Patti Bros age? Pulled TWO key axle shafts!

[32251]

I got this for very cheap just because I liked the classic look of it, it’s all there with original case and it’s actually in good physical shape. Check out the “P-F” meter on the front. Has 4 Reed banks on the treble side 3 on the bass. Bellows and bass section are good. I’m thinking about giving it some love, but I would like to know sound wise if it’s worth a lot of my work invested. I’m not concerned about time vs value, but I would be interested in how it might sound if anyone has an opinion from hearing one. What would be an age guesstimate? Thanks

 

[32251]

Looks to be pre-50s to me, but with no visible register switches meaning a single set of reeds there would probably be better project accordions out there for the cheap.

Register switch is that wrist bar in front. There are 4 sets of reeds in the treble side with two sliders.

 

[Squeezebox Of Delights]

Definitely pre-war, probably mid-1930s but maybe as old as the late 1920s. It's true that pre-war boxes aren't particularly desirable, but lots of them are very well made, incredibly beautiful, and have a lovely, strong sound. I personally adore them. Soundwise I've never heard a four voice Patti, but I own two four voice Frontalinis, and the LMMM one - I imagine the closest to what you have - has one of the nicest tones I've heard (even though it's filthy, leaks like anything and is actively falling apart). The sound is incredibly full, and the vintage reeds give it a harsher edge than your typical musette accordion. All the other pre-war musette boxes I've heard sound similar. I'd say go for it, particularly if it's already in good shape. There's nothing wrong with trying to bring an old box back to life. Just remember that if you plan on selling it you might only get a couple of hundred dollars for it at most, and whatever repair work you undertake is likely to take more time and money than the accordion is worth. But yes, if I were you, I would definitely want to repair it. They don't make accordions like that anymore : )

 

[Squeezebox Of Delights]

I don't have much good footage of the Frontalini. Here's a video, but it really doesn't do the sound justice.

 

[Tom]

I got this for very cheap just because I liked the classic look of it, it’s all there with original case and it’s actually in good physical shape. Check out the “P-F” meter on the front. Has 4 Reed banks on the treble side 3 on the bass. Bellows and bass section are good. I’m thinking about giving it some love, but I would like to know sound wise if it’s worth a lot of my work invested. I’m not concerned about time vs value, but I would be interested in how it might sound if anyone has an opinion from hearing one. What would be an age guesstimate? Thanks

Wow, the Patti Brothers from Milwaukee, cool!!!! I agree it’s probably “pre war.” Never seen such a “volume meter,” I suppose piano or fortissimo based on the number of treble reeds selected? I would humbly submit that it’s an act of love because of its age it will be difficult to bring back its original sound. It’s gonna sound like it is, a vintage accordion . Anyway, a cool project, congrats and good luck! Thanks.

 

[32251]

I don't have much good footage of the Frontalini. Here's a video, but it really doesn't do the sound justice.

Fabulous!

 

[32251]

Went ahead and removed the keys. I figured if I couldn’t get the keys out, there was no use working on it. It has TWO shafts. I hook a heavy guitar string around the one that i guessed would be for the black keys and tapped the guitar string like you would a slide hammer for auto body work….after a while, it moved! Tried the other one and the loop broke off, so I figured that one was the white keys. So I’m thinking get the black keys out and that will expose the white keys shaft, so that’s what I did. Next was just a puzzle of snip and pull with cutters and strong needle nose pliers. Lucky the shaft is brass, so it snips easy. After getting everything out, I can see why the shaft would not slide out after all these many decades. The key base is solid walnut. There are 40 pieces of walnut, the two ends, and ALL the white keys!! I will probably replace this with some stainless welding rod. Anyway, I did manage to get all the keys out. A learning experience for sure. The pallet plate is a sheet of aluminum.

 

[Dingo40]

I personally adore them.

Me too!
Not as old as yours:

 

[Glug]

I inherited a 1935ish Santianelli (48 bass MM 5/2) which needed a lot of fixing.
Two axles, similar to yours, I levered the axles out using picture wire and nail pullers:



You can buy cover plates that are specifically for covering the axle ends.

 

[32251]

I inherited a 1935ish Santianelli (48 bass MM 5/2) which needed a lot of fixing.
Two axles, similar to yours, I levered the axles out using picture wire and nail pullers:



You can buy cover plates that are specifically for covering the axle ends.

 

[32251]

Basically the the same use of wire, except I needed the slide hammer thing to get it moving. I did knock it in a few times to help break it free. After looking at how this Patti is made, I would like to see how they drilled all these holes through all this wood and got it all lined up.

 

[debra]

Be glad when you find spindles with a loop at the end! Most accordions just have a straight end to the spindles and often they are in too deep to be able to use pliers to grab them in order to pull them out. You then have to remove a bit of celluloid and wood around them to at least get a drill head to grab them so you can start to wiggle them out. The "straight pull" shown in the pictures here is definitely not the best way to remove a spindle. Gentle rotation in both directions tends to work best, at least to get the first movement.
Having two spindles is a sign of better quality than when there is only one. (And on a CBA you typically have three spindles but sometimes even more.

 

[gfreed]

I don't have much good footage of the Frontalini. Here's a video, but it really doesn't do the sound justice.

Great sound! What's the piece you are playing?

 

[John Doe]

Be glad when you find spindles with a loop at the end! Most accordions just have a straight end to the spindles and often they are in too deep to be able to use pliers to grab them in order to pull them out. You then have to remove a bit of celluloid and wood around them to at least get a drill head to grab them so you can start to wiggle them out. The "straight pull" shown in the pictures here is definitely not the best way to remove a spindle. Gentle rotation in both directions tends to work best, at least to get the first movement.

