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Tiersen’s La Noyee: please give advice

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Scott4323

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From Indiana, USA

Self learning accordion to play Tiersen’s music.

Please listen and if you could please give advice on how I can get better. Having trouble finding a teacher where I live. I really love the accordion and the songs posted on this forum, and aspire to improve to be like you all.

Accordion model=Philharmonic

Link

Thanks!! Scott Kelly
 
Scott,

Welcome to the forum! Quite a few of us on here, myself included, are still old wannabe types who just play at whatever level we have managed to achieve over the years, so don't feel you have any need to aspire to be like us.

There are some pro players and some great amateurs amongst the members and you'll hear their music on the same board where you've posted this clip.

I've listened to French accordion music for about 60 years, and the first time I heard the name Yann Tiersen I thought he was a Norwegian football (soccer) player in France. Turns out he's half Belgian, half Norwegian, so I was nearly right.

Regardless of that fact he has obviously become a sort of cult amongst some accordionists, but I'd never heard the track you played before, and had to look up You Tube to get a chance to hear other accordionists playing the same tune. I could't find the "original", but assume there must be one. All I'll say about popular cults in any music is they tend to last until they are ousted by the next one. That aside, if Yann Tiersen's music brings new players to the accordion I don't care what team he plays for, and I commend you for letting us hear your rendition in your very first post.

With regard to your playing, it's certainly all there, and I'm not a pro player or a teacher, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. Try and watch other players playing that tune and have a look at how they use the bellows. The tune seemed to roll on without much expression, but it could be the fact that you just need to steady your right hand up a wee bit and try not to race through it. Maybe somebody else with greater knowledge of accordion techniques will be able to offer better advice.

As they say that's my 2 cents worth, although maybe some will say it's not even worth that. IMHO you're not very far away at all. Very well done, indeed!
 
Thanks Maugein, it made my day that somebody posted back! now that you say it I do feel like i rush accidentally.

Regarding lack of expression I definitely agree-I’m having trouble learning how to control the volume and accent certain notes I feel like I run out of air in the box or forget what to play next, I’m guessing that’s a thing that just comes with more practice, it sounds really cool when I listen to others do it.
 
Nice attempt at not Mr Tiersens easiest tune to play... I struggle with it... Especially the slightly off tempo left hand intro section, mind the later right hand swirling parts...
As a tip check out your left hand rhythm... Relax as best you can till it floats and try to make the initial single bass notes louder and slightly longer that the following two chord tones..just an idea... Hope helps and good practice
 
Scott4323 post_id=65771 time=1547686372 user_id=3470 said:
Thanks Maugein, it made my day that somebody posted back! now that you say it I do feel like i rush accidentally.

Regarding lack of expression I definitely agree-I’m having trouble learning how to control the volume and accent certain notes I feel like I run out of air in the box or forget what to play next, I’m guessing that’s a thing that just comes with more practice, it sounds really cool when I listen to others do it.

Scott,

Ive been playing for over 30 years, and until recently, was entirely self taught like yourself. I eventually found a teacher and guess what? I was doing exactly the same as you are tending to do at the moment. Running out of air can be minimised if you try and set yourself a method of controlling the bellows direction, usually by transferring the movement after a set number of bars. This means counting, which is something I find very difficult after being a free agent for 30 odd years. Ive also been taught how to work the bellows to maintain better control, and the teacher will often mark the scores where he wants me to change direction. Most of the time I can now get it right, but there is the odd occasion where the habits of a lifetime are difficult to break.

The real eye opener for me was that, although I can play a bit, the best thing Ive learned is to slow everything down to a crawl, well below what you would feel comfortable with, until youre able to match both hands up and get the bellows moving under control. Then, when you do get up to tempo you should hear and feel the difference. If you dont, and are still struggling to keep it all together, then you arent quite ready for playing the number at normal speed.

After 30 odd years I thought I was a reasonable player, until my teacher gave it to me straight that he loved the sounds I was getting out of the instrument, but would have preferred if I made music out of them! I had learned a lot of quite complicated techniques as well as an outdated chromatic accordion fingering system, but my version of reasonable player never quite matched his.

When I go to the lessons I feel as though I am just starting out, without the enthusiasm I had when everything was new to me. Im having to work very hard at rebuilding the confidence I had before being told my playing wasnt quite there. Im lucky enough to have found a teacher, but Im 65 now and it wont make a lot of difference to my aspirations. The accordion is a very difficult instrument to play well if you arent a child prodigy, but you have youth on your side and youll only get better with time and practice. Try some of the free online lessons on YT. Its amazing what you can learn from there, even if the music isnt to your taste.

I had played several other instruments before taking up the accordion, and that probably helped me out a bit, but its not as easy as some gifted types can make it look. If youre able to play like that after only a relatively short time, then all you need are the rough edges pruned and away you go! Some people are able to get there by self tuition only, and its entirely possible you will be one of those. The tendency to rush is probably just your desire to get to the end of the recording before you make a mistake. We all tend to do that, and with practice youll have the confidence to maintain a steady tempo. Youll know that you can play it better, but as soon as that record button is pressed, the home studio version of stage fright kicks in.

