Bass, baffled, and bewildered, am I

[idelone]

Hello everyone,
I picked up the melodeon last year and got on famously, so three weeks ago I picked up a 120 bass cba, hoping for the same rapid progress. Wrong ! I'm resigned to the fact that my progress will be a little more sedate but am really impressed with the logic of both keyboards, even if the bass side is so incredibly fiddly.
Just for the record, I have played baritone sax in big bands; played saxes in a soul band horn section; fronted, sang, and played saxes in a jump band; built a small recording studio in a basement; studied theory at Goldsmiths (most of which has disappeared into my soggy grey cells). Due to a change in circumstances, I gave up playing but still have my saxes and the recording equipment, although, sadly, not the basement.
I do have a sense of humour, that perhaps might not be evident in the written word, but will try and temper it for the purists amongst you.
Regards to you all, Ian.

 

[Matt Butcher]

Hi Ian, welcome and I'm sure it won't be long before it comes together. And there are plenty of soul fans, jazz lovers and even sax players on here.

 

[Eannain]

Hi there and welcome! Just keep at it and eventually it'll click {}

 

[BobM]

If it’s the bass side that you’re having problems with, get “The Mighty Accordion” pub by Mel Bay. There’s nothing like it, and if you have the discipline of playing other instruments you should wizz though it.

The Stradella system has a lot going it once the penny drops...

BobM.

 

[Soulsaver]

If it’s the bass side that you’re having problems with, get “The Mighty Accordion” pub by Mel Bay. There’s nothing like it, and if you have the discipline of playing other instruments you should wizz though it.

The Stradella system has a lot going it once the penny drops...

BobM.

I know some people who have wizzed through a sax after a session... :lol:

Wellcome aboard, great intro Ian. We (mostly...) like a sense of humour here.

Your syntax/spelling has a Brit feel? Are you In the UK?

So in the wanted section well look out for your basement needed listing?

 

[Anyanka]

Hi & welcome! I wonder how many people manage to master both melodeon and accordion bass: when I tried out The Husband's melodeon last year, I got to grips with the right hand quite quickly, but the bass side defeated me completely...

 

[idelone]

Thank you all for the welcome.

Your syntax/spelling has a Brit feel? Are you In the UK?

I have to admit that I have a French passport but having spent most of my life here I do regard myself as British. My English is better than my French these days. I am living in Ewell in Surrey.

Hi & welcome! I wonder how many people manage to master both melodeon and accordion bass: when I tried out The Husbands melodeon last year, I got to grips with the right hand quite quickly, but the bass side defeated me completely...

Oddly enough, since starting the cba, I have noticed that the melodeon is even easier to play, and with only 12 bass buttons to choose from, even when crossing the bass rows to make up minor chords, its certainly easier to find your way around compared to the size and number on my chromatic, so I take my hat off to anyone who has mastered the bass side. And dont get me wrong, Ive a long way to go before I master the melodeon, its just that relatively speaking it is a simpler instrument, on many levels. What makes me feel that I have just dug a great big hole for myself ? :lol:

If it’s the bass side that you’re having problems with, get “The Mighty Accordion” pub by Mel Bay. There’s nothing like it, and if you have the discipline of playing other instruments you should wizz though it.

The Stradella system has a lot going it once the penny drops...

BobM.

Drat ! I have just sent off for the Richard Galliano accordeon tutor, which should be here next week. I will work through it and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again, Ian.

 

[dunlustin]

Quote
"impressed with the logic of both keyboards, even if the bass side is so incredibly fiddly."
I'm guessing by this you understand how the bass works but miss those big friendly melodeon buttons?
Your cba will have a "dimple" on the C bass. Many also have the E and Ab basses marked. If yours does not, you may find it helps to mark them - this limits how far you can stray without getting some feedback. In the past I've used scraps of cloth Elastoplast - have also heard of tiny bits of Velcro (make sure you can get it off again!) It can also be helpful to keep a very light contact with the buttons when moving between basses.
Similarly on the treble side if you have no markings, many accordions have C and F marked.
I don't know how far on you are but if this helps:
Melodeon simplest L-hand: eg in G - as you know - Push G, (I)Pull D (V)and moving towards the bellows gives you the C (IV)
To get that I V IV on the cba and guessing you'll start in key of C, then I = C is the dimple, V (=G) next one up towards the chin, IV (=F) is one down from C - towards the lap.
As a gym exercise you might like to try just using the bass notes - in a line like the melodeon - eg C G C G C G C G G D G D G D G D C G C G F C F C G D G D C G C G.
Au pays des aveugles....

 

[pentaprism]

If youre looking for a CBA or PA tutor book, read this thread.

 

[dunlustin]

And if ,like me, you're a compulsive buyer of music books etc you may want to look at stuff by Manu Maugain.
Personally I'd avoid the tablet version - although quite nicely done, you can't get all the sheet music visible and sometimes it's nice to just sit in chair with a book.

 

[cat]

greetings and welcome idelone, I miss playing saxes!

 

[idelone]

Quote
impressed with the logic of both keyboards, even if the bass side is so incredibly fiddly.
Im guessing by this you understand how the bass works but miss those big friendly melodeon buttons?

Yes, and how. The cycle of fifths layout isnt a problem, having spent years running patterns and scales over them, its purely the mechanics. How do you stop the fingers drifting off line and hitting either the chord or the counter bass when youre after the bass. Ive been using a mirror to assist me when I drift off but am reluctant to place too much reliance on it; its not always going to be there, is it. Like most things, I suppose, its about familiarisation over time.

