Another bass issue with old accordion.

[Mike K]

Getting really frustrated lately. Dealing with 50 plus year old instruments and playing them frequently, having same problems with my 60 year old body and my workouts. Mind is willing but the body keeps having more issues.

Posted a problem recently on my first giulietti. Now my second one has a problem with a bass note sticking. It appears to be when I play a B minor chord that the D# middle reed stays on after the button releases. The button looks like it is moving fine. Does not appear to be sticking or riding against the side of the hole. The other notes and reeds associated with the chord appear to be releasing okay too.

If I hit another button or that one again, that uses that reed, it will close.

I opened up the bass side and it is a nightmare that I really do not want to get into. Looks clean, things appear to be moving freely. I cannot really see the actual mechanism that is opening and closing for that reed. Too much stuff in the way.

Any suggestions on how to fix it. Taking apart the whole left hand mechanism would probably cost me a small fortune.

 

[debra]

First of all the B minor chord does not have a D# but a D but maybe you already realized that.
When you press the button you should see three levers move and when you let go these three should all move back.
Chances are something isn't moving as freely as you think so one of the three levers does not move back as it should.
If another chord with D (like D major or D minor) works fine then it is not the mechanism that moves D that is the problem so then it must be the B minor chord button. You do need to inspect closely what moves and what moves back or doesn't when it should. It isn't as daunting as it looks at first sight.

 

[JIM D.]

Well to start with, (1) remove the pins on the bass machine & remove it.
(2) remove the reed blocks and set them aside.
(3) unscrew the bass strap and remove the bass plate.
(4) depress the B minor button and observe the B minor piston - it will depress 3 pins. - when releasing the button you will see one of the pins that will stay open and not seat. In most cases this (and in your case) the problem is the bass machine will require some lube.
Now these pins are connected to pipes that run horizontally and can be lubed at each end - WD-40 will work fine.
Now you have a very well made bass machine on this box and you should not have to disassemble it to correct your problem.
Now before you start , give this a read to understand the workings of your bass machine (extremely similar to yours) ---

http://www.accordionrevival.com/ACCORDION_REPAIR_2.php#Disassembling_a_bass_machine

 

[Mike K]

Thanks. Now I am even confused as to what note it was. Think it is B major chord....sorry. Need to double check. Pretty sure it was E flat that I was hearing. I was pretty intimated looking at all the pipes. I had it apart but did not remove the reed blocks so I could not see what was staying open. It does not appear to do it "every" time unfortunately, which makes it harder to trouble shoot. I played with some of the other chords and notes that pull in the same reed and I do not "think" they are causing the same condition.

I just spent hours fixing and messing up and refixing my other accordion and I am sort of gun shy. Still do not have the Free Bass issue corrected but everything else appears to work at this moment. I bent some leathers which led to notes out of tune which I had to find and correct. The a wire from the microphone must have been hitting another reed and caused a different note out of tune. Not a pleasant experience. I see a lot more than three moving if I remember correctly. Maybe because it is a full free bass with the extra three rows on top. I will look again this week, maybe take some pictures if I cannot figure it out.

 

[Mike K]

Okay, it is E flat. It was a B major not minor. I was tired and frustrated when I posted.

Anyway, played for about an hour this morning and no problem. Thought it went away. Then it stuck shortly on a C minor chord. Little later stuck for a long time on a F diminished. So it does not appear to be related to the button at all. i took everything apart but i do not understand what I am to do.

I read the accordion repair manual info, which is what scared me about taking it apart.

4) depress the B minor button and observe the B minor piston - it will depress 3 pins. - when releasing the button you will see one of the pins that will stay open and not seat. In most cases this (and in your case) the problem is the bass machine will require some lube.
Now these pins are connected to pipes that run horizontally and can be lubed at each end - WD-40 will work fine.



first picture is an end shot where I can actually see the mechanism that opens but this is for a free bass note. I can see linkage from button to the flap that opens.

Unfortunately the one sticking is in the middle of the assembly. I cannot really see anything because of all the stuff in the way. I do not know where to spray and I do not want to just spray stuff everywhere as it will likely just attract dirt.


Just a picture of the other side with the reed blocks removed. I identified the note but now much you can do from this side.

 

[Mike K]

There are two set of twelve "pipes". One closer to the surface and one deeper in. If you look at picture 1, I am calling the stainless rods visible on the left side, the pipes, not sure that is correct. I sprayed some teflon Dry Lube at each end of the upper set of pipes. So far, it has not helped. Still sticking some of the time. to release it when stuck I need to press the E flat bass note, hitting the chord buttons will not break it loose.

If this is what you wanted me to do, I am confused as to why you had me take the reed blocks out. this accordion was not bad, but my other one it is very tough to get the bass reed blocks back in without damaging the leathers. everything is too tight.

 

[debra]

Taking the reed blocks out (I was not the one suggesting it) allows you to see the effect of button press and release on the inside, where you can see the pallets open and close. You should try to see where something still "goes back" and where it does not.
When you look at the bass mechanism you can push chord buttons that include E flat and then you can flip the E flat lever separately to see what it moves "down below" and where it catches of rubs against something causing friction. It is daunting because the bass mechanism is so complex, but what already helps is a good flashlight to see what goes on in the mechanism.

 

[Mike K]

Good flashlight just reflects off all the shiny metal and gives glare back at you. I will keep trying. Really hard to see anything behind all that mechanism. The sticking one is pretty much right in the middle. 8 positions in from one side.

 

[colinm]

Until you are confident with taking it to pieces i would try to free whatever is sticking using a magnifying glass, a spotlight possible held by someone else and apiece of cunningly bent wire or long tweezers.

But first you need to identify where it is sticking and why

The rod with the button on has a slide at the lower end which may be sticky


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