I've heard of flamenco guitarists slapping their soundboards for percussion effects, which is a generally accepted practice. Whacking an accordion grille with a hammer seems a bit of an overkill, You must get quite a nice jingle from the stradella mech rods though.
Folk Accordion: Castagnari Magica
- Thread starter Walker
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It’s for the fourth person who asks for either Beer Barrel or Chicken Dance.
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That blue Piatenesi looks like so much fun to play and be on the move with. And it's cute as heck, too.
Walker
🪗
Oh no... I can feel a just sayin' coming on...
Ok, so that's an interesting point Tom, though I would suggest that maybe its nice to just enjoy playing your music rather than worry about how long you can play for. Even if it's just an hour or so of really great music, what matters is that it's played from the heart. People appreciate a few tunes played with feeling and honesty, so who cares if you repeat them later on. Good repertoire should grow slowly, like the red spruce of the Val Di Fiemme, and you know what they get made into...
Regarding looks and tone... perhaps when specifically talking about the Castagnari, its wooden look and style is not what makes it special. I'd say there are many better looking accordions out there. I don't think "looks" matters here.
What is more important is the unusual tone. The Castagnari and Saltarelle seem to capture something of the old folk terroir; a tonal character that is usually reserved to quality melodeons, concertinas and ultimately the gold standard of the fiddle (imho). I think the Castagnari and Saltarelle are quite unusual in that they are of the same ilk.
To put it another way, I'd suggest the reason many people play cassotto accordions is because it vastly improve the sound of an average accordion. I'd probably go further still and say, without cassotto, some accordions can be quite rough sounding. Yet the likes of the Castagnari and Saltarelle, from the examples I have heard or played, simply don't need cassotto. They have a certain tone that makes you want to listen to them - they sing. I think that's quite rare.
So £6K or thereabouts for a non-cassotto accordion is not cheap. That's especially so because we tend to have the mindset that expensive accordions are "feature dense" with many voices, keys, buttons, cassotto, midi, internal mics etc. It's like having a car with extra spec. However, by contrast, a person can easily spend 6K on a high quality violin, and yet they are very simple. Maybe this is an accordion that bucks the usual spec-forward trend... "J.S."
Ok, so that's an interesting point Tom, though I would suggest that maybe its nice to just enjoy playing your music rather than worry about how long you can play for. Even if it's just an hour or so of really great music, what matters is that it's played from the heart. People appreciate a few tunes played with feeling and honesty, so who cares if you repeat them later on. Good repertoire should grow slowly, like the red spruce of the Val Di Fiemme, and you know what they get made into...
Regarding looks and tone... perhaps when specifically talking about the Castagnari, its wooden look and style is not what makes it special. I'd say there are many better looking accordions out there. I don't think "looks" matters here.
What is more important is the unusual tone. The Castagnari and Saltarelle seem to capture something of the old folk terroir; a tonal character that is usually reserved to quality melodeons, concertinas and ultimately the gold standard of the fiddle (imho). I think the Castagnari and Saltarelle are quite unusual in that they are of the same ilk.
To put it another way, I'd suggest the reason many people play cassotto accordions is because it vastly improve the sound of an average accordion. I'd probably go further still and say, without cassotto, some accordions can be quite rough sounding. Yet the likes of the Castagnari and Saltarelle, from the examples I have heard or played, simply don't need cassotto. They have a certain tone that makes you want to listen to them - they sing. I think that's quite rare.
So £6K or thereabouts for a non-cassotto accordion is not cheap. That's especially so because we tend to have the mindset that expensive accordions are "feature dense" with many voices, keys, buttons, cassotto, midi, internal mics etc. It's like having a car with extra spec. However, by contrast, a person can easily spend 6K on a high quality violin, and yet they are very simple. Maybe this is an accordion that bucks the usual spec-forward trend... "J.S."
Good points Walker and I agree with what you’re saying. Maybe it’s sour grapes because there’s no way I’m looking at a 6k accordion. I do agree that tone and sound are very important and one is well served to seek the best they can in their budget.Oh no... I can feel a just sayin' coming on...
