• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks (Click the "X" to the top right of this message to disable it)

Wireless Stereo

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nice to read these reports and good to support his product outside of the big manufacturers.

So i guess he needs to focus on getting 48v on the sender and a bit off the latency?
 
He has a beta prototype unit that he showed me with a latency time of 4ms, however the performance is currently terrible, so lots more work needed there. No predicted release date.

I am seeing that getting 48 volts is a nice option, but nothing all that hard to do. There are so many options out there now where a couple of "AA" or a 9 volt batteries are enough to create the needed phantom power for several hours. Look at the popular line of Zoom recorders as evidence of that.

Today I hope to find the time to make my custom cabling for the V-Accordion and possibly test out a setup that might let me use the internal preamp with this wireless kit. If it doesn't work, I'll just stay the way I am now or go the way of the affordable wireless lavalier and be done with it. :)
 
JerryPH post_id=56642 time=1522412961 user_id=1475 said:
He has a beta prototype unit that he showed me with a latency time of 4ms, however the performance is currently terrible, so lots more work needed there. No predicted release date.

I am seeing that getting 48 volts is a nice option, but nothing all that hard to do. There are so many options out there now where a couple of AA or a 9 volt batteries are enough to create the needed phantom power for several hours. Look at the popular line of Zoom recorders as evidence of that.

Today I hope to find the time to make my custom cabling for the V-Accordion and possibly test out a setup that might let me use the internal preamp with this wireless kit. If it doesnt work, Ill just stay the way I am now or go the way of the affordable wireless lavalier way and be done with it. :)

When all said and done, you have to think about the stage performer. Right now, I have my Shure wireless headset mic with the bodypack on my belt. And the G10 plugged into accordion. When I go on break, I Set the accordion down, put the headset mic around my shoulder. No need to disconnect anything.
Lately, I have been having problems with cables especially those mini stereo cables. Some low cost ones out there appear the barrels are slight smaller in diameter and make poor connection. So I would watch out for those Dollar Store brands.
Jerry, Looking at your shop, I believe you are going to come up with a clean solution on this. There is always room for improvement.
 
I have around $1000 -$1200 invested in my wireless system, Line 6 G10, Shure wireless headset and MidiJet. Have not had any major issues in the last 12 months. Lots of money to spend but reliability is important.
This does not include my other blunders - Audio Technica, Midi Beam experiments which probably is ok in the home studio? Now in storage...had problems with these devices in the field.
This unit is still something I would like to try, maybe just for the accordion?...hooking up the lavalier to the same unit seems like a cool idea. But Since you have the unit in hand, need your final observation before I dip in my wallet.
 
Keymn post_id=56646 time=1522423426 user_id=2502 said:
I have around $1000 -$1200 invested in my wireless system...
This unit is still something I would like to try, maybe just for the accordion?...hooking up the lavalier to the same unit seems like a cool idea. But Since you have the unit in hand, need your final observation before I dip in my wallet.

Even at that, the $1000-$1200 is not a big investment for a working musician that does paid gigs and playing situations where if things dont work, you dont get calling in the following week. If I was working, I could justify spending 3 times that amount to get the performance/reliability I needed.

For me now, I can get away with using anything as I am not using these in anything even close to a professional environment. At most, if I can make home videos and not trip over cables, I am a happy man. Its more about learning and fooling around, thats pretty much the definition of a hobby for me. As long as its fun, I keep going. When it stops being fun, I stop doing it. My time on this earth is not all that much longer... no need to waste it doing stuff I dont like... right? :)
 
JerryPH post_id=56651 time=1522429309 user_id=1475 said:
Keymn post_id=56646 time=1522423426 user_id=2502 said:
I have around $1000 -$1200 invested in my wireless system...
This unit is still something I would like to try, maybe just for the accordion?...hooking up the lavalier to the same unit seems like a cool idea. But Since you have the unit in hand, need your final observation before I dip in my wallet.

Even at that, the $1000-$1200 is not a big investment for a working musician that does paid gigs and playing situations where if things dont work, you dont get calling in the following week. If I was working, I could justify spending 3 times that amount to get the performance/reliability I needed.

For me now, I can get away with using anything as I am not using these in anything even close to a professional environment. At most, if I can make home videos and not trip over cables, I am a happy man. Its more about learning and fooling around, thats pretty much the definition of a hobby for me. As long as its fun, I keep going. When it stops being fun, I stop doing it. My time on this earth is not all that much longer... no need to waste it doing stuff I dont like... right? :)

Well said...<EMOJI seq=1f60a>?</EMOJI>. Setting up my studio, maybe use the old wireless stuff. Hope to get videos of my wireless/ Bluetooth stuff to share. When
You retire (I do like hearing if), you will have your accordion stuff to keep you busy. Keep me posted...
 
btw, I was thinking about something

Does this system mean I can strap two dynamics on the outside of my accordion, and feed them via some Y-cable into a TRS jack into the sender. The reciever feeds its TRS into two channels on the desk. Then I have treble and bass on two seperate channels at the mixing desk for the sound guy to mix as he sees fit.