The big issue with the straight pull is that it is quite liable to become anything but as more axle is pulled out. Given that the OP is planning on replacing the axle in any case that is less of an issue, though just whacking off a length of welding rod for a new axle may prove more challenging in the end than one might expect.
Pulling it with pliers works best with the accordion on a bench held securely and the end of the rod gripped as close to the accordion as possible with SMOOTH jaws of the pliers as close to the fulcrum as possible for best grip. A half inch at a time before regripping will afford the best control to avoid bending the rod.
Twisting the rod to free it up can be effective but it can also prove disastrous. it's surprisingly easy to have an old rod snap off partway up the length while being twisted leaving you well and truly stuck with a length of inaccessible rod stuck inside the keys.*
You can usually suss out where the upper end of the rod is and then carefully drill a neat hole allowing you to insert a drift and carefully tap the rod out from the top- once it starts moving it can usually be pulled pretty easily.
Clean the rod with 000 steel wool or 1200 grit sandpaper before reinserting being sure to clean it well.

May good fortune smile upon your efforts.


* The mid twentieth century "How to Fix Any Part of Any Accordion" manual recommended hooking up a car battery to both ends of a stuck axle (requiring access to the top) for a brief period (look for a puff of steam/smoke...) to deal with really stuck axles through heat. Given that it was contemporary with the accordion in question ( the author envisioned 6 volt car batteries...) I suppose it ought to be considered. You'd have to get at the top end of the axle. I haven't done it myself and figure there's potential for a mess if one "has at it with gay abandon" but there it is.

 

[Ventura]

the car battery concept does not rely upon voltage so much, but the
high and sudden amperage that type of battery can discharge

the pivot rod will not be very high in natural electrical resistance, just
like any other thick wire really, so the actual circumference/guage of
the rod is a factor too, but essentially you have to feed SO MUCH amperage
through the rod that the current finds some resistance simply due to the intensity
of the huge reservoir of Current being forced through this small roundness

hence, heat is produced

like popping a small hole in the bottom of the Dike/Dam

if you have a thick leaf-type footswitch or an extra Mercury switch
you can wire into the circuit to cut the flow on and off, you will have
quicker control of the process, and can stop as soon as you detect
heat/steam/a flash of bright orange light/smoke/fire

as for the pulling, some of you will have a huge Shop Vise on your workbench too,
and i typically set things up so i can grab the tip of the rod with the edge of the Vice jaws,
which can hold on to it like death itself, and then i tug and (rubber mallet) tap and tug
and tap and slide the accordion off the axle (it has to be a big ass vise)

don't forget to bungee cord the keys so they don't go popping and flying off everywhere

i remember Ike telling me of a repair he did once, where he had to repair
the old wooden holes in some keys that had worn wide/oblong, so he refilled
the wood holes then cut drill angles into a spare Pivot rod the same size and
slowly re-drilled the holes in-place by hand

talk about a labor of love !

 

[John M]

Be careful with the car batteries as the starter on a car with a 12V battery can draw 200 Amps. The amperage is double with a 6V battery, so 400 Amps. I would use jumper cables to supply the current and to open/close the circuit. There will be sparks. Don't open/close the circuit at the battery posts -- you may have an explosion.

 

[Squeezebox Of Delights]

Great sound! What's the piece you are playing?

Thanks! It's a lovely mazurka/waltz by Andy Cutting, called In Continental Mood

 

[John Doe]

talk about a labor of love !

The driving factor in essentially all of my repairs these days from assorted brass and woodwinds through the denizens of the accordion ranch. There are a lot of posters here who worry about "getting your money back" and "resale value". I fix 'em to play 'em and if the tuning is less than accordion orchestra perfect so be it. Close enough for Gummint work is my motto there- the dog (my primary audience- doesn't seem to mind.

I entertain myself with them. As for resale... I usually give them away- they are not a financial artifact to me.

Be careful with the car batteries as the starter on a car with a 12V battery can draw 200 Amps. The amperage is double with a 6V battery, so 400 Amps. I would use jumper cables to supply the current and to open/close the circuit. There will be sparks. Don't open/close the circuit at the battery posts -- you may have an explosion.

I - and the author of the refenced manual- surely don't envision an accordion teetering on the intake manifold while accessing a car battery. A charged battery sitting on the work bench and very heavy gauge jumper cables by an instrument resting on the workbench would be a more apropos picture. There might well be sparks- especially with a 12 volt battery. I'd hook both clamps on to the battery- being cautious not to touch the ends together- then spring clamp one cable to the upper end of the axle shaft and then briefly 3-4 seconds to the lower end of the shaft. Battery gases can be explosive- you want to avoid sparks at the terminals of the battery by the electrolyte covers. A 12 volt charger won't work as it doesn't have enough current reserve to heat the axle- you'll just blow it's fuse (if it has one).

Again, I haven't done this myself and so can only tell you what the 1950-ish manual by an experienced repairman recommended.

That said, a little at a time and the vise (with care you can really get some oomph into your straight pull- a bit at a time) or pliers method is probably the surest bet for success. The mighty Thor might relish the potential sparks- yours truly not so much.

 

[John Doe]

And lest you think I'm making this up... From the horse's mouth as opposed to from my slipshod memory and personal trial and error experience.

 

[Ventura]

yep, there's the original source

but ain't no way i am gonna change the size of the pivot rod or the
tightness of the holes

at that point it becomes PARTS in the attic

fugghedaboudit

now i don't categorically object to the electrocution of old reluctant accordions..
in many countries Shock Treatment is still an approved method of persuasion..

there was a recent case of the Hohner attacking it's owner in the dark