how to put bounce into reels

[jarvo]

Ordered.....to be honest metronomes abound around the house ......I can play to a beat and keep the tempo to drum tracks or to jam tracks........but playing alone ---- the trouble I find is that my idea of slow, in my head is not in sync with the real world .......so maybe I will give one of these portable jobbies a try.....at least it's a tuner as well.....

 

[BobM]

Ordered.....to be honest metronomes abound around the house ......I can play to a beat and keep the tempo to drum tracks or to jam tracks........but playing alone ---- the trouble I find is that my idea of slow, in my head is not in sync with the real world .......so maybe I will give one of these portable jobbies a try.....at least its a tuner as well.....

Let me know when you’ve got it..

Cheers,

BobM.

 

[ChrisH]

Does anyone have any tips on the technique of adding bounce by tapping the foot?

 

[george garside]

Most trad players keep time with the foot and if playing for dancers the bandleader or solo player can synchronise his foot to that of the best dancer in the hall. The other musicians should of course synchronise their feet to those of the leader and this will ensure that at least the band members are in time with each other!

They are in essence ''dancing'' to their own music and thus absorbing the 'feel' of the dance. In terms of a simple um pa rhythm its foot down = um and foot up= pa. or foot down bass note and foot up chord. This will go some way towards providing the required 'bounce'' but to really get the bounce to lift the dancers it is necessary to emphasise the off beat ( or as some say play on the offbeat which is not quite true ) So --- gravity brings the dancers down without you having to do anything musically to help! The job of the musicians is to help the dancers to 'take off' so hence the emphasis on the off beat. The off beat is of course the Pa or chord. So --- play the bass note , the um, as lightly and quickly as possible as the foot goes down and play the chord a bit louder and longer as the foot goes up as this will add 'bounce' and hence 'lift'

In a nutshell it is simply playing a short UM and a long PA. Getting it right takes a lot of practice and the bass note and the chord must be separated by a clear gap which is easily achieved by lifting the fingers off the buttons - the higher the fingers are lifted the longer the gap

Its probably easier to do than to explain!

george

 

[BobM]

Plenty of Bounce here..

 

[ChrisH]

Thanks George, I'll give that a try.

At the moment I'm using a style which is pretty much the exact opposite! I tend to play long bass notes and and short chords. I've taken a closer look at what I'm doing and discovered that I actually overlap the chord with the bass note. When the bass button is released there is a short increase in pressure which creates a relatively loud snappy chord on the upbeat.

I'm aware that foot tapping can add to the rhythmic effect by creating additional pressure pulses as the box bounces on the knee, but I don't really understand how this can work in practice, because for 50 percent of the time the effect would be reversed when the bellows have a negative pressure.

???

Chris

 

[george garside]

Chris - the foot tapping is not intended to bounce the box and is widely used whether standing or seated. Equal length bass and chord gives a neutral effect and does nothing much to help the dancers. long bass note and short chord does just the opposite to providing 'lift' as it provides a hefty note for the 'landing' and bugger all for the 'take off''. The key is in the way the chord is played and it is indeed possible to just tap the chord on the off beat whilst doing not;hing whatsoever on the beat. This is however not easy to keep in time as the short bass note does contribute to the overall timekeeping but not the lift.

The video of Daniel Mcphee demonstrates very clearly the light touch (including getting the fingers off the buttons) needed on the bass to get the bounce.

george

 

[jarvo]

Ordered.....to be honest metronomes abound around the house ......I can play to a beat and keep the tempo to drum tracks or to jam tracks........but playing alone ---- the trouble I find is that my idea of slow, in my head is not in sync with the real world .......so maybe I will give one of these portable jobbies a try.....at least its a tuner as well.....

Let me know when you’ve got it..

