! In the same spirit as when I told anyone who'd ask for performance without spending money advice in the days of my wayward motorcycle infested youth that "carburetor" was a French word meaning "leave it alone" I point out that if the other 119 seem to be working they're best left in peace.
 
henry d said:
Depending on your internal fortitude it's quite possible to adjust the angle of a single bass button rod in situ.

To do it you'll need a pair of long shank screwdrivers you're willing to sacrifice. Take one of the screwdrivers and cut the tip off the end of the shaft with a cutting wheel (a Dremel will suffice) and then cut a slot into the end of the shaft. Make the slot wide enough that it will slide over one of the bass button shafts and perhaps a 3/16th inches deep. Do the same to the other screwdriver. *

Having removed the back plate from the accordion and exposed the forest of button shafts, ID the problematic one. In your case as you described it it'll be in the second row from the very back. Pretty annoying, but if your shafts are long enough you should be able to snake the two "special tools" you created (sounds better than cut up old screwdrivers) onto the shaft, one perhaps a half inch above the other and then holding one and VERY GINGERLY tweaking the other align the shaft as is required. The metal of the shafts is generally pretty flimsy- there are a lot of them and collectively they add a lot of weight so they're by and large as light as possible while still functional. You can do slight alignments but if you put some mustard on it you'll wind up bending it too far and there are only so many bend it one way, then back the other, then back again, iterations you can get away with before you have a minor catastrophe (Who needs B anyway.... overrated! Stick with C flat).

If you're uncomfortable with this either live with it or get a repair shop- finding one being a big piece of the puzzle these days.

Using caution and going slowly and with patience it's really a pretty straightforward job.

May good fortune smile upon you-

Henry

*As long as you're cutting slots, if the shafts are thick enough you can cut similarly sized slots in the sides of the shafts perhaps 5/8 inches from the end. Armed with both end slots and slide slots you can tweak away with abandon pretty much anywhere in the bass shaft forest. I'd tweak cautiously myself but tastes vary! In the same spirit as when I told anyone who'd ask for performance without spending money advice in the days of my wayward motorcycle infested youth that "carburetor" was a French word meaning "leave it alone" I point out that if the other 119 seem to be working they're best left in peace.
Click to expand...
Thanks Henry - I shall refer to this the next time I need to sort this button out.
For now I will be just play it as it is until the next time it needs rectification again.
But it is a pretty clever idea...can definitely sacrifice a few cheap screw drivers lying around.
 
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