• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks (Click the "X" to the top right of this message to disable it)

Hohner Morino Skinny

Status
Not open for further replies.

Waldo

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2016
Messages
557
Reaction score
351
Location
Colorado, USA
There are many posts related to the Hohner Morino's, and I was wondering what the skinny is on them. I have done a search, with almost 1000 returns, but didn't find one addressing my question.

Some specific questions below, but seek any and all comments/opinions on the Morinos, including the history of Morino and his connection to Hohner [I assume it's similar to Gola].

What's the progression of models offered and basic differences? Hohner vs. Excelsior vs. Pigini?

Are they all Cosotto equipped? Available with Free bass?

Reed configurations? And, A mano, Tipo a Mano or Machine made?

Years of manufacture?

Weights?

Going rate (cost)?

I recollect some posts about some models that used the improper adhesive on the pallets that resulted in pallets sticking to the sound board. Which were these, and how are they identified?
Conversely, which model/year is the most desireable and why?

Thanks all & Press on....
Waldo
 
A great webpage with historical information is: http://www.pigini.homepage.t-online.de/Gebrauchte_Akkordeons_PIGINI_EXCELSIOR_Morino_Gola.htm. But it is in German.
This page really only deals with the Morino PA model history, mainly the M, N and S series. All of these are cassotto equipped and all were available with Free bass. The older Morino I has no cassotto. The CBA versions are also different. They are named Artiste and come in D, N and S series. Only the Artiste IX and X are cassotto models and correspond to the PA versions (N and S series at least). The IV and VI have no cassotto. The older D series at least had a declassement semi-tone chamber by placing the L reeds under/behind the keyboard.
The reeds were tipo a mano (the deluxe models may have a mano reeds).
The connection to Hohner as far as I know is that Hohner built the M series, Excelsior built the N and S series and after Excelsior was taken over by Pigini the Morino sound that many people love (and that was mostly that of the X and S series) has changed quite a bit.
 
There is a lot more interesting information on Morinos out there, but a lot of it is in German, for example at the musiker-board.de forum.

Ill add some quick notes, but this isnt comprehensive. Ill be referring to PA versions mostly as I dont follow the CBA versions much, but within the Morino space you also get other diatonic instruments and the British Chromatic Shand Morino. There are other members here with much more knowledge about the latter.

WaldoW post_id=59875 time=1528430071 user_id=1663 said:
Some specific questions below, but seek any and all comments/opinions on the Morinos, including the history of Morino and his connection to Hohner [I assume its similar to Gola].
In brief:
- Venanzio Morino was at Hohner from 1928 and retired in 1952 (died in 1961)
- Giovanni Gola joined Hohner in 1952

On the PA side, only the M series, and earlier (e.g. 5055, 5555, I, II), were actually made while Venanzio Morino was at Hohner. And even then, there are two different generations within the M series. The newer M was produced up to 1970 (i.e. well into Giovanni Golas time). You can tell the difference between the old and new M series by:
- the old M has only one central decorative metal stripe on the grille, the new M has 3
- the old M has a rectangular bass button layout, the new M has the typical diagonal layout
- the old M has a decorative stripe running along the edge of the keyboard, the new M does not
- the old IV M has a different set of bass registers (2+3, 1+2+3+4, 3+4) than the new IV M (1+2+3, 1+2+3+4, 2+4)
- some of the old IV Ms have a unique built-in, cassotto-like chamber on the bass side
There might be some overlap where not all of the above apply, but these are my general observations. I believe the older design was phased out by the late 1950s. I think mechanically they were pretty much the same. The later M series had damper felts around the bass buttons, though. The main difference was probably just the reeds used.

WaldoW post_id=59875 time=1528430071 user_id=1663 said:
Whats the progression of models offered and basic differences? Hohner vs. Excelsior vs. Pigini?
The Hohner-made series used a central bellows locking mechanism instead of bellows straps. It also used a lever system to open the bellows, instead of bellows pins.

Another feature on the Hohner-made series versus the later Italian models is the placement of the treble register switches. On the M series the switches lay flat and therefore do not obstruct the cassotto opening. But since this design died out, I guess most people dont really care much about it. Other than that, the M series, and earlier, used older register mechanics and they still have wooden keys.

WaldoW post_id=59875 time=1528430071 user_id=1663 said:
Available with Free bass?
The VI M and VI N series had the free bass buttons next to the usual bass buttons, so you typically ended up with 164 or 185 bass buttons. This was the main free bass system at the time. After those models at some point they started offering free bass with the converter system.

WaldoW post_id=59875 time=1528430071 user_id=1663 said:
Reed configurations? And, A mano, Tipo a Mano or Machine made?
In the M series you could find a lot of different reeds. These could range from older Hohner handmade reeds, to whatever reeds they used in non-Morinos at the time (e.g. Atlantic), to handmade Italian reeds (e.g. Bugari). I dont know enough about the later models to comment on that.

