Russian 3 Row bayan

[maugein96]

Every now and then I have a notion for something new, and every now and then the notion wears off.

However, for some time now Ive been listening to Russian players playing bayans like the one in the photo. I have no experience of these whatsoever, but my understanding is that they have either two or three treble reeds tuned very dry, and what is described as a typical bayan bass sound.

There are no registers on either side to afford voice changes but that is not a major issue, and I wouldnt worry too much about them being B system, as Im sure I could adapt to that. These instruments are occasionally available in the UK with or without a bass converter switch, but at my level of competency free bass would probably not be required. They are also available from the Russian Federation for not a lot of roubles, hence the attraction.

Has anybody ever had experience of owning/playing this type of instrument, and if so, how do they compare with the average western European, or Asian made accordion? The treble and bass buttons all sound a bit loud in operation, although I have French and Italian accordions which also have that tendency.

I know you get what you pay for, and all Im doing here is trying to test the water. They generally sound OK on You Tube, but if their mechanics mean you need fingers like pistons to play them, then I wouldnt be interested. I have identified a handful of makes which seem to be common, but appreciate few people on here will have heard of any of them.

Here is a photo of one such typical instrument which captured my attention. No dim7 row on the basses, and no converter coupler or air button on this one, but one like it would be an interesting addition to my wee collection of accordions.

 

[TomBR]

Ive got one awaiting refurbshment, aquired quite cheaply on Ebay. Mines a Tula/Tulski - one of the biggest makers I believe.

Sadly mine got damaged in transit but nothing I cant repair. (The only instrument Ive had damaged in years of Ebaying.)
From examination so far Id say the general fit and finish is not that different from a middle of the road Italian instrument of similar age. Dont know about the reeds yet. From watching bayan vids Im expecting plenty of bellows movement!

Given that its a three row, Im planning on rearranging the reeds to put it into C system.

I like this guys style as he talks about, and demonstrates, instruments he has for sale. Even though I speak no Russian.


Tom

 

[maugein96]

Ive got one awaiting refurbshment, aquired quite cheaply on Ebay. Mines a Tula/Tulski - one of the biggest makers I believe.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks for that info. I recognise the guy in the clip. He sells on eBay, but shipping is nearly as dear as the instruments themselves and in some cases even dearer. That box hes playing has very noisy treble buttons, but has a nice sound nevertheless. I believe they are of fairly robust construction, and tend to be on the heavy side.

When I first started out on CBA (never played a PA) I was on C system, and still am. After a few years I realised the players I liked all played B system, two variations of it, known as Do2 (Charleroi)and Do3 (Liege). You can still get them new and used on the continent, but they arent that common even there and you could waste a lot of time trying to find one that suits. Ive often thought about buying one, but even the cheap ones are a fairly big investment.

I bought a new box once on eBay unseen and resolved not to do it again. However, these bayans look as though they might be worth taking a punt on. I suppose even with the carriage cost theyre still not a bad buy. Ive seen UK sellers charging double for what appears to be boxes they have imported and just moved on. Import duty and VAT wont be all that horrific either, but interested to learn yours arrived damaged. I know a guy who could fix anything that fell off, and if I didnt I wouldnt even consider it.

Id just leave it as a B system, as that would be part of the novelty for me. Ive never really been into Russian music as such, and cannot speak the language either. I used to have a collection of various stringed instruments from all over the world, but ran out of space and got rid of most of them. Only problem with accordions is they do take up quite a lot of house room.

Thanks again for that very helpful input. The quality of the construction was my main concern, but you have gone some way to address that. I have an old French box where the felts below the treble buttons hit the bare keyboard, as the little fiddly nylon dampers are all missing, and it clicks a bit, but its a great box and very easy to play.

 

[Morne]

I have no experience of these whatsoever, but my understanding is that they have either two or three treble reeds tuned very dry, and what is described as a typical bayan bass sound.

