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Tuning Advice

Do you have something that can measure BPS? I can't imagine that you can personally hear if something is 2.95 BPS!

Bill Farmer tuner will show tremolo if you enable "multiple notes": https://billthefarmer.github.io/ctuner/
But I normally just measure M and M+ seperately and take the difference.

I think everybody can tell the difference between 4 cents tremolo and 15 cents (4bps) tremolo.
I can hear the difference between 12 cents (my Scandalli) and 15 cents (my Hohner), but it's not a huge difference.

Have a look at https://www.accordionists.info/threads/demonstration-of-10-musette-tunings-by-liberty-bellows.7547/
and see which musette tuning you prefer.
 
Update!! Weird update.
I finished mapping my Hz with the high register. Turns out, I don't have a LMMH, I have a LMMM. The high register has the same Hz as the M registers. My registers keys, however, show, LMMH.
20250128_130151.jpg

So I thought: I've got a true musette instrument (if that's what you call it--with M-15,M,M+15). But look at the chart. The 'high' register (light blue and orange lines) starts out about the same as the M+ (Yellow/Green) and then halfway through meets up with the M register.

M=Blue/Red
M+=Green/Yellow
H?=Light Blue/Orange
1738087994946.png
Is there any logic to this? The banks are stamped 1,2,3,4, so I don't think banks were swapped out. Any thoughts as to how this might have come about?

And what do I do now, as I start thinking about (eventually) tuning this? Do I look to trade my high register for a true high register? Do I tune it -/M/+?
 
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It was known back in the day for the register switches to not have the correct notation for the actual reed selection.
It didn't really matter as long as the buyer knew what the reeds were.
And not all possibly reed combinations were provided.

My Hohner LMMH has 9 register switches with no repeats
top to bottom: H, M, L, ML, LMM+H, MM+, HL, HML, HM
It doesn't have imitation musette (HMM+) or Accordion (MM+L)

A Hohner Arlantic IV Musette has 10 switches https://reverb.com/uk/item/58852585-hohner-atlantic-iv-musette-accordion-black
LM-MM+, M-MM+, ML, L, M, LM-MM+, M-MM+, ML, L, M, M-MM+
without repeats LM-MM+, M-MM+, ML, L, M
in theory it could also have three different violin combinations.

Your box has L, LMM+, LM, LMM+H, MM+H, MM+, M
that's definitely a bit odd - no H register

I would check which banks are operated by the register switches.
Then compare the size of the reeds on the 'H' bank with the 'M' bank.
You could also tape under the M and M+ and try playing the H solo - is it an octave higher or not ?
 
consider that Giulietti finished a lot of accordions after
they arrived from Italy, some were perhaps "bare bones"
but others may have been more complete.. This was not a
wealthy company with scads of unsold units of all types
and configurations taking up space and capital.

now if there was a need to customize something for a customer,
but the exact perfect blank slate was not handy, that pulling
something off the shelf that wasn't ideal, but close, would do.
it is no surprise to me that a standard LMMH box was customized
into an LMMM and that they did not have alternate shifts available
nor the time or profit margin or even need to make a custom cap

Tuning and reedwork were strong suits so doubtless the original
tuning was exactly what Giulietti intended it to be

when you PLAY it how does the musette SOUND to your ear ?
is it pleasing, is it strong ? is it weak ? do any notes sound way
off or weird ? can you play 4 fingered chords or is it too wet for
more than melody lines ?

personally, if i wanted to really understand the current tuning
i wouldn't use some piece of software, but remove the reedblocks
and test/map every reed individually and specifically on a huge
piece of paper. then play paired MM reeds and listen for the
beat as you go up the scale and see if it seems like a natural
ramping of the musette wave
 
It was known back in the day for the register switches to not have the correct notation for the actual reed selection.
It didn't really matter as long as the buyer knew what the reeds were.
And not all possibly reed combinations were provided.

My Hohner LMMH has 9 register switches with no repeats
top to bottom: H, M, L, ML, LMM+H, MM+, HL, HML, HM
It doesn't have imitation musette (HMM+) or Accordion (MM+L)

A Hohner Arlantic IV Musette has 10 switches https://reverb.com/uk/item/58852585-hohner-atlantic-iv-musette-accordion-black
LM-MM+, M-MM+, ML, L, M, LM-MM+, M-MM+, ML, L, M, M-MM+
without repeats LM-MM+, M-MM+, ML, L, M
in theory it could also have three different violin combinations.