WaldoW post_id=59875 time=1528430071 user_id=1663 said:
Years of manufacture?
Have a look in this document for a general idea: http://forum.melodeon.net/files/site/Hohnermodels.pdf

WaldoW post_id=59875 time=1528430071 user_id=1663 said:
In general he M series tends to be lighter than a similarly specd later model. There were some threads on specific weights over at the German forum, but I need to look for them again.

WaldoW post_id=59875 time=1528430071 user_id=1663 said:
I recollect some posts about some models that used the improper adhesive on the pallets that resulted in pallets sticking to the sound board. Which were these, and how are they identified?

I believe this was mostly within the N series. But this did not happen to all of them and theres no way of telling just by looking at the instrument. Youll have to play it.

WaldoW post_id=59875 time=1528430071 user_id=1663 said:
Conversely, which model/year is the most desireable and why?

For practical purposes you probably want to go with the N series or later.
The (PA) M series and (CBA) D series do have a different character and if you dont care much about the older mechanics and their extra noises, then by all means grab one if it is in good condition. The pre-1950 Morinos would be pushing it too far.
 
A good summary of some of the known wisdom there, Morne! Very useful to many, no doubt.

A few of the missing bits:

In terms of the desirability of a Morino IV M it is good to know that it's the older ones that have Hohner reeds (I don't know how many types) and later ones have Bugari reeds. The ones with the Bugari reeds are the ones to get!

The MIII system with the three separate rows for the melody bass was not abandoned completely after the N series. I have never seen a VI S, maybe the VI was no longer produced when the N series stopped, but the CBA versions, the Artiste X definitely still came in the S series (I have one).

I believe that Hohner stopped using Bugari reeds when and maybe also because Bugari stopped making reeds. The S series has Cagnoni reeds, but it is quite possible that near the end of the N series the Bugari reeds already ran out and Cagnoni started being used. I believe that at least part of the subtle sound difference between a Morino N and S comes from the differences in reeds being used.

The improper adhesive used on the pallets was not a problem specific to the Hohner Morino but was a problem for all accordion brands made in Castelfidardo. For a period of about 3 months they all used the wrong glue. In total about 10.000 accordions were produced that have the problem best known as the "klebemorino". During the course I took in Castelfidardo one of participants had brought a Bugari Artist Cassotto from the same short period and sure enough it had the same sticky keys problem as the "klebemorino". When an older instrument is offered for sale at a very good price you should definitely check whether it has the sticky keys problem. These problem accordions still change hands regularly. The only way to identify such instruments is to try them. There are no markings of any kind that identify them, with any brand. The period in which this problem occurred the Hohner Morino N series was being built in Castelfidardo (by Excelsior) but only a small fraction of the Morino N accordions have the problem as it really was only for 3 months of production.
Some people may say it's not really a problem: just press every key (and bass buttons, actually only the 12 base notes is enough) and once they have all been pressed they will not stick for the subsequent hours you play them. But the reality is that after some time the pallets which are felt+leather (leather to close the holes, felt to absorb the shock of releasing a key) will separate: the leather lets go from the felt and that's when you have BIG problems, especially on the bass side where the pallets are hard to reach.

The Morino series that is technically the best is the S series. But some people prefer the N series which has a slightly different sound (only noticeable if you hear them side by side). Some peeople really prefer the M series sound but mechanically the N and S are much more advanced. Accordion technology has not stood still since 1950...
 
The info i gathered on morinos:
The N series unless serviced has this sticky key problem, it might not have it now but at some point will. They have bugari TAM reeds. There are older and newer N series. The old one has a similar keyboard to the gola. The S series is supposedly mechanically an improved version of the N with no sticky keys. I like this morino alot although i dont think they sound much different then the N. Both the N and S series are relatively heavy. The s series have cagnoni reeds. Mine is a vc and it looks like the inside (reedblocks, cassotto structure) is the same as the later M series but the mechanics are of a N serie. Then on the new ones i think the morino iv 120 etc arent that nice but the plus looks grwat. I read it have some kind of roughness in the cassottoshaft to dampen the sound. Its also alot lighter then the older ones. Also the morino 374 is a 96 bass morino but with plastic keys so maybe not the nicest.
 
wout post_id=59889 time=1528456874 user_id=1654 said:
The info i gathered on morinos:
The N series unless serviced has this sticky key problem, it might not have it now but at some point will. ...

No, this is definitely not true. Most Morino N accordions are fine. I know many people with a Morino N which never had the sticky key problem and never had the pallets changed either. The sticky key problem was caused by using a new glue (which turned out to be a bad idea) and the problem with this glue was discovered after three months of production. All accordions made in Castelfidardo in that small time window suffer(ed) from the same problem. Everyone immediately stopped using this glue once the problem was discovered. The N series was in production for over 15 years and only the ones made in this three month period have the problem, that is between 1 and 2% of all N morinos in existence.
 
JerryPH post_id=59896 time=1528473556 user_id=1475 said:
Do you know the year that this 3 month period was in?

