Do new accordions improve with playing?

[James]

Very interesting discussions! And very informative. The posts mostly discuss how the accordion would or would not improve with playing--in terms the quality of the "sound". How about sensitivity, responsiveness, may I ask? Do accordions respond better, or are more sensitive, easier to control in their volumes, etc., with playing?

With a lot of playing, valves may become less stiff, or become slumpy, which may contribute to the accordion being more, or less, responsive. Is this true?

How about reeds, then? Will they change somewhat in their behaviour, that will cause some changes in the responsiveness of the accordion?

 

[jozz]

Difficult to answer, there are so many variables here and nobody actually will A and B two new instruments over a long period. Some people will tell you this others tell you that..

A guy I know with a 35+ years career as a pro and countless play testing hours on different accordions tells me, yes you do have a settling in time. The problem is I guess I wasn't at that level that I could notice myself.

If you take a brand new instrument common sense tells me one has to "loosen up" the instrument to get full control over it, bellows and such and maybe the odd reed or valve that are part of it childs diseases. Of course if you play it long and hard you will need to service the parts you mentioned.

 

[James]

Yes, jazz. It does make sense. Thank you!

 

[debra]

....
If you take a brand new instrument common sense tells me one has to loosen up the instrument to get full control over it, bellows and such and maybe the odd reed or valve that are part of it childs diseases. Of course if you play it long and hard you will need to service the parts you mentioned.

There may indeed be a bit of loosening up, especially to the bellows, in the first months of playing.
But what happens most by playing a new instrument for a while is... that it goes out of tune (not due to a defect, but it is the nature of the beast: all accordions require regular tuning).

 

[OuijaBoard]

I recently tried a used excellent-condition Scandalli Air Junior 34/72 four-voice LMMM that was probably in the 2-4-year-old range. I'm pretty sure it had super-durall Italian reeds, and was wonderfully responsive and easy to play. And when I commented accordingly, my local accordion wizard tech/dealer said, "You wouldn't have thought it was very good if you played it brand-new. New reeds come to respond better over two or so years of play."

 

[Hugh]

I picked up a new accordion yesterday and asked Mr Allodi about this.

He was for the idea that new accordions do improve. He mentioned a French make who write on the inside of every box, this accordion will not reach its peak until approximately 2 years of playing. He did admit that there was some romanticism and salesmanship in this but still thought it was true.

The main scientific reason he gave was that the valves start out very tight and loosen over time.

 

[Eddy Yates]

“There are other reasons to re-wax. The quality of the sound your accordion produces is partially dependent on the condition of the wax. This is because the reed itself produces only a feeble sound until it is anchored to a reed plate and until that reed plate is anchored into a reed block, which in turn is mounted to an accordion. The vibrations of the reed tongue are transmitted through the rivet to the reed plate, then through the wax to the reed block, then through the wooden reed block and on into the accordion cabinet. That's why you can feel the accordion vibrating against your chest as you play it. The accordion cabinet is a bit like the sound board in a piano, or the body of an acoustic guitar. The quality of the sound we hear depends on the efficiency with which those vibrations are transmitted through the various materials, including the wax, as well as on the quality and construction of the reeds and cabinet. Old brittle wax transmits sound differently. Fresh wax could make your accordion sound more like it did when it was new.”
-George Bachich (Accordion Revival)
Dr. David G. Hunt of the School of Engineering Systems and Design at South Bank University in London says his studies with pieces of spruce show that continuous forced vibrations similar to those experienced with regular use of a musical instrument changes the nature of the wood.
In a letter published in the current issue of the journal Nature, Dr. Hunt and a graduate student, Emmanuel Balsan, said that wood vibrated in conditions of high humidity increased in stiffness and saw a decrease in dampening coefficient, a measure of cycles of vibrations emanating from the material. Both factors are known to help provide more pleasant tones in spruce, mature pine and other woods used in instrument sounding boards, experts say.

It has been stated in this thread that reeds don’t need to be attached to a resonating body to sound loud, and that wood doesn’t change with playing. My own experience in teaching the physics of sound says otherwise.

 

[donn]

A piano string cant produce much sound at all, on its own. If you took one of those strings and stretched it out to the appropriate tension between a couple of spikes in the sidewalk, you could hammer on it however you want and no one could hear it 4 feet away. The same string stretched out on the soundboard can fill a concert hall. => The soundboard is an integral part of tone generation, just like in a guitar or a violin.

