Choosing a piano accordion

[Donpablo34]

Hello dear members of this beautiful forum! Could you please help me with advice on choosing a full piano accordion? At this moment there are 3 options for purchase:
1. Titano Virtuoso with Palmer Converter (LMMH 11/5 registers);
2. International Centro Matic Super (LMMH 11/5 registers). I think it's a copy of Lira Centro Matic Super 50;
3. Pancordion Panjet 45 (LMMM 8/5 registers).
If you imagine that they are all in excellent condition, which one would you choose? I listened to how they all sound on YouTube, and I like them all. My last accordion was Weltmeister Caprice (Full), since then I have not played for 8-10 years. Now I decided to return and want to buy myself a good instrument.

 

[Dingo40]

Hello dear members of this beautiful forum!

Hi, Donpablo 34, and welcome!

 

[debra]

Welcome Donpablo34,

The three choices are quite different.
If you want a convertor (melody bass) then option 1 is the only one I believe.
If you want LMMM then option 3 is the only one.
I don't know the second accordion, so I cannot say whether it may be a better choice than option 1 when you don't care about the convertor...

 

[Donpablo34]

I don't care about converter. I have never played on LMMM accordion, only listened it on YouTube (and I like the sound). The prices for them are +/- the same and they are all made in Italy. I'm interested in quality of instrument...

 

[John Doe]

If you're not going to use the convertor then I'd pass on that particular Titano; the staggering of the bass reeds is such that the convertors have a more noticeable break in the pitch in the bass. Normally they are staggered so the break is disguised. This is, of course, not an issue at all when using the convertor. If you wanted the quint convertor then it works just fine; it is only a -small- issue when playing in normal mode.

I personally am a big fan of the Lira International instruments. Nice all around LMMH performers and the 50 is very flexible- but the MM is pretty dry on them. Good for many purposes but if you're looking for in your face musette probably not your best bet.

The Panjet 45 really is a fabulous choice if you seek musette. M, MM, M with the quite detuned reed, MMM, basoon, B M, B M detuned, BMMM. No cassotto (nor do either of the other two) but the Pan grille has a pretty decent removal of harshness without dulling things overly.

I'd hear (and see) them if at all possible- at least on You-tube videos if nothing else. Unseen internet accordions can be a risky bet unless you have a known name dealer selling them.

I personally own and regularly use the Lira 50, and a Panjet 45- and hack away in the quint convertor mode- not exactly fluid...- on a Pancordion 4/5 convertor- very similar to the Titano. All three were quality builds when made.

Henry

 

[Donpablo34]

Thank you very much for your advice!

 

[debra]

...

I personally own and regularly use the Lira 50, and a Panjet 45- and hack away in the quint convertor mode- not exactly fluid...- on a Pancordion 4/5 convertor- very similar to the Titano. All three were quality builds when made.

Henry

That advice is right on the money I believe.
Don't get the convertor when you don't want to use it.
I would get the LMMH over the LMMM when quality is similar. Stronger tremolo (on the Panjet) was a thing 50 years ago but has mostly gone out of favor now.

 

[Donpablo34]

I think (by photos), that on International Centro Matic Super accordion on bass side the E and Ab buttons are not marked, only C. Is it possible to mark them at home correctly (without using a knife or something)? I'm going to see this accordion this weekend but I want to be prepared for this in advance..

 

[oldbayan]

I think (by photos), that on International Centro Matic Super accordion on bass side the E and Am buttons are not marked, only C. Is it possible to mark them at home correctly (without using a knife or something)? I'm going to see this accordion this weekend but I want to be prepared for this in advance..

Suggestion here:


Note that this is just a suggestion! Be gentle on the squeeze of the vise grip.

You can also just drill a little hollow, without putting the stone, or use a fine triangular file to make hatched grooves the shape of a # like we find on many instruments.

 

[Tom]

Welcome Don Pablo!

I like the Centro Magic, like playing a big ol’ chrome Buick from the 50s. Another thing you can do is mark the bass notes with a drop of nail polish for a removable fix. Silver sparkly would go well. I haven’t tried the other two. I hope you are able to “try before you buy” as it could be difficult getting anything fixed/tuned unless you are good at DIY.

Good luck!

 

[Donpablo34]

Thank you guys for answers. I bought it

 

[Donpablo34]

Sounds great, bur there is no marks on E and Ab as I expected, so I have to mark them.

 

[John Doe]

While small faux jewels are popular for marking bass buttons they need to be properly inset and have a suitable top- otherwise you (at least I) really feel them while playing to an annoying extent. Dimples can be felt, but in no way interfere with playing technique.

If you have a dremel tool you can use a spherical bit as below (first pic). (As an example 14 bucks on Amazon gets you a set; Diamond Grinding Burr Drill Bit Set for Dremel Rotary Tool 20Pcs Diamond Burr Bits with 1/8 Inch Shank.)

Carefully hold the bass button to be marked with the left hand so it down't wiggle around on you- I press it to the side with the tip of a 1.5 MM screwdriver (tiny). Holding the Dremel with your right hand touch the spinning sphere to the center of the bass button to form a dimple. Check your work after the first touch to ensure you're centered before finishing it up. If you're off you can correct as long as you just started- once you've made a deep impression you are stuck with an off center dimple- hardly world shattering but pretty aggravating. You can easily ruin your bass button with over-enthusiasm. You really only need a very shallow dimple for you finger tip to find it- and you can always grind it deeper. It is a bit more challenging to grind it shallower...

Second pic is the "E" from my own Model 50 with the dimple I added on. I would up doing all four (Fb,Ab,E,G# in addition to the "C". I actually use the dimples at the estremes far more than the center three- once started my fingers know the way without my thinking about it.

This is a dimple you're making, not a pit mine. Go slow and if at all possible try it out on something else before trying it on the new to you accordion. That said, it really is pretty darned easy- especially if you take it in multiple small passes.

PS Dremels are wonderful tools- but around delicate mechanisms you can quickly and permanently ruin things. Reeds probably are the number one victim of enthusiastic grinders seeking to use their power tool where it doesn't belong but there are a lot of other small metal and wood bits begging to be mutilated beyond repair in any given accordion.

 

[John Doe]

I like the Centro Magic, like playing a big ol’ chrome Buick from the 50s.

You nailed it- I've always like the "CentroMatic" and asserted that ir was really well suited for quick accurate shifts (lacking chin switches), but at the end of the day any shift set up is OK once you've played the instrument for a while.

When you come right down to it it was that 50's Roadmaster vibe that appealed to me.

 

[Dingo40]

You can also just drill a little hollow, without putting the stone,

Agree: the dimple by itself is best, easiest and most effective!

 

[Dingo40]

so I have to mark them.

Take it slowly.
I always mark the centre first by rotating a small, sharp, pointy knife to prevent the drill bit from wandering. Use a sharp new drill- bit .
I used a fairly big bit (3/8"/9mm) and sank enough of the conical tip of the bit into the bass button so there would be a neat little rim of the original surface remaining around the edge of tip of the button.
I usually had my wife hold the button steady with a pair of small pliers (5") with taped jaws (so wouldn't damage the button) while I drilled the hole using the bit and a hand operated drill.
Don't rush!
Double check you're drilling the correct buttons!!!