Whatever happened to the Proxima?

[Tommaso B]

Been a long time since it was first brought to light....production problems surely would have been solved by now--if it was ever really a legitimate and marketable accordion. Petosa still lists it as one of its inventory brands but no longer predicts availability. I once had some interest in it, but I've moved on.....

 

[Alan Sharkis]

That’s a question I’d love to see answered. There was a small production run pre-Covid which quickly sold out. Then, Covid came, chips were scarce and one chip factory was destroyed by fire. That was the latest excuse, and it’s probably two years old by now. Other than that, silence.

 

[JerryPH]

Hmmmm. I gave my comment about this man/brand/way of doing business in another thread... but I will suggest that you don't hold your breathe waiting.

 

[SteveBox]

I queried Petosa (their USA dealer) about the status of the Proxima last November, and again recently. Petosa continues to believe that the company is healthy, and that they have solved most of their production issues. Petosa now suggests early 2025 for availability, but as Jerry has said, don't hold your breath.

Proxima created a lot of doubt and ridicule by announcing this product long before it was ready. Did Roland do that with their V-accordions? Is this the Italian way of announcing new products? They have used the pandemic as an excuse, but it was announced in 2021 (the date of their YouTube videos) during the pandemic, so it is not like that was unexpected.

Are we anticipating the Proxima thinking it will be the best digital accordion ever? We really don't know how it will compare to those that are already available (Roland, Evo, Cavagnolo, Musictech, etc). Petosa told me they have a prototype available for audition. Has anyone who lives in the Seattle area tried it? My impression is that their dealers in Europe also have prototypes available to try.

For some technical speculation... On Proxima's website, they have a photo of the internal electronics.



One can see that the sound chip they are using is a Dream SAM5716B:

https://docs.dream.fr/pdf/Serie5000/SAM_Datasheets/SAM5716B.pdf

This is a sample playback and synthesis chip that is also used in the V3Sound "Accordion Master XXL" and their other sound expander modules. Here is the sound board from inside a V3Sound expander. Does this chip and related components look similar to that above?



So I speculate that the sound generation of the Proxima is mainly sample based. Could it also be that they are outsourcing the sound design to V3Sound or another similar company that has already done extensive sampling of many accordions and other instruments? Why would Proxima want to do all of that work themselves if they could contract it out? Just speculation.

 

[John M]

Very Interesting -- borrowing from V3Sound for the Accordion sound.

From what I could see from Proxima's description video, they don't have an independent organ section such as the Roland 8X, where there is a memory section dedicated to duplicate the sound and controls identical to the B3 Drawbar organ.

Proxima does advertise several organ sounds. I believe these would be like the Orchestral organ sounds of the Roland 8X, i.e; Church Organ, Theater Organ, Cathedral Organ, etc.

 

[SteveBox]

Very Interesting -- borrowing from V3Sound for the Accordion sound.

It is only my speculation that V3Sound might be involved, as it appears to be the same technology that V3Sound uses. Other digital music companies must use the Dream chips as well and would also have the expertise to assist Proxima. It would make sense for them to leverage as much outside help as possible, and not try to do everything by themselves from scratch. Proxima is not Roland, who design their own chips.

 

[JerryPH]

Has anyone though to reach out to Marco Cinaglia on Facebook? Though truth is, I’d be very hard pressed to believe him if he told me the sun would rise tomorrow morning… lol

The business model was always to use mostly “borrowed” tech, the size of the company would not permit it to do any more. First they borrowed crippled 8X tech from Roland, and to save costs, they likely are repeating the process again.

Looking at the Dream chip, it’s likely already outdated. The industry is now led by Ketron and their Lounge and Event X products… and the price reflects it… and they are already not bleeding edge anymore, even if they are the best sound modules out there. If I was going anywhere, that is where I would be looking today.

 

[dak]

and they are already not bleeding edge anymore, even if they are the best sound modules out there.

What would be a reason to pick the bleeding edge over the best?

 

[JerryPH]

What would be a reason to pick the bleeding edge over the best?

The way that I meant it, “bleeding edge” = latest out there = “the best”.