Ok, so that's an interesting point Tom, though I would suggest that maybe its nice to just enjoy playing your music rather than worry about how long you can play for. Even if it's just an hour or so of really great music, what matters is that it's played from the heart. People appreciate a few tunes played with feeling and honesty, so who cares if you repeat them later on. Good repertoire should grow slowly, like the red spruce of the Val Di Fiemme, and you know what they get made into...
Regarding looks and tone... perhaps when specifically talking about the Castagnari, its wooden look and style is not what makes it special. I'd say there are many better looking accordions out there. I don't think "looks" matters here.
What is more important is the unusual tone. The Castagnari and Saltarelle seem to capture something of the old folk terroir; a tonal character that is usually reserved to quality melodeons, concertinas and ultimately the gold standard of the fiddle (imho). I think the Castagnari and Saltarelle are quite unusual in that they are of the same ilk.
To put it another way, I'd suggest the reason many people play cassotto accordions is because it vastly improve the sound of an average accordion. I'd probably go further still and say, without cassotto, some accordions can be quite rough sounding. Yet the likes of the Castagnari and Saltarelle, from the examples I have heard or played, simply don't need cassotto. They have a certain tone that makes you want to listen to them - they sing. I think that's quite rare.
So £6K or thereabouts for a non-cassotto accordion is not cheap. That's especially so because we tend to have the mindset that expensive accordions are "feature dense" with many voices, keys, buttons, cassotto, midi, internal mics etc. It's like having a car with extra spec. However, by contrast, a person can easily spend 6K on a high quality violin, and yet they are very simple. Maybe this is an accordion that bucks the usual spec-forward trend... "J.S."
As far as repertoire, I guess it’s just a personal goal to not repeat in a set, like maybe others have a personal goal to get an accordion with a certain sound. It may make no sense because no one notices except the guy playing (or the guy seeking the tone).
Ventura
Been here for ages!
well i see this as a basic tenet of professionalism
to have empathy for the listening group, the audience,
even at a Wine Festival where a huge crowd is in constant
wandering mode. To repeat songs risks boring or disappointing
someone, while a wide and well tailored variety, even as background,
will enhance the overall mood and flow and more fully contributes
to the overall success of the entire event
even for the least interested listener, suddenly something may
penetrate and give them a smile, but to disturb their mist with
repetition, the opposite..
as for those little special folksy boxes, i have noticed Kimric has
handled them and many similar in his shop for decades, so i know
there is something special to this "type" even though the itty bitty
accordions or the songs intended for their use are not really a
part of my world.. my first thought at the very idea of
"Flogging Molly" is to protect that poor girl from those drunken brutes !
to have empathy for the listening group, the audience,
even at a Wine Festival where a huge crowd is in constant
wandering mode. To repeat songs risks boring or disappointing
someone, while a wide and well tailored variety, even as background,
will enhance the overall mood and flow and more fully contributes
to the overall success of the entire event
even for the least interested listener, suddenly something may
penetrate and give them a smile, but to disturb their mist with
repetition, the opposite..
as for those little special folksy boxes, i have noticed Kimric has
handled them and many similar in his shop for decades, so i know
there is something special to this "type" even though the itty bitty
accordions or the songs intended for their use are not really a
part of my world.. my first thought at the very idea of
"Flogging Molly" is to protect that poor girl from those drunken brutes !
Then the next step, repetitions at multiple recurring events. Like this summer I volunteered for 10 farmers markets. Many of my friends play the same venue multiple times, like every Thursday at the local bar/restaurant. I try to introduce new songs each time (from sheet music now). There is always the next challenge which makes this whole music thing worth it. Everyone is at a point on the continuum whether they started at 5 or 55 years old, and the level of their talent. Recognizing aspects of your show that can be improved and applying yourself seems the way to combat mediocrity. In the meantime I smile a lot and listen raptly to “My father/cousin/grand uncle/ex girlfriend’s hairdresser played an accordion like that but with more sparkles.”
Walker
🪗
What you say Ventura makes sense if your view of the accordion is based on commerce and making money from gigging. Sure, in this setting one's presentation, stagecraft, carefully selected material etc. matters.
