Changing Horses in Mid Stream

[Mr Mark]

I can't think of reasons why to jump horse mid stream; but can relate from experience the fact that an old and rather serious thumb injury makes it harder to 'feel' where I am on the buttons vs keys...I find the keys more forgiving being they are larger. I still have this idea that I would like to switch over now that I have been messing around on a small CBA for a couple of weeks but the thumb issue is actually quite a big deal. That and CBA's are almost non existent around here.

 

[Longshore]

I can't think of reasons why to jump horse mid stream; but can relate from experience the fact that an old and rather serious thumb injury makes it harder to 'feel' where I am on the buttons vs keys...I find the keys more forgiving being they are larger.

That is a factor to take into account. Mr Mark.
I have arthritis in my right hand finger joints which is another factor when playing the treble. Whether switching 'horses' would help is something I wouldn't know without trying.

 

[Siegmund]

either we're on to something here the world hasn't discovered yet, or we're exaggerating the virtues of a system that has been around for generations and is still mostly just a traditional choice.

IMO part of the problem is the (early part of) the 'Midi Age', where a generation of musicians grew up with the idea that a piano keyboard is the universal instrument that can make any sound in the world. It is possible to have MIDI CBAs, or turn a regular typewriter keyboard or any other array of sensors into a MIDI input device, but few of them are on the market. Right now the only crowd that likes to experiment with different devices are the microtonal folks -- and they have some beautiful button layouts that are somewhat CBA-like in that you transpose by moving your hand sideways and maintaining the same finger pattern for the same chord. (The hot new commercial product right now is the "lumatone isomorphic keyboard" - google if curious. Here is a demo of lumatone by a microtonal composer acquaintance of mine)

There is an interesting similarity in that relatively few people leave traditional piano keyboards for isomorphic keyboards, but those who do often don't want to go back.

Part of the problem is older than that, of course - where all musicians were expected to learn piano in addition to whatever other instrument they specialized in - and the piano keyboard layout had a couple hundred years head start on accordions of any design.

 

[John M]

. . . part of the problem is older than that, of course - where all musicians were expected to learn piano in addition to whatever other instrument they specialized in - and the piano keyboard layout had a couple hundred years head start on accordions of any design.

I totally agree. I don't know how good this approach was. I remember back when (late '50's->'60's), where, if you wanted to learn to play an organ (say Hammond) in no way would a teacher take you as a student unless you had "X" amount of piano lessons. I never understood that. To me, an accordion background would be better than piano if you wanted to start playing the organ. Look at the similarities--sustain tone (as long as you hold the note), no difference in tone no matter how hard you hit the keys. Some folks, I know, that play the piano and switch to organ seem ridiculous to me when they hit the keys with a very strong "attack". I don't think they can get used to a keyboard that doesn't respond to the "touch".

John M.

 

[cat]

Not particularly apropo, but... I think that, as someone upstream mentioned, CBA is perhaps the most elegant system in free reeds. But I play PA ... couple of reasons:

In North America, where I am, there are thousands of PAs laying about. In fact, their ubiquitous dormant state is how I came to play, stumbling upon one and, well, why not..?

Other reason is I play a lot of Latin/American music - blues, boogie-woogie, cajun, forro, cumbia...just tradition I guess. The instrument (PA) works very well in these idioms.


I always wanted to play CBA (I love buttons / play DBA, woodwinds...). I came oh so close to scoring a beautiful Guerrini a few years ago...

 

[Longshore]

In North America, where I am, there are thousands of PAs laying about. In fact, their ubiquitous dormant state is how I came to play, stumbling upon one and, well, why not..?

Other reason is I play a lot of Latin/American music - blues, boogie-woogie, cajun, forro, cumbia...just tradition I guess. The instrument (PA) works very well in these idioms.

I suppose access to the instrument is a factor Cat, although PA is the overwhelming instrument (compared to CBA) here in the UK too (especially on the secondhand market) so a switch to a small PA would be relatively straight forward for me.

