Castagnari Vs Saltarelle (chromatics)

[muinin]

Hello there again,

I wrote a similar post 2 weeks ago about castagnari vs serenellini…

I’m almost decided between castagnari magica 5 rows and saltarelle bourroche 5 rows. They’re almost the same, same voices, same registers, same bass, same look…

Anybody can give me some light to this decision? I’m in love with Castagnari aestethics, but Saltarelle is cheaper and has a great sound too. Castagnari makes them and for what I’ve been reading on the internet, Saltarelle doesn’t make them, is only a seller…

Someone who has tried one of these models?

It would be great to read some opinions about it!

thanks!
Albert

 

[george garside]

not absolutely certain but the salterelle may be made by serenellini so may be worth also looking at serenellinis wares. For what its worth I have had a 2 row 3 voice serenellini melodeon that has worked hard for 20 years and has never required any attention and is a pleasure to play. Perhaps not quite 'as good' as a castagnari but a hell of a lot cheaper!. As you go up the pecking order of boxes the law of 'diminishing returns' applies. I.e. a £1200 box would normally be something like twie as good as a £600 box. However a £2000 box would not be anything like twice as good as a £1200 box and there would be even less difference between a £2000 and a £3000 box etc etc.

So its simply down to how you want to spend your money and which box you like best in terms of sound (tone/tuning) reed response and smooth action etc.

george

 

[erictheaccordionist]

I have a Saltarelle bourroche B system. I tried the castagnari and the serenellini before purchasing. My reasons for buying this Saltarelle in preference to the others was, in order;

1) Feel of Bellows action - much more responsive on the saltarelle, especially against the Castagnari
2) weight, the castagnari just feels more bulky/clumsy - I don't like to feel as though I am steering a supertanker when I am actually steering a cruiser.
3) button action/spacing -felt much more responsive on saltarelle and fits my fingers better-However, the Bass buttons are giving me grief, but that is probably my technique as they are a little close together for my thick and short fingers.
4) I personally prefer the saltarelle sound for the music that I play, although I like the sweetness of the castagnari tuning for more melodious french tunes
4) I have been playing saltarelle melodeons for longer than I care to admit and know and trust the brand-the shop that I buy from has a good reputation and when buying i was able to have long conversations about what I wanted and setting the tuning up, I went for a swing tuning. The tuning will be changed once it is run in, I always do that to melodeons once I know what they can sound like, factory tuning is not bespoke.

Two further things.. I am a novice accordionist so when I finally master it I will put some tunes up onto the web, and I am quite happy to host people ( not huge numbers please) who might want to try it.. in return for lessons on how to play the darn thing....
Eric....

 

[muinin]

I have a Saltarelle bourroche B system. I tried the castagnari and the serenellini before purchasing. My reasons for buying this Saltarelle in preference to the others was, in order;

1) Feel of Bellows action - much more responsive on the saltarelle, especially against the Castagnari
2) weight, the castagnari just feels more bulky/clumsy - I dont like to feel as though I am steering a supertanker when I am actually steering a cruiser.
3) button action/spacing -felt much more responsive on saltarelle and fits my fingers better-However, the Bass buttons are giving me grief, but that is probably my technique as they are a little close together for my thick and short fingers.
4) I personally prefer the saltarelle sound for the music that I play, although I like the sweetness of the castagnari tuning for more melodious french tunes
4) I have been playing saltarelle melodeons for longer than I care to admit and know and trust the brand-the shop that I buy from has a good reputation and when buying i was able to have long conversations about what I wanted and setting the tuning up, I went for a swing tuning. The tuning will be changed once it is run in, I always do that to melodeons once I know what they can sound like, factory tuning is not bespoke.

Two further things.. I am a novice accordionist so when I finally master it I will put some tunes up onto the web, and I am quite happy to host people ( not huge numbers please) who might want to try it.. in return for lessons on how to play the darn thing....
Eric....

Thank you Eric for this complete answer!! Im going to go to a Saltarelle dealer in France to test the bourroche (I already have tested the Castagnari Magica). What kind of music do you play? I usually play folk irish music…
I agree with you that the Magica feels a little clumsy… About the tuning… I want a Swing Mosso tune (5cents), what do you mean? The tuning changes once you play it more and more?

About the bass buttons… its practice! theyre quite smaller compared to the melodeons bass buttons!

 

[george garside]

I have a Saltarelle bourroche B system. I tried the castagnari and the serenellini before purchasing. My reasons for buying this Saltarelle in preference to the others was, in order;
Two further things.. I am a novice accordionist so when I finally master it I will put some tunes up onto the web, and I am quite happy to host people ( not huge numbers please) who might want to try it.. in return for lessons on how to play the darn thing....
Eric....