However, sadly too many accordionists seem to believe that the default setting is to be "out gigging" and making a buck - but it doesn't need to be like that. To me, music is much more than providing a service. Traditional and folk music, in particular, is about our connection to others, it has a cultural element and it is about sharing music with friends, family and our communities, often in informal or impromptu ways. This idea of "performance" really has permeated folk music, because we live in a society where making money and grasping opportunities matters more than just being together and using our gifts for the benefit of others; like making someone smile with a happy tune, or dance or bringing a tear to their eye with a song that reminds them of days gone by. Sometimes it seems we have lost the old ways.
So, if professional performance is your bag, yup, that's cool... you'd better polish your shoes and not repeat any tunes.
However, sadly too many accordionists seem to believe that the default setting is to be "out gigging" and making a buck - but it doesn't need to be like that. To me, music is much more than providing a service. Traditional and folk music, in particular, is about our connection to others, it has a cultural element and it is about sharing music with friends, family and our communities, often in informal or impromptu ways. This idea of "performance" really has permeated folk music, because we live in a society where making money and grasping opportunities matters more than just being together and using our gifts for the benefit of others; like making someone smile with a happy tune, or dance or bringing a tear to their eye with a song that reminds them of days gone by. Sometimes it seems we have lost the old ways.
So, if professional performance is your bag, yup, that's cool... you'd better polish your shoes and not repeat any tunes.
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Ventura
Been here for ages!
there is a lot of ground in the middle while still maintaining
some standards of craft
and "the default setting ... making a buck" galls me too, when it
shows a "get the money and run" attitude instead of giving
maximum value and support to the Gig itself and ones sponsor/contractor
part of being a Pro for me is to introduce people to ideas,
music, possibilities they would not normally be exposed to..
but in order to do that i first need to get them "on my side"
by doing the good job part of the equation
one long roam in Europe introduced me to the Piedmont
Madzurka and how the Italian influence reached up and over
the Alps and could be found in elements of the old music..
i recorded several on my boombox and brought them back
and learned them and exposed many people to them with
explanation of what to listen for and notice, even doing comparisons
with very Italian paesano songs from the south
sort of like how one can find the Sicilian musical influence
in some of the Irish sea chanties and traditional music,
and vice-versa.. brought about from the simple truth that
going to Sea was about the only work a second or third son
could find, and then interacting with other cultures under sail..
everyday sailors/smugglers just as poor and close to the elements as they were..
i enjoy bringing such, musically, to an audience who might find
it interesting, even enlightening to learn about
but this is all part of my personal journey.. colored by the me
i cannot escape from, and as mentioned, i need them to be
"on my side" first before i ask them to follow me somewhere
some standards of craft
and "the default setting ... making a buck" galls me too, when it
shows a "get the money and run" attitude instead of giving
maximum value and support to the Gig itself and ones sponsor/contractor
part of being a Pro for me is to introduce people to ideas,
music, possibilities they would not normally be exposed to..
but in order to do that i first need to get them "on my side"
by doing the good job part of the equation
one long roam in Europe introduced me to the Piedmont
Madzurka and how the Italian influence reached up and over
the Alps and could be found in elements of the old music..
i recorded several on my boombox and brought them back
and learned them and exposed many people to them with
explanation of what to listen for and notice, even doing comparisons
with very Italian paesano songs from the south
sort of like how one can find the Sicilian musical influence
in some of the Irish sea chanties and traditional music,
and vice-versa.. brought about from the simple truth that
going to Sea was about the only work a second or third son
could find, and then interacting with other cultures under sail..
everyday sailors/smugglers just as poor and close to the elements as they were..
i enjoy bringing such, musically, to an audience who might find
it interesting, even enlightening to learn about
but this is all part of my personal journey.. colored by the me
i cannot escape from, and as mentioned, i need them to be
"on my side" first before i ask them to follow me somewhere
Yup! By my calculations, only 150 more farmers markets and my Piatanesi will be paid off! I am retired (was never a dentist) and in no way concerned about making money performing with my accordion. In fact, if I consider my time worth even $10 per hour, I am losing money. I only do it to keep myself from going crazy. Plus I love all the stories!
In fact, speaking only of my area, and of all “creatives” (artists, musicians, actors, chefs, craftspeople) who live and perform here, we can identify several categories:
1. 50% Retired people who always wanted to be creatives but had to work elsewhere to make a living. Now they have the luxury to follow their heart. Also includes people who’s partner has a regular job.
