What type of Roland V accordion should I get? Or is there another drum accompaniment solution?

[Ruth]

I have not purchased a new accordion in 20 years (last one was a Bugari 96 bass - nice and small!). I am considering a Roland FR-4x or FR-1x. But I am worried the FR-1x keyboard may be too small. But the FR-4x looks kind of heavy. I am a female, so have always loved the portability of my 96 bass Bugari, but want some drums accompaniment.

On the other hand, if all I want is drum accompaniment, should I get the Roland at all? I don't have a lot of time to learn the electronics, so perhaps there is a different solution?

 

[JerryPH]

Welcome to the forum!

The factory specs state that the 4X weights just under 20 pounds without straps, so let's say 22 pounds straps and batteries included. How heavy is your Bugari 96 bass unit?

On the other hand, there are other options out there... but you need to be aware that if all you are looking for are drum sounds, it's important to know in what context you want to use them...
- Do you want to use it just for at home pleasure?
- Do you gig publicly?
- Are you a professional?
- Do you need more than just drums, or would you benefit from or prefer an arranger that can play accompaniment to your playing and follow your bass line changes?
- what is your budget?

Last question (for the moment)... promise.
Do you understand the functional differences between a drum machine and the manual drumming that a 4X would require?

 

[Valski]

H

I have not purchased a new accordion in 20 years (last one was a Bugari 96 bass - nice and small!). I am considering a Roland FR-4x or FR-1x. But I am worried the FR-1x keyboard may be too small. But the FR-4x looks kind of heavy. I am a female, so have always loved the portability of my 96 bass Bugari, but want some drums accompaniment.

On the other hand, if all I want is drum accompaniment, should I get the Roland at all? I don't have a lot of time to learn the electronics, so perhaps there is a different solution?

Hello Ruth,
Welcome to the Forum. I own the Roland Fr8x and love it. I also look forward to your answers regarding JerryPH's questions because you will need to identify what your primary requirements are. However if you're looking primarily to light weight and full size you might want to consider Musictech accordions. These accordions are quite different from the Roland models and my Roland dealer also offers these accordions to people who need something light weight. According to the brochure they are under 12 lbs, with a full size keyboard and 120 bass buttons.

In any case there is a learning curve because these digital instruments are close to acoustic accordions, but still completely different. It's a lot of fun in any case and you should go to a dealer and try them out first.

 

[Ben-jammin]

If you just want drums for practicing with you can get an app on a tablet or old smartphone that plays looped drum samples for next to nothing. You might need some sort of amp/speaker.

 

[Ruth]

Welcome to the forum!

The factory specs state that the 4X weights just under 20 pounds without straps, so let's say 22 pounds straps and batteries included. How heavy is your Bugari 96 bass unit?

On the other hand, there are other options out there... but you need to be aware that if all you are looking for are drum sounds, it's important to know in what context you want to use them...
- Do you want to use it just for at home pleasure?
- Do you gig publicly?
- Are you a professional?
- Do you need more than just drums, or would you benefit from or prefer an arranger that can play accompaniment to your playing and follow your bass line changes?
- what is your budget?

Last question (for the moment)... promise.
Do you understand the functional differences between a drum machine and the manual drumming that a 4X would require?

I am so sorry, I didn't expect responses so quickly and am so excited you all know so much. I do gig publicly, either solo or with a violinist. I am not a professional, but have had many paid gigs over the last 20 years. I think it would be better if I had an arranger of some kind - it would be nice to program some back up in and then accompany the tracks - since I play all the same songs rather the same way, I would get a lot of mileage out of an arrangement. Although even just having the drums would be nice. I think my budget is somewhere between $4k and $10k. My main hurdle is that I don't have a ton of time to spend on learning technology because I sit in front of a computer all day anyway.

 

[Ruth]

I am so sorry, I didn't expect responses so quickly and am so excited you all know so much. I do gig publicly, either solo or with a violinist. I am not a professional, but have had many paid gigs over the last 20 years. I think it would be better if I had an arranger of some kind - it would be nice to program some back up in and then accompany the tracks - since I play all the same songs rather the same way, I would get a lot of mileage out of an arrangement. Although even just having the drums would be nice. I think my budget is somewhere between $4k and $10k. My main hurdle is that I don't have a ton of time to spend on learning technology because I sit in front of a computer all day anyway.

Also, I think I can guess the difference between the manual drumming and the back up. One accompanies my bass hand, so the rhythm is set by me, and the other is like a backing track. Is that correct?

 

[JerryPH]

Hi Ruth,

"I would get a lot of mileage out of an arrangement. Although even just having the drums would be nice. I think my budget is somewhere between $4k and $10k. My main hurdle is that I don't have a ton of time to spend on learning technology because I sit in front of a computer all day anyway."