An accordion reed can however produce the normal accordion tone, all by itself, as long as you can deliver the activating force in the form of an air stream through it. Theres no compelling reason to suppose that the material the reed is mounted on plays any acoustic role at all.

This is because the reed itself produces only a feeble sound until it is anchored to a reed plate and until that reed plate is anchored into a reed block, which in turn is mounted to an accordion. The vibrations of the reed tongue are transmitted through the rivet to the reed plate, then through the wax to the reed block, then through the wooden reed block and on into the accordion cabinet.

Well, there you have it - point and counterpoint. It seems like it might be easy for anyone who possesses an accordion reed plate to empirically test this. Tape it up so it can be played like a harmonica; sound much different, than the same reed mounted normally in an accordion?

 

[Morne]

Regarding the soundboard or cabinet, there was a book published in Russia about accordions (garmon and bayan) in 1937, Technology of production of harmonics by A.A. Novoselsky.

Here is a quote from it regarding the (lack of) influence from the soundboard: (mostly pasted from Google Translate):

Wooden plates are called decks in harmonics, to which the input chambers (resonators) are attached. In the deck there are a number of holes for the passage of air. From the outside, these holes are covered with leather padded valves.

In stringed instruments, as you know, decks take part in oscillatory movements and serve as resonators for them. In order to determine whether soundboards in harmonics are resonators, the Institute of the Music Industry has performed a series of experiments with sand figures. The oscillation of decks in stringed instruments is easily determined from these figures. When the string oscillates, sand poured over the surface of the deck is displaced and assembled into certain shapes. On the decks of the harmonics, no displacement of the sands of oscillations of the tongues was detected. Thus, the decks of these instruments do not participate in the oscillatory process and are not “resonators” for them.

In this regard, the type of wood for acoustic harmonics decks does not have the same meaning as in stringed instruments.

Only requirements of a purely mechanical order are imposed on the wood for harmonic decks. The deck surface should be flat and smooth so that the entrance chambers fit closer to it. The deck should not warp under the influence of atmospheric influences and not bend when inserting the input chambers, i.e. it must be of sufficient thickness.

The sound of the instrument is also greatly influenced by the method of fastening harmonic details. Any random openings resulting from a loose connection of parts cause an increased air leakage, which is reflected in the strength of the instrument’s sound.

The source, in Russian, is here: https://poigarmonika.ru/garmon-tehn...anie-materiala-deki-na-zvuchanie-garmoni.html

 

[Tor]

There is definitely something to what the reed is coupled to. A plucked reed held in the hand doesn't produce much sound at all. The same reed held against a table produces much more sound. I had this demonstrated to me when I was shopping for my current accordion.

Also, my old accordion had some wax cracking. It seemed the sound output of those reeds dropped substantially (when they would even play).

 

[Dingo40]

“... My own experience in teaching the physics of sound says otherwise.

Eddy, I would be interested, from the viewpoint of the physics of gases under applied pressure ( considering the accordion’s bellows as a piston), given two accordions - one with a larger bellows cross sectional area than the other- would the variation in cross sectional area affect the pressure (push) required in order to produce the same volume of sound for a given reed, or wouldn’t a difference in cross sectional area matter?

 

[Eddy Yates]

Dingo,
I was reading ad copy for a new high end Accordion and it spoke of the depth and number of the bellows folds, as if the average high end Accordion buyer would know what they were referencing and why! That would also seem to have something to do with what you wrote. The more I learn about these beasts the more amazed I am at the mechanics and subtlety and that they even work at all.

 

[Dingo40]

Eddy,
Thanks<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f44d">?</EMOJI>!

 

[SteveH]

Fascinating post. I just purchased a new Scandalli & will be interested in seeing if there is any change as I "work it in." One thing I have noticed is that the bellows were just a bit stiff the first day or so, but after a couple of weeks of playing, that seems to have disappeared.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Please let us know, SteveH. Thanks.

 

[StargazerTony]

HI Steve, Yes, that would be interesting to know and follow. Which model of Scandalli do you get?

 

[SteveH]

I acquired a new Scandalli this month, and the only thing I noticed regarding a "break-in" period is that the bellows were a little stiff for the first hour or two of play, but after that they seemed normal. The reeds all sound good.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Considering that all parts of an accordion work together to produce music, it would probably be tough to isolate the reasons for improvement.
And ever mindful of the instruction to avoid politics on this forum, I want to wish all the members a very Happy New Year! (We can work together and do better.)