2. 15% Successful creatives who are making a fine living at it. These hard working individuals have found the key and more power to them!
3. 15% Young people who are giving it a go. Sadly few of them will make it into the group above.
4. 20% People no longer young who have kept at it all this time, and are still going, but have to rely on other part time work, rental income, etc. to pay the mortgage.
How about your area?
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Walker
🪗
Hey Tom, from what I can gather the "creatives" you mention are all those people who either make, or attempt to make, money from their art, but at varying degrees of "success". Those in category 1, 3 and 4 requiring other means to make a living during their working lives. Category 2 being "successful creatives". As I stated earlier, I find it sad that so many accordionists seem to believe that the default setting is to be making money from music. Your categories do nothing to raise my spirit in this regard. Certainly, I do not measure "success" in music in such terms as making money. It doesn't make any sense. "Success" in music making is being able to make music, not in getting paid for it. If you get the chance have a listen to "The Lie of Success" by G.K. Chesterton on YouTube.
I would argue that the greatest fruits of our creativity do not lie in the fallacy of success, it lies in simply using your instrument to create music. It's when we give joy or move others, by our music, that's what's awesome. Hey, if you get a few pounds for doing it, that's fine, but it can equally be a charitable act. My favourite "ceilidhs" are those in the kitchen, where we just play tunes and talk and gather together for the sake of it. Nobody's counting any repeated tunes there.
I would argue that the greatest fruits of our creativity do not lie in the fallacy of success, it lies in simply using your instrument to create music. It's when we give joy or move others, by our music, that's what's awesome. Hey, if you get a few pounds for doing it, that's fine, but it can equally be a charitable act. My favourite "ceilidhs" are those in the kitchen, where we just play tunes and talk and gather together for the sake of it. Nobody's counting any repeated tunes there.
Yes, in this case I am talking about people who are performing (or selling their art). Although not all performers are getting paid (think nursing homes, playing at church, etc.). I am making no value judgement about playing for fun versus playing for a token (myself) or playing for real money.
In this case I meant “successful” as in success at wanting to make a living at one’s creativity. But by no means do I want to imply that “success” only comes from making money.
There are good and bad actors in all categories. It’s the intent and the spirit that count. We’ve all experienced the jerk who monopolizes the jam as well as the wonderful talented musician we don’t mind shelling out a few bucks for. So yeah, I have paid $200 for a Santana concert but wouldn’t got to a Taylor Swift concert if you paid me (unless she needed me for accordion backup
)!Walker
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The Castagnari/Saltarelle sound can be lovely. I've had both during a lengthy two-row Irish button accordion era before returning to to PA/CBA. Still have kept a couple of little 2-voice wood-chassis Castis. Probly 20 yearsish in age now.
But if we're talking folk/roots music I don't find their sound superior per se to standard Italian builds or the Hohner/Weltmeister sound. Not at all. It's all about personal taste. They are a polite sound. To me that's not the sound of dancing, laughing, eating and drinking that a poster on another thread has called the sound of "Grandpa's accordion." I love my Castis because they respond like butter---in a bisonoric this is a Godsend that can be make-or-break in your enjoyment of playing that system. But while their voice personality is charming I can't say I like it better than standard Italian or German/Czech----again, talking dance-based folk/roots genres.
I do think that consciously or unconsciously there is an insecurity and inferiority complex with accordion players in contemporary folk/roots. Fiddle is at the top of the status heap and accordion continues to be a target of derision. And I think some of the draw of the high-end fancy wood cabinets is a wish to be seen as a fine artiste with a wooden instrument.
But if we're talking folk/roots music I don't find their sound superior per se to standard Italian builds or the Hohner/Weltmeister sound. Not at all. It's all about personal taste. They are a polite sound. To me that's not the sound of dancing, laughing, eating and drinking that a poster on another thread has called the sound of "Grandpa's accordion." I love my Castis because they respond like butter---in a bisonoric this is a Godsend that can be make-or-break in your enjoyment of playing that system. But while their voice personality is charming I can't say I like it better than standard Italian or German/Czech----again, talking dance-based folk/roots genres.
