This would be interesting... TierMaker ranking of accordions / manufacturers

[saundersbp]

However, if the prices do not settle down soon the gentrification of the accordion will be detrimental to the vibrancy of our instrument.

Absolutely! The wealth of the baby boomers and early retiree's it not something subsequent generations are going to enjoy.

 

[OuijaBoard]

It's complicated by the vast cultural shift in which regular people are turning away from acquiring and learning to play musical instruments even regardless of price considerations. There was once a piano in many ordinary homes, and many ordinary people responded to the door-to-door accordion lesson sales. That is a minority of cases now. In the U.S. at least, the ranks of those who play the Celtic genres of folk music are filled with people with not just degrees but graduate degrees, and a high percentage of computer/math whizzes, for whatever reason. I've also seen this with klezmer, tango, and some of the American roots genres. It's not so much that it's elitist or just hobbyists. The people who get into these genres are often very dedicated to the music and their chosen traditional instrument(s). It's more, they represent a small fraction of the population who once had a piano in their house . . . or an accordion.

Colors and decorations on accordions, which personally I like a lot, are not landing on the makers' shelves to attract me. They are landing there because color and decoration-loving Tex-Mex players are one of the few sectors where people from wide swaths of the economic/class spectrum are actually buying accordions. The makers have seen what Hohner Anacleto and Gabbanelli are getting away with price tag-wise, and they are catering to it. Hopefully the rest of our Puritanical, Anglo-Saxon/mitteleuro color-repressed society will catch the contagion, but how can they at these prices. I see a two-voice MM Gabbanelli 26-key 48-bass without even TAM reeds, is currently priced at $4600.00.

 

[OuijaBoard]

No offense but I have a different point of view. In the area of electronics products have essentially not become more expensive but have been technically improved a lot. My first "serious" camera was a Canon 300D dslr with 6MP and rubbish above ISO400. I had several other cameras since and they each cost about the same as what I paid for that Canon (without even compensating for inflation) and so for that same amount of money I now have a much better one. I bought my first really serious computer in 1989. It had an 80386 cpu (25Mhz), 4MB of ram and 150MB of disk and it cost $8.000. People nowadays complain that a new Macbook costs $2.000 or a bit more. My current one was around 3.000, with 16GB of ram and 2TB of ssd... Computers have become seriously cheaper over the past decades, and if you consider inflation cameras have become seriously cheaper as well.
As apposed to anything with electronics, (acoustic) accordions have hardly changed or improved at all in the past 2 or 3 decades, but they have become much more expensive, with prices going up much faster than inflation. And accordions that are two levels below the highest-end outnumber the sales of the high end ones by orders of magnitude. I know a few professionals who bought new high end accordions like the Pigini Sirius or even Nova. I know a few enthusiastic amateurs who bought a Sirius used, from professionals moving up to a Nova (or something else). From what I have seen the Bugari Champion-Cassotto and Artist-Cassotto accordions are quite popular, both new and used. Very few people buy something higher up in the range, and certainly not new. Accordion manufacturers who really focus on the very high end simply cannot survive. They need professionals to be advocates of their brand, but they really make their money on people following these professional and buying somewhat lower end accordions from that brand. It's not something comparable with the camera business where a serious alternative came to market. Many people are happy with the pictures they take with a camera-phone, so the market for compact cameras was essentially killed. There is nothing like that with accordions. The cheaper alternatives to "good" accordions are cheaper Chinese accordions which, sadly are not yet very good.. These Chinese ones may be killing off some of the Italian "student" accordions, but not yet the midrange.

I wouldn't argue with the idea that you can now get better electronic products at the same or lower prices you previously paid for less capacity or performance. My point is that camera prices are indeed going up, and the big camera makers are on record as stating that they are pursuing high-end premium products with higher price tags, aimed at pros (who may not be footing the bill themselves) or well-heeled enthusiasts with deep pockets. Now, they may find they need to re-open the big tent to include the entry level. But for the moment, the avowed focus is the premium end.

Accordion manufacturers who really focus on the very high end simply cannot survive. They need professionals to be advocates of their brand, but they really make their money on people following these professional and buying somewhat lower end accordions from that brand.

I agree--but the Italian accordion makers are not doing this at present. At the rate they are going they are pricing those people out. (Perhaps that is what you are saying?) Those people--that is, those who can afford to--are going to the more expensive Chinese stuff, which is the higher-priced Hohner Asian products, or to Klingenthal stuff. Hohner Bravo and Nova, Weltmeister, and Delicia. Those are the cheapest things you can get that are actually playable and sound good (at least, for folk genres).

Take the Dino Baffetti 34/72 Studio II model, a nice basic LMM Italian-made folk stroller with Durall reeds. I see one remaining new example out there, at a Canadian music store, at a price that would be about $2600 US with the exchange. https://musicworldacademy.com/produ...bass-accordion-with-hardshell-case-and-straps.

