FR-4X and Orla XM800

[gc1000fix]

Hi,

I have these two items. I tried using the FR4 with the Orla Arranger. Any chord button will start the arranger. The arranger should then follow the chord. However, it does not. I've taken a midi acoustic accordion and tested it. It works fine. The FR4 changes on Cmaj but not Gmaj.

Is there a FR4 setting to fix this? Any ideas.

Regards

 

[dak]

Roland has chosen to send bass/chord on different MIDI channels than everybody else. The channels can be assigned in the "Real Time Rx-Tx" menu of the FR-4x (check page 83 in the reference manual). The Orla Arranger will likely expect the chords to arrive on channel 2, and possibly the basses on channel 3.

 

[JerryPH]

Is there a FR4 setting to fix this? Any ideas.

I’d recommend you download the free PDF manual for the 4X. Both have the Orla and 4x have the ability to change MIDI channels, I’d recommend changing channels on the Orla instead of the 4x.

You do have the PDF manual for your Orla, don’t you?

 

[gc1000fix]

I’d recommend you download the free PDF manual for the 4X. Both have the Orla and 4x have the ability to change MIDI channels, I’d recommend changing channels on the Orla instead of the 4x.

You do have the PDF manual for your Orla, don’t you?

Yes, I have both manuals. I have corrected the midi channels. I do get functionality. However, the Orla does not always follow the chord. I've taken a midi acoustic accordion and tested the Orla to see that it follows the chord. It works fine. The FR4 does not. The FR4 changes on Cmaj but not Gmaj. When Gmaj is struck, it stays on the previous chord. This happens cyclicly through out the bass.

 

[dak]

Yes, I have both manuals. I have corrected the midi channels. I do get functionality. However, the Orla does not always follow the chord. I've taken a midi acoustic accordion and tested the Orla to see that it follows the chord. It works fine. The FR4 does not. The FR4 changes on Cmaj but not Gmaj. When Gmaj is struck, it stays on the previous chord. This happens cyclicly through out the bass.

How do you "strike" Gmaj? Do you include the bass note?

The FR-4x also has an option to play "complete" chords for the sake of arrangers et al, but to me that sounds like something that would likely concern seventh and diminished chords rather than plain major and minor.

 

[JerryPH]

Certainly nothing major needs to be done.
1 - Learn what channels the FR-4X uses for the chords (walk in the partk, its channel 3... reference page 11 and 12). Chord changes happen when you hit the CHORDS, not the bass notes. If it changes when you hit the bass or counter-bass, you are using the wrong channel.

2 - Set the arranger to listen to channel 3 for the chord changes and follow you.
I don't own the Orla, but if you have the unit and the manual, it should be fairly easy to do the above.

 

[gc1000fix]

I'm sorry, I don't think I made the situation clear. The midi channels have always been correct on both ends. This is a very fine detail: The Orla does follow the chord button FOR THE MOST PART. There are certain chords where it does NOT change. The one I remember off hand is Gmaj. But it also applies to Gmin, G7 and Gdim. Sequentially: If I press Cmaj it changes. If I press Dmaj it changes. If I press Gmaj it does not. If I press Cmaj it changes. It is almost like the Orla missing a bit or the Roland doing something odd.

 

[JerryPH]

Well... potentially the 4X is not sending the commands for a few chords. I think it is reaching that the 4X is not doing good, though it MAY be. Same could be said of the Orla.

You are now at the point where internet diagnostics is not going to help you, but someone with probes, MIDI capture apps and a strong understanding of both these instruments is required.

 

[Ventura]

ok, i will take a shot at this

1: GC said the ORLA works fine triggered from a simple MIDI accordion

2: only certain chords fail to be read FR4 > ORLA

i am gonna guess there is an OCTAVE LIMIT in the ORLA that only reads
input between a certain limited note range low to high, and whatever that is
is exceeded by the FR4 for those problem chords

if you have a simple MIDI PC with Band in a Box, there is a screen that
will actually show you the chord recognition in real time... an inexpensive way
to screen MIDI chord output from the FR4 and verify for certain that the
FR4 is working correctly

you could also temporarily set your fr4 treble side to transmit on channel 2
and test the range of the orla with right hand chord changes in different
inversions and octaves to define it's limits

to match the octave range for chord recognition, you will need to
delve in deeply and research those parameters for both units..
if the devices cannot be set to comply within the restriction, then you
could use an event processor in between them to compensate

 

[gc1000fix]

JerryPH, thanks for the reply.

Ventura, That's pretty detailed. I will try this. Unfortunately, going away so reply of results will be delayed. Thanks for your ideas.

 

[gc1000fix]

Ventura, you were right. The FR-4X works fine on other midi modules. The ORLA is the problem. I did use a midi debug tool to capture midi messages. I filtered out the CC messages and looked at the bass and chord commands. The notes are too low.

Thanks
GC

 

[Ventura]

glad you were able to get it figured out.. now to
come up with some kind of work-around that is
not too expensive or awkward

Orla was a cool company.. i do not know if any
of their intellectual property or programming survived..
someone would have to dig around CastleFi to find a clue.