Sadly, no. I have never seen the period published, nor the range of affected serial numbers.
 
Thanks you'all! Your answers generated several more questions.
Also, Morne, thanks for the link, very useful.
How do the roman numerals fit into the picture relative to the letter designations?
How many rows on the CBA's?
What is the difference between a Free Bass and a Converter accordion? I thought they were the same thing.

Press on....
Waldo
 
WaldoW post_id=59906 time=1528487950 user_id=1663 said:
What is the difference between a Free Bass and a Converter accordion? I thought they were the same thing.
Free bass is a bit muddier in meaning than converter. A converter converts, meaning that there is some way to switch the chord buttons to single notes instead. Systems are C system mirrored, B system mirrored, B system rotated (which is what bayans use), quint system (basically each row pair is one octave higher when you go outwards but arranged like Stradella basses).

Free bass means single notes. It is rarely used for converters. It is used for both systems with only single notes in the left hand, typically 4 rows, as well as systems with additional single note rows, typically 3 inner rows. In that case, the outer Stradella rows might just be 5 (2+3, nominally missing the diminished chords). The 3+2+3 systems tend to have 164 basses, the 3+2+4 systems 185.
 
Thanks for the explain G-mo. I'll be starting a new thread on this subject.

W
 
WaldoW post_id=59906 time=1528487950 user_id=1663 said:
How do the roman numerals fit into the picture relative to the letter designations?

For the PAs the following typically apply:
- IV = 4 voices (LMMH) + standard bass
- V = 5 voices (LMMMH) + standard bass
- VI = 5 voices (LMMMH) + standard bass + free bass (MIII)
At some point they also had:
- VII = 4 voices (LMMH) + standard bass + free bass (MIII) (see: http://jerryph.com/files/morino7n.jpg)

There might be some outliers after the N series, but I dont know those models well enough.

I suppose for the CBAs therell be a similar kind of meaning behind IX, X and XI, but again I dont know them.

debra post_id=59895 time=1528471543 user_id=605 said:
wout post_id=59889 time=1528456874 user_id=1654 said:
The info i gathered on morinos:
The N series unless serviced has this sticky key problem, it might not have it now but at some point will. ...

No, this is definitely not true. Most Morino N accordions are fine. I know many people with a Morino N which never had the sticky key problem and never had the pallets changed either.
That is sort of what I understood: it is of such a nature that it would have exhibited itself by now. So if you come across a Morino N today and it does not have sticky pallets, then either it was fixed, or it never had the issue and wont get it.
 
Thanks all, much clearer picture now. If I come across one I'll have a much better idea of what I'm looking at. I'll have to make up a cheat sheet to keep it all straight!
Waldo
 
Sorry to rehash an old thread...
I just came across the first Klebemorino to maybe consider for repair. I am no closer at determining exactly when the faulty accordions were produced (not just Morino but essentially everything made in Castelfidardo), but I found an important clue. Here is a picture of the klebemorino (Morino VI N, only some accordions from the N series were ever affected):
http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/accordion-repair/slides/PC041004.jpg>

For those who think this looks just normal, for a Morino VI N the keyboard is a clear indicator that this is one of the more recent morinos (so towards the end of the Morino N series): the keyboard looks perfectly normal for any accordion, except that the Morino VI N from the earlier dates have narrower black keys.
Here is a detail snapshop of what this accordion looks like...
http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/accordion-repair/slides/PC041007.jpg>

The white stuff you see is talcum powder. Instead of replacing the felt on these faulty accordions the dealers who sold them (who did not want to do the proper repair under warranty) put a bit of talcum powder on the (leather side of the) valves. This would fix the problem for a while, but then had to be repeated, over and over again, each time clogging up the whole accordion more and more. So while these accordions were fixable in the beginning (through a laborious repair process) they are pretty much goners now: the talcum powder is just everywhere. Very sad for an otherwise fine instrument.
So... if you see a Morino VI N for sale, if it has narrow black keys it is probably safe, but if it has normal black keys it might be part of the faulty series and it cannot be bought unseen: you MUST check for sticky keys and/or the presence of talcum powder.
 
Seeing that powder residue makes me want to cry... lol

With the exception of the gold initials, this one looks identical to mine. My right hand is 100% perfect, never needed work, however my bass side needed pad replacement thanks to the bad glue... thankfully I *never* puffed talcum powder anywhere in it, I would never be stupid enough to do that even if someone else suggested it. I did have this professionally repaired and it again plays wonderfully.

From what I am told, some VI N's had the left hand go bad, some had the right side go bad and most had both go bad, so in that sense, I am happy that mine needed work on only one side.

I am to this day extremely happy with my Morino. In my conservatory days, everyone and their grandmother had a Gola there, I was the only exception, so I was a bit of a unicorn within the school. My instructor tried it several times, loved the action of the Free Bass slightly better (faster) than his Gola, but did note that it was a heavy beast... lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top