But that is not what landed in the U.S. in the most recent batch of 72 bass Dino Baffetti's to come down the tarmac at Liberty Bellows last year, 2022. The latest batch was 30/72 setup, four voices, hand reeds, and a variety of decorated color choices, priced at five grand. $4999.99.






They all sold. But not to the consumer we are talking about. There were no Dino Baffetti 72-bass Durall reed LMM's for that buyer or player to be a customer of Italy. That buyer or player is now a Weltmeister , Delicia, or Hohner Bravo customer. If they can afford it. Or they are taking the risk of buying vintage.

 

[Ventura]

, (acoustic) accordions have hardly changed or improved at all in the past 2 or 3 decades,

LoL.. so you also do not see the Solenoid fired Bass section as an improvement

personally i can't wait to get a few salvage Beltuna Solenoid boxes and
re-purpose the hammers and electromagnets to build an electronic
Centipede for chasing Crickets across my driveway in the evening

 

[petch]

Another thought on this theme. I am also a camera geek. A hot topic on camera forums is price increases in recent years, and the disappearance of affordable good-quality camera/lens kit packages. And indeed, the big-name camera makers have basically stated in recent press that they are focusing on high-end offerings for the professional and "enthusiast" buyer. In discussions about this, commenters note it as a response by camera producers to the loss in volume they've experienced due to people abandoning cameras for phones. So, where once they offered affordable good-quality stuff and sold it in huge volumes, they are making up for that by offering pricier stuff to a smaller, more premium target. Professionals who can write it off or who have it paid for by their employers, or well-heeled "enthusiasts."

This is probably a big factor in what's going on with accordion prices. Fewer people are interested in learning to play musical instruments, and that goes triple for the accordion. So they can't make their profit margin based on volume. And they are compensating to make up for the loss. Often with smoke-and-mirrors quote-unquote luxe enhancements. I've noticed with many folk-sized PA offerings they're adding perceived enhancements like TAM, and/or decorations, and/or a fourth voice to what was once a 34/72 LMM . . . along with a thousand-dollar price hike.

The sad thing about this phenom is it becomes a circular trap. The producers try to make up for reduced volume by going high-end and high-price. Thereby driving away potential customers who might get hooked for life and help sustain the product.

I can understand what's happening to cameras with the rise of smartphones. If they made a more affordable camera, who would buy it? They couldn't make it cheap enough whilst being significantly better than your smartphone for anyone to bother with. The price point such a device that does compete with smartphones would be priced so high that anyone interested would be better off spending that money on a used high-end model

Which in a way is similar to accordions... Italy cannot make them cheap enough to compete with Chinese offerings, and anyone that wants something good quality without the insane prices has to look at the used market

Also would agree with Paul on how far cameras have come... with the latest offerings from Sony even a complete amateur like me can get some really good photos with the IBIS, high frames per second, and the live-view you get in the electronic viewfinder with mirrorless cameras. In 20 years we've gone from 6 megapixels to 61! Now how different would a high-end accordion today be compared to one from 2 decades ago? A different grill, maybe?

 

[JerryPH]

My point is that camera prices are indeed going up, and the big camera makers are on record as stating that they are pursuing high-end premium products with higher price tags, aimed at pros (who may not be footing the bill themselves) or well-heeled enthusiasts with deep pockets.

Having been a pro photographer for oh 30 years or so, I've always kind of held my finger on the pulse of the photography side. While prices are going up, its not anywhere near the percentage levels that we are seeing happen on the accordion side. I have about $35,000 in photography equipment at this time and to duplicate it today but just using the "latest and greatest" would add about $5000 to that price if I was buying all new today. Not a big difference over a 5-10 year span!

10 years ago, accordions were a lot cheaper and today they are costing a lot more... so that new $10,000 accordion is today $20,000 or more. I think that this is the comparison that Paul is making. Even that used $500-$600 accordion from a few years ago is showing up today for $1500 or more. It seems that $8000 accordions are almost common, and that's downright sad!

 

[OuijaBoard]

Having been a pro photographer for oh 30 years or so, I've always kind of held my finger on the pulse of the photography side. While prices are going up, its not anywhere near the percentage levels that we are seeing happen on the accordion side. I have about $35,000 in photography equipment at this time and to duplicate it today but just using the "latest and greatest" would add about $5000 to that price if I was buying all new today. Not a big difference over a 5-10 year span!

10 years ago, accordions were a lot cheaper and today they are costing a lot more... so that new $10,000 accordion is today $20,000 or more. I think that this is the comparison that Paul is making. Even that used $500-$600 accordion from a few years ago is showing up today for $1500 or more. It seems that $8000 accordions are almost common!