Keep at it, and Ill see if Tiersen has any places in his soccer team for you! I have relatives in Norway and couldnt quite make the connection with that Norwegian surname to France when I first heard it. I think that just about every accordionist will have heard of him by now. The music is not quite my bag, otherwise Id probably be playing it myself. I wouldnt like to put a label on it folk?, contemporary? I just dont know, but it obviously has a very strong following. Im a bit of a film phobe otherwise Id have known the composer and the tunes.
 
losthobos post_id=65777 time=1547709197 user_id=729 said:
Nice attempt at not Mr Tiersens easiest tune to play... I struggle with it... Especially the slightly off tempo left hand intro section, mind the later right hand swirling parts...
As a tip check out your left hand rhythm... Relax as best you can till it floats and try to make the initial single bass notes louder and slightly longer that the following two chord tones..just an idea... Hope helps and good practice

Thanks losthobos I like that. now that you mention it the base note supposed to be louder and longer than what I’m doing. I’ll work on relaxing LH i think the rigidness comes from trying to control dynamics like a piano and I just haven’t transitioned yet in my mind to how you do that with an accordion.
 
My favorite track in the Amelie movie is Guilty, not played on an accordion but by the blind man in the metro on a gramaphone...Al Bowly sings along to Ray Noble Orchestra
One of my favorite tricks used to be playing quickly under the assumption that if I flew over the mistakes quick enough no one would notice them..
My current practice method is to go over all tunes I know well playing only the right hand melody trying to keep neat, sparce and rhythmic..then to slowly add the bare minimum of left hand and see how develops from there.. Just a plan... Most likely get distracted and speed off somewhere else and resort to old bad habits...
 
maugein96 post_id=65767 time=1547676867 user_id=607 said:
Id never heard the track you played before, and had to look up You Tube to get a chance to hear other accordionists playing the same tune. I couldt find the original, but assume there must be one.

Here it is (assuming its viewable in the UK):
 
maugein96 post_id=65780 time=1547717694 user_id=607 said:
the best thing Ive learned is to slow everything down to a crawl, well below what you would feel comfortable with, until youre able to match both hands up and get the bellows moving under control. Then, when you do get up to tempo you should hear and feel the difference. If you dont, and are still struggling to keep it all together, then you arent quite ready for playing the number at normal speed.

This. This right here. The number one piece of advice I would give pretty much anyone (on any instrument) is to practice at a slower tempo.

How slow? Ive heard of one music school that advises the students to spent some time practicing pieces so slowly that someone walking by would not be able to recognize what the song was. Thats how slow. :D

A metronome helps with this. Turn that sucker on and dial the tempo down. It can be quite a revelation! But think about it... if you cant play a piece very slowly, correctly, absolutely locked in with the metronome, what hope do you have of playing it accurately at the final intended tempo? (And if you cant yet play a tune in sync with an external reference, how will you play it with other musicians?)

So if I may pick on the OP (since he asked for it!), I notice that the tempo throughout is unsteady, with some beats getting rushed here or there. Lots of uneven eighth notes. That might be an indication that youre going too fast for where your skill currently is. Moreover, when it switches from the first part (with the syncopated bass pattern) to the second part (with the more standard waltz pattern), the overall tempo drops waaaaay down. Thats definitely a sign that youve bitten off a faster tempo than you can chew at the moment.

I would suggest figuring out the tempo at which youre playing that second section and start the song no faster than that. Sort of like marching no faster than the slowest guy in the parade. And when you practice the song, go even slower than that. By a lot.

Besides, this particular song actually sounds quite nice played very slowly. Shouldnt be a chore at all.

But hey, overall I think youre doing great for not having a teacher! (Im guessing you have some piano/keyboard background?) Keep on keeping on!

P.S. I used to live in Indiana too! (Jeffersonville)
 
JeffJetton post_id=65800 time=1547753574 user_id=1774 said:
maugein96 post_id=65780 time=1547717694 user_id=607 said:
the best thing Ive learned is to slow everything down to a crawl

This. This right here.

Thanks Jeff yeah, it sounds like slowing down to unmess this up is the way to go
 
Yes, I agree whole heartily that practicing painfully slow is the way to start out with new tunes, then gradually gain speed until you mess up again. When you do mess up, you know you are going to fast for your current level of competence with that particular piece, then slow down again. Playing slowly is sometimes not easy to do, for we all have in mind of the speed the tune wants to be played but have to ignore those thoughts. After all, when you consistently mess up a particular passage, and continue to play it that way, you are practicing how to play it wrong. I have developed the habit of when I mess something up, stop and play it right, slowly, several times before continuing.

Another tip my instructor drills into me is to always work out the bass first. He says he always knows when I have not done that.

For me, playing absurdly slow has the additional benefit of really annoying my wife.
 
StargazerTony post_id=65831 time=1547815848 user_id=2434 said:
After all, when you consistently mess up a particular passage, and continue to play it that way, you are practicing how to play it wrong. I have developed the habit of when I mess something up, stop and play it right, slowly, several times before continuing.

Play something wrong half a dozen times and youll have a devil of a job correcting it, and maybe even the parts on either side of it. My teacher sometimes has me repeating the same bar at very slow speed if I dont lift a finger off at exactly the right time, or if Im not giving a note its proper value. How can you give a note its proper value if youre playing at half speed? His answer was Relative to the other notes at the tempo were playing. They have an answer for everything, these guys, so I just stopped talking and did what he told me, Im sure there is a term used when you pay somebody to inflict torture on you, but luckily were not on that page yet. Maybe better still doing everything at half pace for a while yet, as Im getting wary!
 
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