 

[Ventura]

actually, now, it would make more sense for things to shift BACK to
good ol' MIDI

given that Bellows and Velocity sensitivity are now ubiquitous from a tech standpoint,
there is no longer a need for the proprietary interface of some closed system
accordion looking object

obviously, real bellows and a traditional dual pivot rod pro quality key action
are going to trump a full digital accordion any day fo most of us, while the
tonality elitists can continue to spend exhorbitant amounts of money for
marginally more realistic accordion modeling and sound (as we have seen
in practice for some time now) and to no real betterment, as it is unreacheable and
impractical to expect a digital to ever meet the lofty imaginations of the rich and powerful.

so back to MIDI, with excellent touch and feel and natural comfort, with the bulk of the
investment targeted to the acoustic components, so you will have BOTH excellent
control over whatever MIDI tone generator(s) you care to array, with the one true accordion
available at a moments squeeze perfect tone and response.. a mere heartbeat
away at any given moment

add to this the profound simplicity of control over the tone selection and blends
when using simple MIDI as the controller

 

[JerryPH]

I would not be against that except that the Roland kinda spoiled me for life with over 50 internal “accordions” so it would have to be one AMAZING accordion to make me want to go back to the acoustic/digital hybrid solution.

 

[Ventura]

i agree, Doctor, that for the players who enjoy Roland for what they
ARE
and what they offer in onboard variety... life can indeed be good

it is for those who are perpetually dissatisfied and stymied by the complexity
and who never enjoy the full range of those 50 accordions, which at times
seems to be that vast majority of owners, that simple MIDI and one damn good acoustic
would perhaps be a much more reqarding and comfortable solution

i offer my perspective, as compared to two of our high-end Box Men, who recently
explained why they pick up their Rolands over their 960's, because i personally
pick up the 960 more often simply because it is vastly quicker and more rewarding
to practice with., It is plugged into a Virtual Cordovox (with real live drawbars)
and acts like a good old reliable simple Organ-Accordion, which is transparent in it's
use, allowing me to focus soley on the music i am practicing, working on..

and it gives me the old fashined power of Fire and Brimstone one can only get with
Reeds and Organs in such a combination of immediate attack and response

 

[JerryPH]

Besides, aren’t the Proxima not making a 41/120 anyway? It’s slated to be a smaller box, and at least for me, that immediately places it out of the running… but that’s personal choice now, nothing more.

 

[Ffingers]

The way that I meant it, “bleeding edge” = latest out there = “the best”.

Beware of idioms - they do not always cross cultural boundaries well.
My Spanish lady friend and I often get out proverbial "tits in a tangle" or "knickers in a twist" over linguistic "false friends" of many kinds and idioms are no exception.

 

[JerryPH]

Thanks, that is true enough.

 

[dak]

The industry is now led by Ketron and their Lounge and Event X products… and the price reflects it… and they are already not bleeding edge anymore, even if they are the best sound modules out there.

The way that I meant it, “bleeding edge” = latest out there = “the best”.

So to me it sounds as if you are saying that Ketron are already not the best anymore, even if they are are the best.

Could you try phrasing this in a more fool-proof manner for my sake?

 

[JerryPH]

Sure... there is no more modern and are
currently the best arrangers out there. They have also now been out 2 and 4 years respectively (Lounge and Event X). In a computer based industry where advances are made every month, a 4 year old module can't really be called new.

It's like the 8X, it may be the best but it's far from staye of the art.

 

[dak]

It's like the 8X, it may be the best but it's far from staye of the art.

I think that where we differ is that you are willing to call non-existing things "cutting-edge" and state of the art. Like the annoying procession of battery technology breakthroughs that somehow don't appear to make much of a perceivable difference to what you can actually buy.

 

[Ffingers]

I think that where we differ is that you are willing to call non-existing things "cutting-edge" and state of the art. Like the annoying procession of battery technology breakthroughs that somehow don't appear to make much of a perceivable difference to what you can actually buy.

It is often not possible to buy “state of the Art” developments.
There are often commercial and financial reasons why “state of the Art” concepts are purposely kept from the buying public, Sony Beta PVRs being just one small example.

 

[dunlustin]

Re: [We] often get out proverbial "tits in a tangle"
In the UK that's likely to be indecent exposure.