KILLER ACCORDION

[Scuromondo]

I have never—even on the relatively inexpensive Chinese Hohner Bravo and Amica boxes I have tried—felt movement or any signs of weakness in the strap fasteners of any new accordion.

I have difficulty believing such an accordion could have left the Beltuna factory in this condition. While nothing is impossible, it seems more likely to me that damage or incompetent modification occurred at some later time.

 

[Tom]

ok but,
there are not many things that you should vigorously jerk, least of all your accordion..

Hmmm, don't forget covid. 6 feet rule.

 

[Waldo]

Jazz wrote:
wood screws of this size can easily hold 20kg withdrawal force lengthwise each (if penetrated enough in proper wood)

the accordion is not even 10kg total, has at least two anchor points and is not pulling straight out of the wood

(although I agree it would 'feel' more secure to have an expensive accordion fitted with (u-)bolts)

Waldo responded:
If one screw was good enough, then why have 3 holes in the bracket? Another factor; When a load is attached via one point, there is always the potential for a "rocking" motion, in all planes, to loosen the attachment. Two fasteners reduces the "rocking" motion to a single plane. Three fasteners in a triangular pattern removes all the adverse effects of "rocking". Obviously, the designers of the brackets felt 3 screws were necessary.

The bottom anchor point doesn't carry any of the load, only serves to hold the case to the body (I checked this out). The top anchor point was the bracket missing the correct screws (only 1 wood screw). The load is straight out (the least capable holding orientation). Proper design places screw/fastener load (see: F1) in shear (although often impossible).

I my opinion, U-bolts are the proper way to go. As mentioned in a previous post, I suspect they went with the lightest option they had, as the accordion in question was engineered to be as light as possible, considering tone and price.

I wore and played the accordion without failure (although, mostly sitting). Imagine walking down a flight of steps, desending from a stage. Every step would result in several G's being applied to that one screw (that's 20-30kg) as I bounced down the stairs. Luckily, that never happened.

Scuromundo:
Believe it. It happened. I examined the holes from which the machine screws were extracted and there were no "threads" impressed inside the hole walls. They were smooth, as drilled. Could only be that way if the error occurred at the factory.

 

[boxplayer4000]

Some people think that the Scandalli Super V1 series of accordions were the best accordions ever made and they have been well discussed in this form. Waldo complains about the inadequate shoulder strap mountings on his Beltuna 200B being a mixture of machine screws and wood screws. He should note that on (at least one model) of the Scandalli Super V1s that only ONE machine screw is used.
The fact that Beltuna use three screws is surely a plus and the fact that they use a mixture of screws (machine/wood) may be due to the construction limits inside the instrument. The photo below is of a Scandalli which I expect to see soon for repairs.
Regarding the bellows pins which are not at 90 degrees it is normal that they are not at 90 degrees when only partly entered. When only partly entered the (new in this case) bellows seal is holding the two parts apart. The pin will become vertical when the two parts are pressed together and the pin fully entered.
I understand Liberty Bellows are a major US retailer. They seem to be quite enthusiastic about the Beltuna 200B.

 

[debra]

...
The fact that Beltuna use three screws is surely a plus and the fact that they use a mixture of screws (machine/wood) may be due to the construction limits inside the instrument. The photo below is of a Scandalli which I expect to see soon for repairs.
Regarding the bellows pins which are not at 90 degrees it is normal that they are not at 90 degrees when only partly entered. When only partly entered the (new in this case) bellows seal is holding the two parts apart. The pin will become vertical when the two parts are pressed together and the pin fully entered.
...

1) Screws are normally used when you cannot use bolts and nuts, i.e. when on the inside there is no room to fit a nut. Screws are also used when the wood is thick enough that a fairly strong screw can be used.
2) Bellow pins are not at a 90 degree angle by design. When you place the accordion in its feet the bellow pins on the treble side should slide in at a *slight* angle upwards, and when you insert a pin on the bass side it should go in at a *slight* angle downwards. When you pull on the bellows the pulling force then actually pulls the pins inwards, thus tightening them. (At a 90 degree angle the pins are not pulled in or out, and at the wrong angle the pulling force on the bellows actually pushes the pins out.