Your box has L, LMM+, LM, LMM+H, MM+H, MM+, M
that's definitely a bit odd - no H register

I would check which banks are operated by the register switches.
Then compare the size of the reeds on the 'H' bank with the 'M' bank.
You could also tape under the M and M+ and try playing the H solo - is it an octave higher or not ?
The H bank is definitely the same octaves as the other two M banks. What I don't get is that the H register seems to have no tuning logic vis-a-vis the other two M registers. It seems to mostly follow the tuning for the M+ register. Even considering the need for tuning after so many years, you'd think you'd at least see some general distinction in Hz between registers, wouldn't you?
 
consider that Giulietti finished a lot of accordions after
they arrived from Italy, some were perhaps "bare bones"
but others may have been more complete.. This was not a
wealthy company with scads of unsold units of all types
and configurations taking up space and capital.

now if there was a need to customize something for a customer,
but the exact perfect blank slate was not handy, that pulling
something off the shelf that wasn't ideal, but close, would do.
it is no surprise to me that a standard LMMH box was customized
into an LMMM and that they did not have alternate shifts available
nor the time or profit margin or even need to make a custom cap

Tuning and reedwork were strong suits so doubtless the original
tuning was exactly what Giulietti intended it to be

when you PLAY it how does the musette SOUND to your ear ?
is it pleasing, is it strong ? is it weak ? do any notes sound way
off or weird ? can you play 4 fingered chords or is it too wet for
more than melody lines ?

personally, if i wanted to really understand the current tuning
i wouldn't use some piece of software, but remove the reedblocks
and test/map every reed individually and specifically on a huge
piece of paper. then play paired MM reeds and listen for the
beat as you go up the scale and see if it seems like a natural
ramping of the musette wave
Playing all three M's together sounds pretty weird. The reeds were tested and mapped individually, but in the box. The tuning is off enough so I don't get a consistent beat progression at all -- the tremolo sounds okay (wetter than my taste) by varies a fair bit from note to note. Again, even with the tuning as off as it is, you can make out that M and M+ were originally tuned to 12-15 cents at A (my guess), but there is no sense to the frequencies of the H register.

So how would you go about tuning something like this?
 
There have been musette accordions that had the reeds tuned to different offsets,
so something like -5, 0, +8 and they have register switches to give different amounts of wet.
Possibly Victoria Super Musette: https://reverb.com/uk/item/28042011...e-keys-120-bass-11-treble-and-4-bass-couplers
M-M gives 5 cents
MM+ gives 8 cents
M-M+ gives 13 cents
M-MM+ vives full musette at around 13 cents.

Some people say real musette (M-MM+) sounds fairly different to violin (M-M+).
But I don''t have a full musette to compare.

If your 'H' reed is really another M, so you've actually got a real musette then it would make sense to tune it half way between M and M+.
If your register switches do what the dots say then 'musette' would give a real M-MM+ musette, and master would be LM-MM+.

If you go down that road you've still got the issue of how wet you want M+ to be.
On the other hand you could just use violin for the moment and see how it sounds when M and M+ are tuned.
 
Some people say real musette (M-MM+) sounds fairly different to violin (M-M+).
But I don''t have a full musette to compare.
I have a chc262 cass Bugari Armando LMMMH factory tuned "Special Musette " 41/120 PA tuned 438/440/442.
One of the detuned M reeds can be engaged or disengaged at will.
The two reed tremulo coupling sounds wettish and the three reed definitely even wetter, but not as wet (to my ears) as some Hohners .😄
 
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Playing all three M's together sounds pretty weird.
then the tuning has been messed with by some 3rd party

but there is no sense to the frequencies of the H register.
sometimes an extra M in unison (or damn close to it)
is what some pro's want for a very clean and pure
solo voice, but richer without actual noticeable wave,
with the third M reedset dcausing pretty much ALL the musette

my Excelsior 960 (LMMMH) two of the M's are unison a-440
while the third M gives a gentle (full chord) musette
So how would you go about tuning something like this?
first, decide on your base/reference frequency by
analyzing the L set and tune the MIDDLE octave of the L reeds

next, tune the primary M low octave of reeds exactly to the
same frequencies, then put the 2 sets into the accordion and
make SURE the second octave of L and first octave of M are
perfect together.. they should have no beating between them..
play some fifths and other combinations too

this is your reference octave

(if it has a tone chamber, these would be the reeds in the chamber)

then finish tuning the L and M reeds, constantly referencing/comparing
the other reeds you are tuning to that perfect reference octave

play the heck out of the base L and M reeds solo and in combination
chords fifths augmented listen for stray beats and tune them into submission

once you have the CORE reedsets tuned perfectly...

then, decide what you want the accordion flavor to be
French, Italian, German, Scottish, Jazz ?

do you want to have your primary musette be gentle enough
for full chords, for sweet French songs and sweeping
orchestral Waltz music ? then be conservative with the M+ reeds

i would tune the first/lowest octave of M+ out of the accordion
to a "formula" based on your preference, then put it back in and
play the M and M+ reeds together and decide if that is what you want,
and note what you need to do/adjust so the "beating" is about the same
as you go up that first octave

then do the rest of the M+ reeds, hopefully what you learned doing
the first octave gives you clues that makes things easier

once you have the M and M+ reeds sounding nicely tuned,
and L M M+ together sounding great, THEN you decide how
low you want to go with the M- and how wet you want it to turn out

i would tune it a hair lower at first, cuz you can always make
it even lower, but it is a bear to make it higher again if you mess up badly

if you do not have enough flexibility in the preset shifts to
give you all isolation and combinations, just take the grill off,
remove the shifts, and then you can open and close each reedset
with your fingers on the little pivots the shift arms were connected to

that is how i would approach it
 
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