Eric, as an experienced diatonic player there are really only 4 things you need to work on to play a continental box

1. A keyboard chart so that you can work out scales , preferably using only 3 rows i.e. learn 3 scales rather than the one that can be used for 12 keys on a 5 row.

2. practice the 3 scales regularly until you can play them at reasonable speed without having to think about it

3. remember that you always need a new button for a new note i.e. that keeping a button down and giving the bellows a quick waggle does bugger all!

4. Stick initialy to the tunes you already play on the melodeon, irrespective of whether you are playing by ear or from the dots.

( for the benefit of those who dont play a diatonic box No 3 only applies to those who do!)

george

 

[erictheaccordionist]

not a problem, it is payback for all those who have helped me on my musical journey...
I play English/Scottish American/my own stuff on melodeon link to you tube here http://www.youtube.com/user/mal0de0n
But I also like French/Swedish etc.. hence the CBA

as for tuning I know what my ear likes but I cant describe it in technical terms, you can hear on the videos how it is tuned, Martyn Whyte does my tuning. He would be able to tell you the technical cents etc..

Thanks for the advice George, I will try and be more disciplined, rather than trying to play lots of tunes that I think I half know...
Eric

 

[AndyFereday]

I have a Saltarelle Berry DG melodeon and the sound is beautiful. Really refined and expressive. I would imagine their build and tuning ethos extends to CBAs ass well as their melodeons. I recently took my box out to a Morris Day of Dance and it was the most popular instrument there - everyone wanted a play! I think they're made by a nephew of Dino Bafetti, so they're in the Bafetti / Mengascini stable.

I don't think you would be disappointed with the Saltarelle....

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

I want to revive this post because I am thinking for getting a small CBA for use with our Bal Trad band... where the Diatos dominate and my antique 3 voice musettes with funny diapasons will not be aprieciated.

So, several years on has anybody got new thoughts on these or other makes ?

I have tried two Magicas, the K3/60 basses and the next size up, and the Saltarelle Bourroche and one by Verde of a similar size but this was in a noisy festival environment. I have also owned a Maugein Festibal DuoTango... which I did not like.... could not get comfortable with it... Flat keyboard... need for long arms due to small crossection.

I thought the little Castagnari Magica K3 was better than its bigger brother but I prefered the Saltarelle and Verde offerings.

Any suggestions ?

 

[george garside]

if you can't beat them why not join them! Diatonic boxes have a 'power' that is very hard to replicate in a really small CBA or PA. I use a small 2 row MML DG diatonic for ceilidh band work as it has plenty of built in bounce ( when required) and can compete with a much larger cba or pa as far as volume is concerned.

It is also light enough for me to play for an evenings dance without getting knackered ( I have angina and osteo arthritis)


george

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

A sensible suggestion George! I usually play the concertina with this band. It's one factor that makes the band different to most other Bal Trad groups . Adding yet another Diato to the mix , although a tempting idea, would muddy the waters, besides taking me another couple of years to get good enough for the task.

I see your point though.

Thanks anyway,
Geoff.

 

[maugein96]

Just starting to notice these little wooden beauties. Have you considered the Saltarelle Arcadia? Thats one really good looking piece of kit, but its a little bit dearer than the Bourroche. Selling in France for 6390 Euros (ouch!!). If it sounds like the other Saltarelle instruments on You Tube I reckon it would be my first choice if I was looking for a new instrument. Saltarelle were making standard sized chromatics for a while, and they were used by one or two French professionals.

Dont think Id ever go back to a 120 bass again, and these little CBAs seem to be the way to go these days. What a superb looking instrument! Cherry and walnut. I could eat it!


http://www.saltarelle.com/arcadia

http://www.lamalleauxaccordeons.fr/Chromatique-Bois-Saltarelle_Boutons.html

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Yes the Arcadia looks good and it is nice to see Saltarelle expanding their range. A 36 cm high case is a most ideal size too. 6390 euros! That's getting up there near Castagnari prices!

I notice Saltarelle are listing a new model, yet to be unveiled, called Alegro, 80 bass /2 voice.