 

[forró]

I know this thread is a few years old now, but I am glad when people take the time to write these sorts of detailed reviews, complete with pictures.
This thread, and others like it - regarding the attention to detail (or lack thereof) from Italian manufacturers is a bit surprising when you compare to discussions regarding Chinese manufacturers. A lot of people avoid (me included) Chinese made accordions due to the supposed lack of quality, plagiarism, etc.
However, when you consider the relative cost difference - one does have to wonder whether we are too easy on some of the Italian manufacturers.

Waldo has spent 8000 $USD on an accordion - which may not be a vast sum in the world of Italian accordions, but it is nevertheless a hell of a lot of money in absolute terms. I think that should be paired with high expectations.
A part of the problem I think (from reading some of the posts here) is that people have low expectations - oh you should expect there to be minor defects. Really? Why?

This is not specific to Italian accordions, this is / was common in the Italian automotive industry as well until the Japanese showed people a few decades ago you should expect high quality from lower prices -- and definitely not expect low quality from high prices.

I have spent a lot of time around motorbikes and seen the terrible quality from some Ducatis from the 90s and early 2000s. Similar Japanese motorbikes were:

1) higher quality
2) required less servicing
3) could take more abuse
4) were cheaper - and interestingly -
5) performed better.

I would watch in amusement as people complained their brand new Ducati with 5km on the odometer wouldn't start, or required some intervention from a mechanic at a very early stage because of an assembly line mishap, or in some cases, because of some fundamental bonehead design.

I get a similar vibe reading this thread. Wrong screws? Things falling apart? Sounds suspiciously similar to Italian automotive work.
The nonsense continued because people kept buying regardless of the issues, putting it down to the flair, or the 'character' of the bike. Yes, it's quite the character if bolts holding the engine to the frame loosen and fall off whilst you're riding, or poor design results in the bike catching on fire.

Frankly, if people stopped buying - they will clean up their act.
How likely is that to happen? Not likely.

 

[Dingo40]

Japanese showed people a few decades ago you should expect high quality from lower prices -- and definitely not expect low quality from high prices.

I've been buying basic model Hyundai cars for about 30+ years now and couldn't be more satisfied from the word go!

 

[forró]

I've been buying basic model Hyundai cars for about 30+ years now and couldn't be more satisfied from the word go!

I remember seeing green Hyundai Excels everywhere back in the day.
It was almost like they had a 20 year special if you just bought it in green

 

[Dingo40]

It was almost like they had a 20 year special if you just bought it in green

Many actually ran for 20 years without needing more than routine servicing.
I still have a 22 yo "Accent" that starts first pop, burns no oil, probably has original brakes original paint and no rust!
My girls drove it back and forth to university, 200 km daily for 8 years: never any problems.
All it's ever needed is oil changes, new tyres, batteries around 5 years each, spark plugs and a replacement a/c compressor (recently): it's done about 190,000 kms. ( two new preemptive timing belts @ around 90,000 kms each).

 

[forró]

Many actually ran for 20 years without needing more than routine servicing.
I still have a 22 yo "Accent" that starts first pop, burns no oil, probably has original brakes original paint and no rust!
My girls drove it back and forth to university, 200 km daily for 8 years: never any problems.
All it's ever needed is oil changes, new tyres, batteries around 5 years each, spark plugs and a replacement a/c compressor (recently): it's done about 190,000 kms. ( two new preemptive timing belts @ around 90,000 kms each).

Great reliability. Something the end customer will notice and appreciate.

 

[Tom]

Many actually ran for 20 years without needing more than routine servicing.
I still have a 22 yo "Accent" that starts first pop, burns no oil, probably has original brakes original paint and no rust!
My girls drove it back and forth to university, 200 km daily for 8 years: never any problems.
All it's ever needed is oil changes, new tyres, batteries around 5 years each, spark plugs and a replacement a/c compressor (recently): it's done about 190,000 kms. ( two new preemptive timing belts @ around 90,000 kms each).

Ditto on Toyota. I always bought used Camrys for the kids to learn on and beat up. Run forever unless you hit a deer. Oldest is 23 years old, my mechanic friend is replacing the brakes and exhaust. Beat up but starts right up and probably run forever. Highest mileage is 275,000 (442,570 km). Hoping to get 300,000. As they say, “Solid as a PanCordion.” Had a Mazda truck I loved, only had to change the timing belt, fortunately it busted 2 blocks from my house and in those days you could actually work on stuff. Only American company I can relate is Red Wing whose shoes are ridiculously good, but getting so expensive, and even half are now made “over there.” I play my new small Piatanesi hard at the gigs and so far so good, we’ll see how it goes.