That would be nice
 
jozz post_id=56911 time=1523134540 user_id=2600 said:
Does this system mean I can strap two dynamics on the outside of my accordion, and feed them via some Y-cable into a TRS jack into the sender. The reciever feeds its TRS into two channels on the desk. Then I have treble and bass on two seperate channels at the mixing desk for the sound guy to mix as he sees fit.
Yes. I made my own custom cabling that does just that. I mean it takes a stereo input and splits it out in to two mono connectors for the 8Xs 2 mono channels (left and right) and sends that to the receiver, where it gets split from a 1/4 TRS to two 1/4 TS connectors to input in to my home Mackie mixer or to the Zoom F4 when I am outside of my home.

http://www.AccordionMemories.com/wireless-2/

jozz post_id=56911 time=1523134540 user_id=2600 said:
That would be nice
One of the easiest things to do with these things, but I personally would not like the look of that setup. :)
 
JerryPH post_id=59044 time=1525940516 user_id=1475 said:
but I personally would not like the look of that setup. :)

I dont know but it might be fun to re-purpose some drum microphone kit
 
jozz post_id=59046 time=1525945372 user_id=2600 said:
JerryPH post_id=59044 time=1525940516 user_id=1475 said:
but I personally would not like the look of that setup. :)

I dont know but it might be fun to re-purpose some drum microphone kit
But of course... go for it, and enjoy it... and dont forget to let us know how it works for you!
 
I just caution anytime you add cabling to your setup. It is always the weakest point. At home studio ok, but in the field, a different story.
I am not sure of the advantage of stereo with accordion or arranger for live performance? Maybe ok in studio or home recording to get that wide feel. Especially when listing to tracks in your car or headphone.
I am glad for your talents and time to test and share results.
 
I see it more as fun and games, and I guess it's different with V-accordions but I don't know of any system besides the Limex wireless adapter and receiver that can do that for an acoustic. But those are some $$$'s, and builtin, and this with two small dynamics like the e904 you could take of again.

So this might be a creative way out, and still pretty robust if the wireless gadget delivers.
 
jozz post_id=59081 time=1526018185 user_id=2600 said:
I see it more as fun and games, and I guess its different with V-accordions but I dont know of any system besides the Limex wireless adapter and receiver that can do that for an acoustic. But those are some $$$s, and builtin, and this with two small dynamics like the e904 you could take of again.

So this might be a creative way out, and still pretty robust if the wireless gadget delivers.

That is one of my biggest pleasures, playing around, finding and learning new little things like this. I think that a general attitude of anything goes is a great way to start. Of course there are obvious advantages to every different style of system out there. At this point in life, I made the decision to not invest in internal microphones on my acoustic accordion (though I still have that project in mind of making my own internal set one day), instead opting for a pair of external multi-pattern mics (didnt *really* need a multi-pattern mic, but it goes back to that fun thing and experimentation) with a nice external recorder. Im not an active public performer, so I can get away with pretty much anything I want to do in my basement. If I was still performing, Id never go near external mics, and then miss out on all those advantages that externals offer.

BTW, that E904 has a couple of traits that are not really optimized for capturing the best accordion sound possible. First, though they say it is a Cardioid, the pattern is tighter than traditional, so one may need at least 2 of these mics on the right hand to equally capture the sound in an even level from top to bottom.

Second, they are a dynamic mic and they are designed for high volume percussion instruments. Each of those two traits individually means that they output a lower volume and lower electrical signal. Placed together, this means that whatever pre-amp they go in to will have to be cranked up quite a bit higher to get a useable signal and that usually introduces more noise in to the channel unless you are using a really good quality preamp with a lot of clean gain available.

Again, for playing around, wont make the smallest difference, so if you do this, take a few pictures, make a few recordings and share... Id love to see and hear the results. :)
 
JerryPH post_id=59093 time=1526034433 user_id=1475 said:
jozz post_id=59081 time=1526018185 user_id=2600 said:
I see it more as fun and games, and I guess its different with V-accordions but I dont know of any system besides the Limex wireless adapter and receiver that can do that for an acoustic. But those are some $$$s, and builtin, and this with two small dynamics like the e904 you could take of again.

So this might be a creative way out, and still pretty robust if the wireless gadget delivers.