If youre looking for a CBA or PA tutor book, read this thread.

Yes, thanks, an interesting and informative thread. I ordered my copy this afternoon, and cant wait for it to arrive.

greetings and welcome idelone, I miss playing saxes!

Yes, me too. I leave the alto out so that I can have a blow to keep my chops in shape, but recently thats not been happening due to work pressure and limited time.

And if ,like me, youre a compulsive buyer of music books etc you may want to look at stuff by Manu Maugain.

Yes, I have to hold my hand up for that one, although I havent seen too many for the cba, but having said that, I did read an enthusiastic endorsement on melnet, for Florence Pinvidics tutor, which I believe is for stradella and three row. For the moment, Ill stick with Richard Gallianos book, unless it it doesnt work for me that is.

 

[Glenn]

The drifting from bass to chord or visa versa is a problem for us all at the beginning.
However, the brain is a clever little thing and somnehow the error rate drops with practise.
It msy sound trite but the more you practice, the lower the error rate.
Another tip for a newcomer is to frequently find one of the marked bass notes, typically C on your travels.
This helps orientate.
Also don't keep the wrist too rigid as the angle changes a little as you move up and down the bass board.
Oh, and finally, I think using a mirror is counter productive. Just try the jumps a few times until you feel it.
Next time you try it it will still go wrong but with a lesser chance until you find it is more right than wrong.

 

[dunlustin]

I second the anti-mirror advice - in the end you'll have to "feel" (memorise) the distances.
As you're happy with chords and stuff, Root Chord, Dominant chord _( c C g C, g G d G ) starts to open out the keyboard. In key C that'll get you to the Dbass - one more step and you can go for A Amin as a choice for Cmajor.
Jumping back gives you the dimple to aim for. And as I said before if your Ebass is marked that gives another "stop.
It's a while ago that I first used Stradella but I think I remember that apart from button size and hand angle the main thing was using the fingertips - not as flat as on melodeon.

 

[idelone]

Oh, and finally, I think using a mirror is counter productive. Just try the jumps a few times until you feel it.
Next time you try it it will still go wrong but with a lesser chance until you find it is more right than wrong.

I second the anti-mirror advice - in the end youll have to feel (memorise) the distances.
As youre happy with chords and stuff, Root Chord, Dominant chord _( c C g C, g G d G ) starts to open out the keyboard. In key C thatll get you to the Dbass - one more step and you can go for A Amin as a choice for Cmajor.
Jumping back gives you the dimple to aim for. And as I said before if your Ebass is marked that gives another stop.
Its a while ago that I first used Stradella but I think I remember that apart from button size and hand angle the main thing was using the fingertips - not as flat as on melodeon.

Thank you. I had a feeling that the mirror was a no-no but it did save a bit of :hb believe me. I have now returned the mirror to the cloakroom and relying solely on feel and sound. While waiting for the tutor to arrive I have been using a simple tune by Les Tetes Raides, called Le Phare which takes me through all of your above mentioned chords, including the Am, so I feel as if Im on the right track. Fortunately I have the dimple plus the star on the E and the Ab, which are really helpful in letting me know if Ive strayed too far.
Yes, but flat fingers make for some terrific chords. :lol:

I generally work things out for myself, but in this instance I was wondering whether it would be a sound investment to take a few one-on-one lessons. How did you guys get it off the ground ?

 

[Glenn]

You can never go wrong with one on one lessons.
However, for the bass they are not so useful.
Youcannot see what you are doing.
The teacher cannot point to a button as you cannot see it
If you look at the teacher's accordion, you have to do a mental transform to your own bass board which (for me at least) is not obvious.
However, the teacher can say "good" now and again which makes you feel you are doinf the right thing.

 

[idelone]

You can never go wrong with one on one lessons.
However, for the bass they are not so useful.
You cannot see what you are doing.
quote]

Have you ever thought of using a mirror ?

 

[BobM]

Have you downloaded a Stradella note chart yet?

BobM.

 

[idelone]

Have you downloaded a Stradella note chart yet?

BobM.

No, but Ive studied the Cypher chart and its fairly logical and fairly fixed in my head. I remember it as the cycle of fifths with flats down and sharps up, bass, Maj, Min, 7th and Dim chords on their own row, with C/Bass being the third of the scale on the row and Maj7th or leading note down the column and the 6th up the column. I havent worked out what goes beyond the octave on the column, eg the eight repeated notes, but Ill get round to that as and when I need them. I really find both keyboards incredibly logical and wonder why the piano keyboard hasnt been superseded by the button system. I hope Im not offending any PA people, its only a newbies observation.

 

[jarvo]

Have you downloaded a Stradella note chart yet?

BobM.

No, but Ive studied the Cypher chart and its fairly logical and fairly fixed in my head. I remember it as the cycle of fifths with flats down and sharps up, bass, Maj, Min, 7th and Dim chords on their own row, with C/Bass being the third of the scale on the row and Maj7th or leading note down the column and the 6th up the column. I havent worked out what goes beyond the octave on the column, eg the eight repeated notes, but Ill get round to that as and when I need them. I really find both keyboards incredibly logical and wonder why the piano keyboard hasnt been superseded by the button system. I hope Im not offending any PA people, its only a newbies observation.[/quote]


What the ....? :shock:

Youve lost me ....at the first Cycle........I just memorised the chart........for my ackordeen......wow, way to go...... :b

Jarvo