Cheers,

BobM.[/quote]


Landed today.....which is two :tup: :tup: for Gear4Guitars (I have an account there as it was just in my backyard in York)

 

[BobM]

Ordered.....to be honest metronomes abound around the house ......I can play to a beat and keep the tempo to drum tracks or to jam tracks........but playing alone ---- the trouble I find is that my idea of slow, in my head is not in sync with the real world .......so maybe I will give one of these portable jobbies a try.....at least its a tuner as well.....

Let me know when you’ve got it..

Cheers,

BobM.[/quote]


Landed today.....which is two :tup: :tup: for Gear4Guitars (I have an account there as it was just in my backyard in York)[/quote]

Good job. I agree with you that the accordion does seem to encourage speeding up, I try to get over this by checking song tempos first, from a recording, but often can still end playing them too fast.

One thing that helps is to play pieces much slower (with a metronome), then increasing the tempo each time, very revealing..

Have you cracked playing the 5th in the bass yet? :?:

BobM

 

[jarvo]

Um,if I have the terminology right ...the 5th being the 5th whole note or tone of the scale and part of the chord.......G is 5th to C in C maj ...yes ?

Therefore using C C chord and then G as an alternative to the E as part of a bass pattern......I wouldn't say "cracked" but I do use it .....more so in my little German Volksleider repertoire...well ,works in progress of:

(Anyanka look away NOW !)

Anneliese Ach Anneliese , Muss i'den ? and In Munchen steht ein Hofbrauhaus..

new works to include Amboss Polka and Mir San ein Holzhackers,buam..........


I've already had a stab at this metronome.......is that a small person on the Paris underground ?..........sorry had to let that one out...........

And, on topic, I also have to get some "bounce" into the above......and I do not think that lightning fast stabs on the bass will do it , George, (though I am practicing them)....these require a more pronounced swaying type of rhythm.........

schunkelmusic (Sorry Anya N'kanka, if you are reading this, nearly over) is not so much for bombing round the dance floor as much as quietly drinking to excess but to musik........... :lol: :roll: :b :ch

 

[BobM]

Um,if I have the terminology right ...the 5th being the 5th whole note or tone of the scale and part of the chord.......G is 5th to C in C maj ...yes ?

Therefore using C C chord and then G as an alternative to the E as part of a bass pattern......I wouldnt say cracked but I do use it .....more so in my little

Yes, but it’s better to turn it on it’s head, and generally use a 5th before the 3rd, because the root and 5th is fundamental to a solid 2 in a bar rhythm. That’s not to say that there’s no place for the 3rd, of course there is, but more as a detail like C C7/E F.

Once youve got that under your belt, it can also quickly be turned into a Tango or into a Waltz.

Most bassists, (me included) playing off a chord chart in 2 or 3 in a bar, to start with, arent going to play just the root, or root and 3rd, it’s going to be Root and 5th simply because it’s got more depth.

If you can get a good left hand finger shape over the buttons, whether or not you play the 5th becomes instinctive because if its the same note as the melody, it can sound weak, and then the 3rd or root may sound better.

In short, get that 5th going! :tup:

BobM.

 

[ChrisH]

Sorry to disagree George, but..

Ive listened to the Daniel McPhee track, and tried a few tunes with short bass notes, but I have to say that to my (novice accordionist) ears a longer bass and short chords adds a lot more bounce.

For example....



Chris

 

[jarvo]

Sorry to disagree George, but..

Ive listened to the Daniel McPhee track, and tried a few tunes with short bass notes, but I have to say that to my (novice accordionist) ears a longer bass and short chords adds a lot more bounce.

For example....



Chris

I think that this business of the short stabbing red hot buttons technique is a classic example of technique over style over personal preference.....and whilst I fully understand and support Georges advice and urging to learn the red hot button technique I also believe that it should be one of many techniques and styles to be put in your bag of tricks.....and it is ,to be fair, one of the harder techniques ( I find anyway ) to get right.....and I too am only a couple of years into wrestling this little box into submission !!