Yes, I totally agree that the price hikes are greater on the accordion side. But I think the parallel with the camera companies currently trying to go high price tag in the face of shrinking unit volume, be this a wise or a foolish strategy, is likely one of the things that is going on with the accordion price hikes. I think it is telling that fresh batches of the LMM 34/72 Dino Baffetti shown in the first link below, are not re-populating the stock shelves. What is landing are batches of 72 bass Dino Baffettis specced and priced like that shown in the video clip and description below, which was indeed one of a batch. I think it is part of the phenomenon we're discussing here.

Dino Baffetti STUDIO II 72 Bass Accordion with Hardshell Case and Straps

Studio II34 Keys72 Bass3 Treble Reeds4 Bass Reeds5 Treble Registers2 Bass RegistersWeight 8.05 kgSize 41cm x 39cm x 18cmAdditional Information: PLU: 955ST20111

musicworldacademy.com

 

[OuijaBoard]

E]]]Even that used $500-$600 accordion from a few years ago is showing up today for $1500 or more. It seems that $8000 accordions are almost common![[[

Yes. It's the same with instruments including guitars, mandolins, saxophones. In Accordion World, the used dealers know that $2,000.00 for one of the later-generation 34/72 Hohner Concerto III LMMs, a classic folk box---a price that would have been unheard of until very recently--is a steal compared to $4500.00 for a Beltuna 34/72, or, gasp!, $5999.00 for a wood-chassis 30/72 LMM Brandoni folk box. Or a just-under-four-grand 30/72 LMM Ottavianelli with Durall reeds. The used dealers see this. They are doing what comes naturally, and price-hiking accordingly.

 

[losthobos]

There has been a lot of changes in the accordion manufacturing world over the last few decades...

Many of the great old accordion brands have passed away. The ones that remain are, in some ways, frail and not quite as exuberant as they once were. These things I can accept, but what saddens me the most is the realisation that there has been a fundamental change in the nature of our musical hobby...

Since the Victorian era until a couple of decades ago, the accordion has been a delightful instrument for the people; compact, with the ability to provide melodies, harmonies, self-accompaniments etc. Learners, hobbyists, professionals could enjoy it. Okay, so good accordions were never cheap instruments, but many were attainable with a lot of hard work to pay for them.

Nowadays, the good accordion is firmly a LUXURY item. The blatant price increases (well above inflation) that have been implemented over the last decade (without the actual product improving) is horrendous. A good new accordion has become a "play thing" for the affluent. Also the fresh-faced youngsters who trip off to accordion conservatoire where "I really need a Nova mummy, so I can express myself". Somehow it's okay to spend £28000+ on an accordion because the parents will honourably put themselves neck and heels in debt pay for it.

A Tier-list. Hmmm... more like a tear-list!

I've come over all sentimental and nostalgic....and also had an epiphany that I may be the weirdo eccentric in the village ....

 

[Ffingers]

Look at Tom's post today under "Repetoire 2023" - the roundabout of 'fashion' seems to be pointing in our direction.

 

[Dingo40]

but accordion prices have gone up way beyond inflation. And at the same time quality has gone down.

Things have changed
Once upon a time, the back room operative was content to work for a small wage.
No longer the case!
These days, even the guy who mows your lawn and cuts your hedge wants an upmarket house, a new, expensive 4WD, his kids in a private school and overseas holidays .
I don't blame him but the price of everything goes up accordingly.
Once, if you ran over a piece of pet sh** on the lawn you were mowing, you kept quiet and tried to avoid a repeat experience (or just ignored it).
These days ( true story) you send your client an irate SMS, sounding off and threatening to drop them ( as a client) if it should happen again. It wasn't even the customer's own pet that left the dump.

 

[Tom]

I've come over all sentimental and nostalgic....and also had an epiphany that I may be the weirdo eccentric in the village ....

I think that would probably be me, but why do you say this?

 

[Tom]

Look at Tom's post today under "Repetoire 2023" - the roundabout of 'fashion' seems to be pointing in our direction.

Yeah, maybe people are sick of technology and corporations running their lives and are attracted to a “real” instrument that lets them express themselves individually and fully without even singing. I believe our man Walker has talked about this.

 

[Tom]

Indeed, we can all glean crumbs of comfort from Tom's repertoire. My very first public performance over 30 years ago included Muss I Denn. I will never forget it. No matter how the times change, there's always room for the old fashioned ways if WE make the space for it. Nobody is going to do it for us.

Thanks Stewart! As much as I enjoy these tunes I really want to add “Train to Vercelli” (transposed probably to G to go with Kesh Jig). So many tunes, so little time!