That is one of my biggest pleasures, playing around, finding and learning new little things like this. I think that a general attitude of anything goes is a great way to start. Of course there are obvious advantages to every different style of system out there. At this point in life, I made the decision to not invest in internal microphones on my acoustic accordion (though I still have that project in mind of making my own internal set one day), instead opting for a pair of external multi-pattern mics (didnt *really* need a multi-pattern mic, but it goes back to that fun thing and experimentation) with a nice external recorder. Im not an active public performer, so I can get away with pretty much anything I want to do in my basement. If I was still performing, Id never go near external mics, and then miss out on all those advantages that externals offer.

BTW, that E904 has a couple of traits that are not really optimized for capturing the best accordion sound possible. First, though they say it is a Cardioid, the pattern is tighter than traditional, so one may need at least 2 of these mics on the right hand to equally capture the sound in an even level from top to bottom.

Second, they are a dynamic mic and they are designed for high volume percussion instruments. Each of those two traits individually means that they output a lower volume and lower electrical signal. Placed together, this means that whatever pre-amp they go in to will have to be cranked up quite a bit higher to get a useable signal and that usually introduces more noise in to the channel unless you are using a really good quality preamp with a lot of clean gain available.

Again, for playing around, wont make the smallest difference, so if you do this, take a few pictures, make a few recordings and share... Id love to see and hear the results. :)

Jerry, I like you philosophy. You utilized lastest technology and mix it with Old School ideas.
I am set with my wireless system as mentioned, but since I upgraded with Cakewalk by BandLab, interested in DAW more then ever. There is an interesting plugin with this software: mic simulator which I have not tried. Take any mic and simulate expensive studio mics.
 
Keymn post_id=59095 time=1526039398 user_id=2502 said:
I am set with my wireless system as mentioned, but since I upgraded with Cakewalk by BandLab, interested in DAW more then ever. There is an interesting plugin with this software: mic simulator which I have not tried. Take any mic and simulate expensive studio mics.
As if. A mic signal is one-dimensional. Expensive studio mics are expensive because of their SNR ratio and their polar frequency response, namely the way they map a complex acoustic situation into a one-dimensional signal. If you simulate instrument, room, and mic, you can simulate the effects of a mic on more than a point sound source in unlimited space. But the take any mic idea already locks you onto a one-dimensional view of complex acoustics with a given SNR ratio. Its like unbaking lemon meringue pie and making an apple tart from the recovered ingredients by, among others, taking out everything lemon and adding apple instead.

A bit of EQ does not change one microphone into a different one.
 
Geronimo post_id=59096 time=1526040526 user_id=2623 said:
Keymn post_id=59095 time=1526039398 user_id=2502 said:
I am set with my wireless system as mentioned, but since I upgraded with Cakewalk by BandLab, interested in DAW more then ever. There is an interesting plugin with this software: mic simulator which I have not tried. Take any mic and simulate expensive studio mics.
As if. A mic signal is one-dimensional. Expensive studio mics are expensive because of their SNR ratio and their polar frequency response, namely the way they map a complex acoustic situation into a one-dimensional signal. If you simulate instrument, room, and mic, you can simulate the effects of a mic on more than a point sound source in unlimited space. But the take any mic idea already locks you onto a one-dimensional view of complex acoustics with a given SNR ratio. Its like unbaking lemon meringue pie and making an apple tart from the recovered ingredients by, among others, taking out everything lemon and adding apple instead.

A bit of EQ does not change one microphone into a different one.

As for singing, I like headset mic while playing the accordion. Presently, I use the Shure SM35 which is cardiod, but would prefer a Beta 54 with super cardioid pattern, more direct. Bit more expensive...both great when close proximity to speakers. Not sure how Cakewalk simulates mics?
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SM35TQG--shure-sm35-tqg
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/WBH54B--shure-beta-54-wbh54
 
Keymn post_id=59098 time=1526046146 user_id=2502 said:
As for singing, I like headset mic while playing the accordion. Presently, I use the Shure SM35 which is cardiod, but would prefer a Beta 54 with super cardioid pattern, more direct. Bit more expensive...both great when close proximity to speakers.
For close positioning like with a headset, I dont think there is such a thing as more direct for super cardioid. You are direct anyway.

I consider the suppression direction more important: a cardioid has its principal suppression right opposite to its front. That tends to be reasonably straightforward to navigate for feedback suppression. A supercardioid with its narrower lobes makes it easier to capture your singing while not capturing the accordion, though. Its a nice tool for singling out one of several sound sources. Its harder to position though, and the coloring of mostly suppressed sound sources is part of what distinguishes seriously expensive microphones from ridiculously expensive microphones.

A lot of directness issues can be addressed by just get closer, and for that, a cardioid is easier to aim.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top