I suppose musical genre can be a deciding factor but for the music I play I think it would be achievable with both PA and CBA.

But coming back to the original question: is there anybody on the forum who has switched from CBA to PA (not returned to PA as Paul mentioned) and if so, why?

 

[tcabot]

If you're looking for a change & a challenge, how about switching from C system to B system?

...You know that "B" stands for "Better", right?

 

[Longshore]

If you're looking for a change & a challenge, how about switching from C system to B system?

...You know that "B" stands for "Better", right?

I can already play B system CBA. It's just a reverse of C system (on a three row) from what I remember.

But I can't play PA treble side.

I may try and borrow a small (old German made) Hohner student as it's the PA version of my (admittedly hightly modified) Hohner Amati.

Just for a bit of fun, if nothing else.

 

[Longshore]

I always wanted to play CBA (I love buttons / play DBA, woodwinds...). I came oh so close to scoring a beautiful Guerrini a few years ago...

Rereading this thread Cat.

I see you play 'buttons', did the buttons come first or did the PA?

And how do you find the crossover when you switch between the two types?

 

[cat]

Can't account for my preference for buttons - unless it's a predilection derived from my first childhood instrument (sax) having pearly buttons...

Even though there was always a piano in the house growing up, and playing a little piano and keys all my life, I never felt like it was my thing.., I never felt natural on piano keys - strings, woodwinds, anything, but piano keys always felt cumbersome or something.

That is, until I started playing accordion/PA. Still, buttons seem natural - even though I hadn't taken up DBAs until sometime after PA.

DBA and PA being so different, I have no problem alternating. However I feel this could be somewhat the case between CBA and PA, I don't know..

 

[Longshore]

Can't account for my preference for buttons - unless it's a predilection derived from my first childhood instrument (sax) having pearly buttons...

Even though there was always a piano in the house growing up, and playing a little piano and keys all my life, I never felt like it was my thing.., I never felt natural on piano keys - strings, woodwinds, anything, but piano keys always felt cumbersome or something.

That is, until I started playing accordion/PA. Still, buttons seem natural - even though I hadn't taken up DBAs until sometime after PA.

DBA and PA being so different, I have no problem alternating. However I feel this could be somewhat the case between CBA and PA, I don't know..

Thanks Cat.

Interesting how you gravitated around buttons even though early influences were key based. Also interesting that you swap between PA and DBA but are not sure if this would happen with CBA.

My journey to CBA came via DBA's and barely any contact with PA or piano and I can't in all honesty see me making meaningful progress with PA - but the urge is still there...

 

[Waldo]

I have a DBA on the way (covid willing), due in march. I too, am wondering about the CBA to DBA morph. Not quitting the CBA, just (hopefully) adding the DBA for TexMex border music, which is what brought me to accordions in the first place. Anybody out there gone CBA to DBA? Or, most likely, added the DBA, after all, who could quit CBA (unless you're dead)?

Press on,
Waldo

PS; "Killer Accordion" coming soon. I need to figure out how to reduce pixels for posting.

 

[Longshore]

I too, am wondering about the CBA to DBA morph.

An inevitable bit of thread drift happening.

Getting back to the original question - has anybody on here successfully moved from CBA to PA and if so why?

 

[Tom]

I have a DBA on the way (covid willing), due in march. I too, am wondering about the CBA to DBA morph. Not quitting the CBA, just (hopefully) adding the DBA for TexMex border music, which is what brought me to accordions in the first place. Anybody out there gone CBA to DBA? Or, most likely, added the DBA, after all, who could quit CBA (unless you're dead)?

Press on,
Waldo

PS; "Killer Accordion" coming soon. I need to figure out how to reduce pixels for posting.

Good luck Waldo! On my phone I use the free app "Photo Compress."