OK, so what I am thinking is something like the Roland FR-4x, with either the Richard Noel Sets and/or the sets from Dale Mathis. I tend to lean more towards the Richard Noel sets because that means you can get your 4X from anyone, for the Dale Mathis sounds, they come only from Dale Mathis.

Heads up, any digital instrument is going to take a serious investment in time to learn it, but once over that hump the advantages are there to be taken care of. I lean more towards the 4X over the 8X just because of a size/weight savings. Please forgive me if I am wrong, but just guessing by the name that you are a lady? The 4X is a much better choice... but there are ladies that play the 8X (and men that play the 4X) and benefit from it's advantages.

I strongly suggest getting the Richard Noel sets as he has a ton of sounds already pre-made for different kinds of music and saves you time learning to program the sounds on the accordion... which, like it or not, can be a big part of the ownership experience if you are the kind of person that really wants to customize your sounds to your tastes.

"Also, I think I can guess the difference between the manual drumming and the back up. One accompanies my bass hand, so the rhythm is set by me, and the other is like a backing track. Is that correct?"

Correct and a couple more things. An external arranger plays at a fixed beat that you follow. It requires extra learning time to use properly and also to get acclimated to being able to start/stop and insert "variations" or "mini drum solos" by foot. There are also integrated/automatic backing tracks, meaning you have a background of other instruments playing with you. On a digital accordion, you usually have the bass and/or snare drum on the first 2 rows of the bass and/or the snare/cymbals on the chord buttons. All V-accordions can turn in to a Free Bass instrument if that is in your plans too.

I use an 8X with a Roland BK-7m. And that brings up another challenge... the BK-7m is a discontinued unit. IMHO this is the best bang for your dollar as they are both made by Roland and made to work with each other. They come up relatively often for sale, so thats a pretty good thing.

My recommendation is that you start with the V-accordion, it will give you all the sonic variations that you can really enjoy but keep your eyes open for a used BK-7m and pick it up when you feel ready.

I like to believe that I have a setup that is literally the 2nd best possible setup to have (*the* best setup for me and my needs)... a Roland FR-8X, a BK-7m (and another arranger, the Ketron X4 if I want) and my setup is extremely complex, but that results in me not only being completely wireless, but from my iPad, I choose a song to be displayed and the 8X and BK are completely and automatically reprogrammed to meet the needs of the song, so for me to completely change the sounds on the 8X, choose the different rhythm, speed, drum variation and intro all at once takes nothing more than a single press of a wireless bluetooth pedal.



This is a very advanced setup, not something that I would ever suggest anyone start with.

Getting in to the digital world can be an extremely exciting and rewarding but it does have it's challenges. There is a time investment to get the most out of it (though if you just turn it on, it is no harder to play than any accordion!). Expectations... digital accordions are NOT acoustic accordions. They feel different, act different, have different bellows and keyboard feel, but if you set proper expectations you will be fine and are also ready to do things on them that is just simply impossible to do on an acoustic.

It's an amazing ride, one that I have been enjoying for a while now (first electronic accordion came to me in the early 80's... lol) and I've had the 8X and enjoyed it completely, challenges and all, since November 2016.

 

[Ruth]

Jerry, that is amazing information. I may try to work up the courage to launch into the 4x based on your encouragement. Can you tell me a little about the difference between the Dale Mathis set up and the Richard Noel set up? I saw the videos of Dale Mathis but do not know of the Richard Noel set up. The simpler the better for me! I will invest time in the electronics but only a little at a time. It could be fun. Thank you so much. I liked your video and that is amazing how you have the set up!

 

[Pipemajor]

Richard Noel also has many videos on you tube.
I think the main difference between them is that to get the Dale Mathis sets, you have to buy a Roland V accordion from his Shop.
He doesn't sell the sets alone, whereas Richard Noel does sell the sets separately.

 

[John M]

I purchased the Richard Noel sets and am very satisfied with them. An added plus for me is, I learned a lot about the User Programs and can make small changes to them for certain tone qualities I like. For the 8X, you get nice documentation of the User programs, (32 Banks with 14 Register settings for each Bank). There is a name description of the instrument for each register. His detailed step by step installation instructions are great. If you have any question, he responds the same day with an answer. For example, on many of his User programs he programs Chin switch #1 to turn the drums On/Off to accompany the left hand. Usually the default is Drums Off. On one User program the default was Drums On. I would always have to actuate the chin switch to turn them off. I sent Richard an e-mail and he told me how to switch the default to Drums Off when the User program was selected.

With the Dale Mathis sets, the accordion comes with the programs installed. On his video he comments that if you have any problem and need to do a reinstall of the programs, just call him and he will lead you through the installation process. I prefer to do my own initial installation. Then I know how things work and I can do it myself if I ever need to in the future.

John M.