 

[Ben-jammin]

I just looked at some accordion ads from 1957 and compared prices based on inflation. A student Italian made 2/4 41/120 would be about 2600-3k. A 4/5 41/120 non cassotto with TAM would be about 5,500. I think these prices are not very out of line with quotes I’ve got for a new custom built instrument. Whether or not inflation calculation is correct or not I was more concerned with the relative cost between the two instruments.

I think part of the issue is that for a long time there has been a surplus of accordions in the used market. The German companies found effective ways to make usable lower spec instruments at a lower cost but I wonder if they were getting insufficient profit margin on them, as they have since pushed further to reduce manufacturing costs. I don’t imagine the italian instrument crafting mentality considers enough corners to cut to be busy in that lower spec market. Going back to my 1957 price comparison I can’t imagine anyone paying 3k for a 2 reed student accordion these days. I’m no expert but I would expect whether you are are building an accordion with superior high end components or more run of the mill ones that a similar labor effort is required to put them together into a usable instrument. I am not surprised that the builders are trying to maximize their margin by going after the more premium segment, especially if they running near their capacity.

As the surplus is shrinking on functional used instruments we are seeing prices rise on the available used instruments. Currently these instruments are doing a decent job of filling that lower and middle range instrument demand and the marketable price for a new accordion in those market secments is less than manufactures are willing to sell an instrument built to similar standards of quality.

I guess my hypothesis is that well built lower spec accordions have been undervalued in relation to their original manufacturing cost. Until those values becomes more in line I don’t believe the better builders are going to pursue that market seriously. With that said many builders will quote a price for instrument built to spec.

 

[OuijaBoard]

""'A student Italian made 2/4 41/120 would be about 2600-3k. A 4/5 41/120 non cassotto with TAM would be about 5,500 think these prices are not very out of line with quotes I’ve got for a new custom built instrument.""

I take your larger point, though I'd wager that calculus is somewhat high for equivalent prices of student and standard-issue pieces. And the smaller West German workhorses now so beloved for folk playing were cheaper than Italian.

BTW, those price equivalences for those sizes at current inflated price tags are now "not out of line" for basic Italian with Durall, if not a tad low, forget bespoke, TAM or AM.

 

[Walker]

It's been well over 7 weeks since the last message here and at the time of the 36th post (above) I had not the faintest clue that I was going to buy a new Italian accordion only weeks later...

(A few weeks later) In the process of considering a number of brands I narrowed it down to Victoria, Bugari, Pigini and Scandalli quickly. Why? Simply because they all offered a certain product type that I was looking for, that many other brands don't make. So really, my selection wasn't so much due to a ranking of "superiority", it was about finding the product to suit my requirement. For example, Brandoni or Beltuna are good accordions too - but their product line didn't cater for my requirements. That doesn't make them lesser brands, just brands that are less relevant for my purpose.

Perhaps this is where ranking systems for accordions maybe aren't as suitable as they are for ranking other things - like watch brands. All watches may tell the time just as all accordions can make music, but the difference is, we all make music in very different ways, with different sounds and reed configurations and "systems". So, to me at least, that's why ranking accordion brands is difficult - because accordionist's requirements are so diverse.

I learned years ago to never buy an accordion for "what it is", meaning, I don't buy for the sake of the perceived kudos. Buying because of brand superiority is a folly because literally no one (apart from accordionists) cares a hoot about accordions. You could play a £30K accordion to ANYONE on the street and it might as well be a £30 accordion. Accordions, to me at least, are really for the benefit of the musician and the sound and style they want to create.

So in the end I chose a Scandalli instead of a Victoria, Bugari or Pigini. Really, in many ways it had nothing to do with ranking accordions, it was about finding an accordion that was available at the right time, at an acceptable price and with a sound and quality I was happy with.

Generally, I still think high quality accordions are skyrocketing in price and are becoming WAY too expensive and often they don't always live up to the standards we expect. However, I do believe that there are still good accordions being made, that can be reasonable in cost if one chooses carefully, buys from source and has good luck on their side.​

 

[debra]

... I do believe that there are still good accordions being made, that can be reasonable in cost if one chooses carefully, buys from source and has good luck on their side.​

You gave a good summary of the current situation, especially for people looking for a good accordion, but perhaps not the extremely expensive top of the line. Many workshops and small and large factories all produce very nice accordions. So choosing one is first and foremost a matter of finding the right configuration (which reed banks, cassotto or not, how many notes, which registers, which bass configuration, etc., etc.) When you realize that an accordion consists mainly (over 90%) of standard components sourced from only a few suppliers (for each) and you also realize that everyone has the passion and craftsmanship to deliver good work then it's a matter of finding the accordion that pleases you most, in terms of how it feels and sounds when you play it. The few things each accordion maker still makes by themselves, like treble and bass case and reed blocks, really determine the sound of the accordion. So the question becomes not "which accordion is better" but "which accordion you like better".