The kind of bayan youve shown is much more likely to have two treble reeds. Ive yet to see a bayan with three voices (LMM or LMH) that did not have register switches. Ive seen that eBay seller mentioning reed counts, but sometimes it seems like hes counting reed blocks. For example, in this ad he mentions 3 treble reeds and 2 bass reeds. Thats not a likely situation, but when you look at the photos youll see the 2 bass reed blocks (=4 reed), but no photos of the treble blocks. These bayans always have 3 treble reed blocks, hence the 3 treble reeds. It might just be a translation issue, but I wouldnt necessarily count on whats written there. And they always seem to be rare and professional.

There are no registers on either side to afford voice changes but that is not a major issue, and I wouldnt worry too much about them being B system, as Im sure I could adapt to that.

Ive mentioned this before, but that is actually the typical bayan. In the European tradition a register-less, two voice accordion will likely be seen as a student/beginner/lesser instrument. But over there that is, or at least historically was, the standard, and they actually have a specific term when referring to multi-voice instruments (многотембр баян = multi-timbre bayan). Nowadays with the bigger bayans being a more common sight (relatively speaking) we might not think about that distinction if we look at it from our Western perspective.

Has anybody ever had experience of owning/playing this type of instrument, and if so, how do they compare with the average western European, or Asian made accordion? The treble and bass buttons all sound a bit loud in operation, although I have French and Italian accordions which also have that tendency.

Ive never touched one, but I do believe the general feeling is that they will have louder mechanics than a comparable west European instrument. For example, you wont find damping felt around the bass buttons and the pallets typically are straight leather on wood, not leather and felt. Theyll also not be as light to the touch. Which brings us to:

They generally sound OK on You Tube, but if their mechanics mean you need fingers like pistons to play them, then I wouldnt be interested.

If youre used to modern (like maybe a decade or two old?), light action instruments then it might take some getting used to. And maybe you cannot do AK-47 staccato as easily.

I have identified a handful of makes which seem to be common, but appreciate few people on here will have heard of any of them.

Ive seen a thread or three on goldaccordion.com where some models were compared, but I cannot remember what was said off-hand.

 

[Morne]

treble reeds tuned very dry

I forgot to mention that that, too, is the default. Although you probably wont see this much on ebay, there is a specific term when a bayan has some MM tremolo (в розлив). The Google translations are horrible and youll get things like in bottling. I dont fully understand the idiomatic use of that term, but it seems like has something to do with pouring/spilling liquid. Or I might be totally wrong, but at least I know the Russian term gets me what Im looking for.

Youll then end up with bayans like these being wet:

 

[maugein96]

Youll then end up with bayans like these being wet:

Hi Morne,

Thanks very much indeed for that detailed and comprehensive info. I wasnt completely taken in by the three treble reeds description, but youve now explained that away.

I knew an old guy years ago in Scotland who had one of his C system CBAs retuned to sound like a bayan, but unfortunately never got to hear him play it. He was a pro who played jazz, swing, and French musette, but reckoned the Russian bayan was the best accordion sound he had ever heard. Whether he was meaning the 3 row or the 5 row versions with free bass, built in alarm clock, fridge freezer, and 147 TV channels, Ill never know. Ill certainly not be buying one of those, as we can only get about 45 TV channels where I live, and I dont know whether theyd take my house as a deposit!

To be honest Ive never listened to the music much or the bayans either, but Ive been long fascinated by the relative simplicity of the instruments. I do believe Ill eventually take a gamble on one but Ive spent a fair bit this year already on an old Cavagnolo and a refurb on my Maugein, and promised to buy the wife a cup of tea and a bun to compensate for my wild spending. When I do get one Ill let you know. I am prepared for the mechanics to be a bit rougher than Im used to, and the only real gamble will be the tuning it has. The tuner I use hasnt got a lot of experience of boxes that are alien to the UK, but could probably alter the tuning if required.

Interesting to hear those wet tuned bayans but Im not really a fan. They just dont sound right to me.