 

[NickC]

I played PA for a year or two before switching to CBA. I still have a smaller PA and enjoy playing it. I had thoughts about switching back, but I feel much more comfortable playing the CBA. The one thing that I find easier on the piano is playing chords, but I think that has more to do with 1. I had a few years of piano lessons in the past and 2. I don't do a lot of chording in the genre that I currently play, so I probably just need more practice.

 

[Longshore]

I played PA for a year or two before switching to CBA. I still have a smaller PA and enjoy playing it. I had thoughts about switching back, but I feel much more comfortable playing the CBA. The one thing that I find easier on the piano is playing chords, but I think that has more to do with 1. I had a few years of piano lessons in the past and 2. I don't do a lot of chording in the genre that I currently play, so I probably just need more practice.

Interesting that you mentioned chords as that was one of my considerations although, like you, I don't really play many chords on the treble side ( a three row CBA).

 

[NickC]

One day, I'll sit down and start to work on accompaniment and chord shapes. I'm sure that, given enough time, I will be able to play chords equally as well on the CBA. There is just a lot for me to work on at the moment.

 

[Longshore]

One day, I'll sit down and start to work on accompaniment and chord shapes. I'm sure that, given enough time, I will be able to play chords equally as well on the CBA. There is just a lot for me to work on at the moment.

I fully understand your dilemma. For me it's one step forward, two steps back - but I'm the best CBA player I know - (actually I'm the only CBA player I know!).

 

[JerryPH]

An inevitable bit of thread drift happening.

Getting back to the original question - has anybody on here successfully moved from CBA to PA and if so why?

I'd think that the switch from button to keyboard is easier than from PA to CBA. Is there a reason to do this? Of course, there is always a reason for anything, and nothing is sacrosanct or forbidden, however that is a question that each person needs to answer for themselves.

The advantages of moving to a CBA are offset by the approximate 10 year transitional process for anyone past the beginner stage. If you are intermediate or above, its not unreasonable to spend a decade working to get back to where you were, so this is not something that I would suggest for anyone over 50 years of age... imagine the struggle of working (wasting?) 10 years to reach where you are today only to find that you are now in the part of the process where you are sliding back down instead of upwards?

As far as the other way around, short of personal preference, a physical issue (missing a thumb, its a LOT easier to get on with a CBA than PA) or perhaps availability, I'd probably say that it takes maybe 50-75% of the time to migrate over to PA from a CBA, There are a LOT more CBA players that can play on a PA than there are PA players that can play on a CBA, at least within my own experiences, though none ever considered moving over to PA.

This is one of those questions that has only one perfect answer... "IT DEPENDS...".

 

[Longshore]

I'd think that the switch from button to keyboard is easier than from PA to CBA. Is there a reason to do this? Of course, there is always a reason for anything, and nothing is sacrosanct or forbidden, however that is a question that each person needs to answer for themselves.

The advantages of moving to a CBA are offset by the approximate 10 year transitional process for anyone past the beginner stage. If you are intermediate or above, its not unreasonable to spend a decade working to get back to where you were, so this is not something that I would suggest for anyone over 50 years of age... imagine the struggle of working (wasting?) 10 years to reach where you are today only to find that you are now in the part of the process where you are sliding back down instead of upwards?

As far as the other way around, short of personal preference, a physical issue (missing a thumb, its a LOT easier to get on with a CBA than PA) or perhaps availability, I'd probably say that it takes maybe 50-75% of the time to migrate over to PA from a CBA, There are a LOT more CBA players that can play on a PA than there are PA players that can play on a CBA, at least within my own experiences, though none ever considered moving over to PA.

This is one of those questions that has only one perfect answer... "IT DEPENDS...".

Interesting take on the question Jerry. At my age it probably doesn't make much sense to switch horses - neither from a physical nor financial point of view.
Mentally though, that a different matter. I'll need to tread carefully as I have always had a tenancy to 'charge in' regardless.
Hopefully though, I'll manage to borrow a small PA to exorcise this particular demon.