 

[theneweric]

I am about to receive a Saltarelle Arcadia. It is to replace/ work alongside my bouroche. I spoke to Saltarelle about fitting couplers into the bourroche but it can't be done, but they mentioned the arcadia as an improvement....At the same ish weight and dimensions it is an obviouss (to me) step up. The Bouroche is absolutely gorgeous, but lacks one thing, the bass couplers. I find myself in need of these more and more and so have treated myself. When it arrives direct from Saltarelle some time in the next month I will review it as I did the bourroche ( I was ericthe accordionist until personal incompetence and talktalk meant I had to change my username etc....
It is cherry, with French stradella basses, B system, demi swing tuned. Once I master it enough I will try to post some sound files of it...

Eric

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

A review of the Arcadia ! Now that does sound promising Eric, but in the meantime could you point out where to find your review of the Bourroche please?

 

[theneweric]

Be still oh beating heart.. the arcadia is still a month away from my grubby paws.. but here is the review I did for the bourroche..Note, I did not take it apart.. I am no engineerReview of the Saltarelle Bourroche
This is my first real accordion as I have been playing melodeons for too long, so… what do I think of it?
Specification: B system, LMM Treble, demi-swing tuned Internal factory set up microphones, standard stradella bass
Positives
Looks.. beautiful wood, finish is superb
Weight.. light enough to play standing up and doesn’t cut off blood supply to legs when sitting down. Also is small enough to play off the thighs when sitting down.. so body posture is good.
Sound/ playing. Superb sound, not weak but clear and tuneful, MM reeds as the ‘musette’ I know not strictly true, but it sounds lovely when playing musette style or even most other styles. Single reed provides lovely pipes sound when playing Playford or Airs ( Scottish or Irish, ) and if combined with Drone on Right hand side can emulate Northumbrian pipes.
Single reed at concert pitch is quiet enough to play without annoying your neighbours.. but can be pushed to really sing when playing in concert.
Single low reed is good for more Scandinavian tunes or slower mazurkas.
All 3 reeds gives a powerful but very sweet sound, especially when playing free bass style on left hand. Can sound very orchestral.
Microphones
Provide easy amplification
Negatives only 3
No couplers on Bass. This means that drone bass or block chords on left hand can be a little over whelming when playing single reed on right hand, or lots of bellows work when playing with all reeds. Can be over come by playing light basses.. but I am not that competent yet, also I like the drone/ block style when playing playford etc.
Wood can be damaged easily, do not, I repeat do not have it strapped on and try walking through a narrow door as you may hit the frame and dent it.. I did…Also the straps chip the wood underneath, I have not found a way to stop this.
Single output from microphones is limiting for balancing when playing with other amplified instruments

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Thanks for re-posting your review Eric.

Two things come to mind :

As you also play Saltarelle Melodeons you should be able to make a comparison of loudness between their CBA's and Diatonics ?

You mention "lots of bellows work when playing all reeds". I notice that the bellows is quite long in comparison to larger accordions... would you say this calls for a long arm approach or lots of in and out due to smaller crossectional area of the bellows ?

Straps chipping the wood underneath; have you tried those little elastic socks made for covering the buckles ?

Geoff.

 

[theneweric]

Ok to respond.. loudness vs a melodeon. When I got my saltarelle Connemara 3 it was very quiet and sounded strangled. This was in the ( I think late eighties) so I took it to Nils Nilson. He widened the hole that let air to the reeds and cleaned them up.. sound tone and volume improved. So direct comparison for me is now difficult, however, I think the Bouurroch is quite loud... I can certainly get it to shout.

Socks for straps? good I dea.. I will befriend google and buy some

re: bellows I have short arms and am a melodeon player.. guess which approach I take... it may not be corrct buut it works for me until I can unlearn and relearn to let the bellows fall and still play basses and move my hand and not strectch my fingers on the basses...

 

[losthobos]

Just a quick add to this old post....
I've seen these wee boxes and beautiful as they are i'd been foolish enough to dismiss them as coffee table trinkets / fashion items / status symbols....silly silly me
Whilst at Eastbourne Accordion Festival Peter of Acorn Instruments let me spend a while playing a Castagnari K2 chromatic c system 60 bass..wow...what a wonderful little box, superb action, even better tone (even with just 2 voice)...I kept going back to his stall and probably became slightly addicted to the box and played for a good hour plus...really impressed...I have to swallow my previous thoughts and words...perhaps I shouldn't be so narrow minded
For now I love my Piermaria's but I sure would be tempted in future (when my arms are too tired to weild anything heavy) to invest in perhaps a 3x3 bass C system K3
Also Peter had some very small diatonic Castagnari boxes at 700 pounds..just mentioning as reminded me about post about tiny Russian 'cheponowski' or something like that accordions people were searching out a while back
So basically Castagnari get a massive thumbs up from me