KILLER ACCORDION

[Waldo]

Donn,
I did not know that, Thanks. I mostly hunt and peck for the pitches I want, as I don't read music on the fly. Once I find the progression I want, I memorize the pattern. Not the best way to go, but It's all I have for now. I'm somewhat behind on the bass side learning curve because I'm trying to break the treble side "looking" habit, which demands most of my concentration. I intend to go about it properly when I commence learning the DBA. Having only 3 rows should help me stay in alignment, as will a thumb on the button board edge.
Thanks again for the tips.

Press on....
Waldo

 

[Mr Mark]

Regarding the Liberty Bellows accordion...the bass buttons are also different. I wonder about the stories this accordion has to tell that no one will hear.

Oddly enough.

 

[Waldo]

96;
Being as the machine screws are metric, I'm pretty sure it was a factory F/U.

 

[Siegmund]

The "7th" row actually contains the diminished chords, one column off. I occasionally wonder if makes a noticeable difference in how the 7th sounds. On the common 2+4 Stradella, the 7th includes the root note, and omits the 5th, but on 3+3 it includes the 5th and omits the root instead. That makes it a diminished triad starting on the 3rd - 3rd of that column, but on the root of the next sharp-ward column. I suppose there could be accordions where this isn't the case, but I think we've established that it's this way even on some 80-bass 2+3 Stradella accordions.

If you're the type who likes to hear all 4 notes of a seventh chord, it quite often sounds as good or better to play (e.g.) G+Ddim than D+G7. If it weren't such a long stretch I would play them that way quite often. The times that one specifically wants only 1-3-7 without 5 are rare enough in classical or folk music that I would be perfectly happy to have only a 357 row rather than separate seventh and diminished rows. It'd be nice to have it be a shorter stretch.

It'd be nicer still if the the button that played B-D-F was in the G row than in the D row..heh...but that bit of common sense appears to have taken root only in Russia and never spread anywhere else.

 

[debra]

If you're the type who likes to hear all 4 notes of a seventh chord, it quite often sounds as good or better to play (e.g.) G+Ddim than D+G7. If it weren't such a long stretch I would play them that way quite often. The times that one specifically wants only 1-3-7 without 5 are rare enough in classical or folk music that I would be perfectly happy to have only a 357 row rather than separate seventh and diminished rows. It'd be nice to have it be a shorter stretch.

It'd be nicer still if the the button that played B-D-F was in the G row than in the D row..heh...but that bit of common sense appears to have taken root only in Russia and never spread anywhere else.

Getting all 4 notes of a seventh chord is easy enough by just pressing the major chord button and seventh together. And for a complete dim you press dim together with another dim three buttons up or down, because there are only 3 dim chords in existence. There are many more interesting chords that are formed using two chord buttons. The only chords you cannot form are augmented fifth (like C-E-G#) because all chord buttons have either one major and one minor third or two minor thirds. Some accordions were built purposely with an augmented fifth instead of a diminished row.

 

[donn]

It'd be nicer still if the the button that played B-D-F was in the G row than in the D row..heh...but that bit of common sense appears to have taken root only in Russia and never spread anywhere else.

I think it's the other way around?

My Cavagnolo does put B-D-F on the G column. I've read that the Russian version is offset, but I that that's starting from the standard 3+3 with "3/5/7 no root" 7th row. Starting from the common 2+4 Stradella, it's just a matter of omitting the 7th row.

 

[96Bass]

96;
Being as the machine screws are metric, I'm pretty sure it was a factory F/U.

Since the vast majority of accordions are made in countries where metric is the standard, I would expect that the hardware in an accordion repair shop would be metric regardless of where it is located.
I find it hard to believe that the wrong type screws were installed at the factory. My bet is that they were replaced with the wrong type at the retailer. We will never know for sure, that, we can be sure of.

 

[Waldo]

Enough said. I'm KILLING this thread!

 

[Ffingers]

Enough said. I'm KILLING this thread!

Screw that ;-)

 

[Waldo]

OK, then. Who am I to argue with the masses!

 

[Tom]

It's almost impossible to get good help these days.

 

[Ffingers]

It's almost impossible to get good help these days.

...especially if you underpay them forcing them into working several jobs just to survive.

 

[Tom]

...especially if you underpay them forcing them into working several jobs just to survive.

True enough.

 

[Dingo40]

On further reflection, it seems to me there's been an error in the design of how the shoulder straps are attached to this particular instrument.
I note the shoulder straps of my "better " accordions are anchored using a u-bolt each, the u-bolts attached to the instrument internally with machine nuts: stronger than wood screws in this application.?
The use of a separate u-bolt for each strap, further adds to the security of the instrument.

 

[debra]

On further reflection, it seems to me there's been an error in the design of how the shoulder straps are attached to this particular instrument.
I note the shoulder straps of my "better " accordions are anchored using a u-bolt each, the u-bolts attached internally using machine nuts: stronger than wood screws in this application.?
The use of a separate u-bolt for each strap, further adds to the security of the instrument.

The "u-bolt" is indeed the more common approach these days. That doesn't mean other types of "anchor" cannot work safely. Many people (including myself) always had doubts about the Hohner Morino anchor, commonly called the "Gardinenstange" (curtain rod) because it doesn't look very sturdy, yet it has been holding on my 18kg Artiste X S for many years and hasn't failed on all my friends using it on their Morino. (Some mistrusted it enough to have it replaced by u-bolt brackets.)
An important aspect is the location of the bracket. When it is on top of the accordion (in the playing orientation) the full weight of the accordion is trying to pull out the screws (or bolts). But when it is at the back then most of the weight of the accordion is applying a perpendicular force which is much less likely to pull out the screws. (On the Morino the "Gardinenstange" is mounted on the back.)

 

[jozz]

stronger than wood screws in this application.?
The use of a separate u-bolt for each strap, further adds to the security of the instrument.

not necessarily,
wood screws of this size can easily hold 20kg withdrawal force lengthwise each (if penetrated enough in proper wood)

the accordion is not even 10kg total, has at least two anchor points and is not pulling straight out of the wood

(although I agree it would 'feel' more secure to have an expensive accordion fitted with (u-)bolts)

 

[Ffingers]

That's static force, jozz, which can being defeated by vigorous jerking action.

 

[jozz]

That's static force, jozz, which can being defeated by vigorous jerking action.

ok but,
there are not many things that you should vigorously jerk, least of all your accordion..

 

[Ffingers]

Not even when performing at a public dance, as many entertainers seem to do?

 

[jozz]

yes but if the action becomes so violent and near breaking point, the screws may not even be the weakest link!

but I totally agree an 8.000€ box must have the best mechanical fasteners available all around, so I would also expect bolts and nuts in this case...