It does not suit all styles of music (IMHO) ....and I dont think that it suits all Trad Folk tunes... as shown in the vid......but definitely a technique worth adding.

Now applying the same ..or similar technique to the treble side works wonders...get off the key as soon as possible before pressing another makes a much less muddy sound to the melody.....pianist problem...where the note naturally decays on the piano ,even when held, it obviously does not on the accordion.

CJ

 

[george garside]

Sorry to disagree George, but..

Ive listened to the Daniel McPhee track, and tried a few tunes with short bass notes, but I have to say that to my (novice accordionist) ears a longer bass and short chords adds a lot more bounce.

For example....



Chris

Chris , the you tube you have quoted is in fact a very good example of putting the emphasis on the chord. Yes you can clearly hear the bass note but it is followed by a slightly longer chord which provides the bounce or lift for the dancers. This is not always obvious when just listening to the music ( possibly because the single bass note is louder than the chord) but is somehow felt by the dancers .



Try playing at a ceilidh with long UMs and short PAs and the dancers will struggle. An indication that are catching the offbeat is when want to move to your own music

george

 

[smdc66]

just watched daniel mcphee and was surprised how he played without moving bellows - in his 1st song seemed like the bellows moved only a few cm , then a little more for 2nd song but only moved really when he was finished

sorry if slightly off topic but was watching for the button stabbing too (which i found a little tricky in itself as he was moving at speed)

maybe should have listened more

 

[george garside]

You are dead right about the bellows! Its one of the delights of the British Chromatic system. Because you have two of everything exept G, D and A it is often possible to play a few notes out followed by a few notes in or even the same notes out followed by the same notes in so the bellows appear to be going nowhere. ( in case we have any pedants lurking there are two Bb's but they are both in the same direction )

A true story about Sir Jimmy Shand is that on one of his major tours abroad an angry bloke burst into his dressing room after the show and accused him of miming, saying that he could at least have moved the bellows . Jimmy said something on the lines of ''watch carefully'' and proceeded to play the complex high level hornpipe with just one pleat of bellows open!.

Don't all queue up at once to buy British Chromatics as there won't be enough to go round!

george

 

[Puxto]

For example....



Chris

Heeey! Thats Basil, the guy who taught me! Only had a couple of lessons due to distance and money but he started me off in the right direction, and not wishing to enter into the debate, but he did strongly encourage practising the hot button technique, despite having quite a relaxed approach this was one of the few things he was strict on, that and the bellows. I think my heavy fingers at the time made him cringe a little. That said the first piece of advise he ever gave me was to Go with the flow. Good bloke :tup:

 

[BobM]

That said the first piece of advise he ever gave me was to Go with the flow. Good bloke :tup:

.. and he may be trying to get in the Guinness book of records, as the most YouTube’d accordionist. Have learnt a lot from studying his videos.

BobM.

 

[Puxto]

I should add, I didn't like it either but over time it makes sense. I dont think it should distract from anyones enjoyment of playing though, its just something well worth keeping in mind, In the long run in it will give more ability to actually emphasise those bass notes that matter, so the bass will sound more dynamic. It actually becomes even more satisfying I say in the long run, I'm only a few years in still and I've only started to understand these subtleties a little more recently, and for me I wasn't strict with it, it came over time. I guess if you're being taught formally and want to learn quickly you have to be strict, but if your happy learning in your own time, it'll just come one day, and then you'll think "Blimey, George was right!" :lol:
I agree in sentiment to what everyone else is saying, and completely understand it, but George knows what he's talking about on this {} :ch

 

[Puxto]

.. and he may be trying to get in the Guinness book of records, as the most YouTube’d accordionist. Have learnt a lot from studying his videos.

BobM.

Yeah he keeps busy doesnt he! Fixes and sells boxes too http://www.squeezydoesit.com/
I should probably study some of his videos, do some catching up so to speak as hes a bit far away to go and see every week