 

[Ruth]

Okay, I bought a new black 4x from Bananas at Large in CA, and a used bk-7m from Reverb and am about to crack 'em open and give it a shot. Reached out to Richard Noel for his user program sets so hopefully he will respond soon. From the videos I have watched, it looks crazy complicated. Like rocket science. I might have to retire from my day job to figure this new accordion out. If anyone has any tips, hints or tricks, I can use them.

 

[Valski]

The Fr4x with the Bk7m is a great set up. It will give you much joy, especially when you're getting the Richard Noel sets. It's nice to use a pedal to control the BK7M however the original FC-7 has been discontinued for quite a time. You can learn the new devices simply by using them. The Richard Noel sets are a lot of fun on their own so you might get sidetracked and not use the BK7M much to start with. You can't really go wrong so have some fun. I like to try different backing tracks for the same songs and it really opens up my perspective on possibilities.

 

[Ruth]

Thanks for your response. You were right, it was not as hard as I thought and the different sets that came with the accordion and the drum backing were very fun right out of the gate. Richard Noel has sent me his user sets so I will learn how to program those into the accordion today. The bk-7m is out of the box but may not get too much use for a bit. I had no idea I would sound so good with this accordion! I thought it would be stiff or not feel like a real accordion but the keyboard is wonderful and I have the settings so the bellows feel right. Very surprised how fun this would be.

Okay, I bought a new black 4x from Bananas at Large in CA, and a used bk-7m from Reverb and am about to crack 'em open and give it a shot. Reached out to Richard Noel for his user program sets so hopefully he will respond soon. From the videos I have watched, it looks crazy complicated. Like rocket science. I might have to retire from my day job to figure this new accordion out. If anyone has any tips, hints or tricks, I can use them.

 

[Ventura]

OMG

bananas at large is still around ? !

they were one of the first MIDI and music stores to open and
were a preferred retailer for Atari, apple, and barefoot software among other
such early stuff

they even had a monthly newsletter that was mailed (not e-mailed) out across
the USA to contacts and customers

 

[Ruth]

As far as I know they are locally owned and have 2 stores, one in San Rafael and one in Santa Rosa. They are an exclusive Roland dealer, so I thought it would be a good bet to buy the V accordion from them.

 

[JerryPH]

Okay, I bought a new black 4x from Bananas at Large in CA, and a used bk-7m from Reverb and am about to crack 'em open and give it a shot. Reached out to Richard Noel for his user program sets so hopefully he will respond soon. From the videos I have watched, it looks crazy complicated. Like rocket science. I might have to retire from my day job to figure this new accordion out. If anyone has any tips, hints or tricks, I can use them.

A good friend of mine just recently bought a 4X. First piece of advice is to go slowly with the accordion, take the time to learn it before adding an arranger. I myself bought the 8X and BK-7m within weeks of each other, however I purposely did not touch the BK-7m for 6 months so that I could learn the 8X. It is **easy** to drown yourself in info and get frustrated and just want to put it down.

Rule 1: SLOW and EASY. Taking your time is smart here. Learn your 4X piece by piece. Learn the basics and add 1 "trick" before moving on to the next.

Rule 2: After you are comfy with the accordion, you are going to want to know what sounds it can do. Document the locations (sets/upg's registers) that you like the sounds of. I used to choose a registration and find a song that fit that sound and wrote that down.

Rule 3: Opening the world of arrangers is another world unto itself. It will demand that you learn another piece of complicated kit, and not just that, but now you must learn to coordinate left hand, right hand AND the right foot to turn on/off the BK and when to toss in a nice change of variation/bass solo. Did I mention to go slow and NOT get frustrated?

Fast question... did you get a foot pedal with your BK? Using it without one is overly challenging and frustrating. Having a couple of foot pedals that give you access to BK's basic functionality is almost a must.

This is one of the topics people can write a book about, but the theme is "slow and steady" wins the race here.

 

[Tom]

This is one of the topics people can write a book about, but the theme is "slow and steady" wins the race here.

.........or make a video about.

 

[Ruth]

I am definitely going to take your advice, Jerry for all the reasons you stated. I do think the arranger is going to add an entire new level of frustration for me. I like your 6 months suggestion. I am having a lot of fun with the accordion itself and had no idea there would be so much variety and ways to amuse myself. My son, who is 11, and plays the piano was hanging around me while I played the other day, very interested at how I sounded like an entire band. He even asked to try it. Who knows, we may end up with another accordionist! It really is a fantastic accordion. I didn’t realize how nice the keyboard would be too. Didn’t realize it would be of such good quality and be so entertaining. I was thinking the arranger would help for me and my violinist friend to arrange some of our songs, but I think I can do a lot just with the drum backing within the accordion. I didn’t realize how great my bass could sound. Nice to have a drummer that is so perfect at following along, too!

 

[JerryPH]

Yup, you are just now discovering the power of a digital accordion... and the good news is that there is a LOT more good times to come.