I do think that consciously or unconsciously there is an insecurity and inferiority complex with accordion players in contemporary folk/roots. Fiddle is at the top of the status heap and accordion continues to be a target of derision. And I think some of the draw of the high-end fancy wood cabinets is a wish to be seen as a fine artiste with a wooden instrument.
One may well say that there is a fair sense of snobbery, but speaking for me personally I don't classify or care what others think about one model or another, but it can get under my skin at times, though I really should not let it (let's say its something for me to work on).
I own and play models from the bottom of the barrel and at the top of the heap, they all have their charm and I enjoy each one for what they do for me, less so than what they look like or are even made of.
And here likes the magic rub or capitalist lie....
I can remember being told your not a musician until you're getting paid from it...till then it's a hobby at best....which seems to come from learned snobs
Then there's the you're not a true musician you've "sold out"...which tends to come from "the can't hardly playboys"who aren't getting any gigs anyways
I don't really worry about cash .. I've a real job that finances my passions.....if I like what someone's trying to do I'll play for free or a few drinks ....if I think they're making more wedge by me playing in there establishment then I expect a slice of the pie, if a group of good players have hired a venue to run a jam then I'll happily pay my share of costs just to sit in and play, sometimes I'll quote a price for a gig and then just take half or even none on the day..(but charging a price initially stops you getting crap gigs where you're treated like the freebie you presented yourself as ..)
Be kind, play from the heart....the passion will take care of everything....
But if you're real lucky and real talented charge shed loads and spend the cash on a Magica...
hais1273
Well-known member
DBA's are just the job for some sorts of music, the size and lack of weight are part of the appeal I guess, My wife sold her Castagnari 4 or 5 years ago she prefered her Hohner Merlins, lighter, certainly as loud, they have the same range and the Hohner's and in her opinion have a more user friendly air button. These days I usually play a 26/72 3 voice Guistozzi for Bal Folk, assertive enough to keep up with a Hohner Pokerwerk, 98% of the dancers don't give a hoot what the tunes are played on, I like the lack of weight, compact size and weirdly the restricted range. Oh yes , the Magica looks the part but is a bit dry for my taste. Would I buy one? No.
Great sentiments Terry!!!! I was playing yesterday for a friend’s art show (He did make me a killer old fashionedAnd here likes the magic rub or capitalist lie....
I can remember being told your not a musician until you're getting paid from it...till then it's a hobby at best....which seems to come from learned snobs
Then there's the you're not a true musician you've "sold out"...which tends to come from "the can't hardly playboys"who aren't getting any gigs anyways
I don't really worry about cash .. I've a real job that finances my passions.....if I like what someone's trying to do I'll play for free or a few drinks ....if I think they're making more wedge by me playing in there establishment then I expect a slice of the pie, if a group of good players have hired a venue to run a jam then I'll happily pay my share of costs just to sit in and play, sometimes I'll quote a price for a gig and then just take half or even none on the day..(but charging a price initially stops you getting crap gigs where you're treated like the freebie you presented yourself as ..)
Be kind, play from the heart....the passion will take care of everything....
But if you're real lucky and real talented charge shed loads and spend the cash on a Magica...
). A guy started talking about his book launch today. Says he, “What I really need is an accordionist.” Says I, “Ok, I’ll do it for a book!” Capitalism at its finest? It’s a beautiful book, coffee table photos of the area, giant ships (300 meters +) in the ice.Walker
🪗
Reciprocity, mutual respect and making community connections with like-minded people. What's not to like! Who knows where it might lead...Great sentiments Terry!!!! I was playing yesterday for a friend’s art show (He did make me a killer old fashioned
ColoRodney
Member
I’ve got several “folk” accordions, and find them lovely and easy to play. Besides Saltarelle and Castsgnari, there are some nice wooden 30 to 34-key boxes made by Beltuna, Brandoni, and Serenellini. My main squeeze is the mahogany 37/96 LMM Petosa Antico in my pic, but I also have a 30/78 Serenellini Jet and a 30/48 Tyrolean III (with faux-wood grain) that I’m told was made by Beltuna. Their sound and appearance is excellent for trad folk and jazz gigs and jams, and the weight is welcome compared to my full 120 triple musette, which I rarely get out.
