Should I invest in MIDI WIDI or line6?

[Simon Max]

Hi,
My bread and butter accordion is a battered Elkavox LMMM piano accordion.

I also own a FR-7xB which is also quite battered, but in pretty good working condition and I just bought a FR1x-B in almost mint condition.
I would like to sell the FR-7xB and probably the Elkavox too.

The problem is that the FR-1 has no punch at all. I do own a Roland Cube that runs on batteries, but do not want to be tied down by cables.

Another challenge of late is remembering songs. I do not read music well, as I have never taken any music lessons, but I am thinking of trying to learn how to read simple songs so that I can remember the songs that I play by having them in note form. There seems to be an abundance of software that can write MIDI to notation.

Is there a wireless MIDI solution that can solve these two problems?

I can always buy a simple line6 transmitter for amplification and use wired MIDI for recording and notation, but If there is a wireless MIDI solution that enables me to connect to my CUBE and to my computer, I should probably go for that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Simon

 

[Airy]

...
If there is a wireless MIDI solution that enables me to connect to my CUBE and to my computer, I should probably go for that.

Hi Simon, happy New Year!

A MIDI connection alone (neither cable nor wireless) will not transmit sound/audio. Only MIDi which is notes and instrument commands.
So you have two choices:

• Connect MIDI (e.g. "CME WIDI Uhost") wireless to your computer for notation and/or to playback your scores on the FR1x.
  Connect separate audio wireless (e.g. Line6 transmitter / receiver) to your amp for sound.
  
  
• Connect MIDI wireless to your computer for notation (same as above) AND to play a software instrument ("virtual instrument") on that computer which in turn produces sound which you can route (via cable or wireless) to your amp. In this case the soundsets of your accordion will not be used at all and you will have to spend some money for a software which provides adequate soundsets.
  A variation of this scenario would be to split the MIDI (a) to your computer for notation and (b) to some hardware sound generator which then is connected to your amp.
  

note: The above mentioned "CME WIDI Uhost" was not used / tested by myself. It was suggested in a different post for a similar use case.

 

[Ventura]

hi Simon

you want to have help "so that I can remember the songs that I play"

for that you simply need a little piece of paper with a list
of the song titles
and
next to each Song, the first note (where to put your hand and finger)
and the first Chord to be played

it also is nice to have the Key you play the song in,
if you are good at finding your starting point from knowing the Key,
if not, just the first note first chord will do

the Line 6 is a very good audio wireless for V-Accordion, because it's
input circuit is highly tolerant of waveform spikes caused (usually) by a
sudden strong bellows or key press event. many wireless systems, especially
5 volts or less powered, can be easily distorted

i use a Line 6 with a Street Cube, with a AA battery holder velcro'd
to the side to power the Line 6 receiver. it has been reliable and useful
with both Acoustic/Mic'd accordions and an FR3

 

[Airy]

addendum:
As said before, I didn't yet use the "CME WIDI Uhost" myself. The benefit of this device is that it uses the USB port at the bottom of the FR1x. And MIDI via USB is bidirectional on the FR1x whereas the regular DIN-MIDI connector at the bottom of the FR1x is (unlike with some other Roland Accordions) only "OUT" = "to the computer".

For notation a one-way connection is sufficient, but you later may have the wish to do more with MIDI either while you are at composing or in a live venue. Therefore the bidectional USB-MIDI connection may have an advantage.

But if you prefer the unidirectional DIN MIDI connection, we had a discussion here lately that it is convenient if the MIDI wireless device can be powered directly by the FR1x. This is true for the "Quicco Sound mi.1 Wireless Midi Adapter" which I use myself. Maybe this is true for other devices as well, but no confirmation in this forum so far.

 

[losthobos]

I'm clueless..but for what it's worth don't invest in crypto.....

 

[simonmax]

Hi Simon, happy New Year!

A MIDI connection alone (neither cable nor wireless) will not transmit sound/audio. Only MIDi which is notes and instrument commands.
So you have two choices:

• Connect MIDI (e.g. "CME WIDI Uhost") wireless to your computer for notation and/or to playback your scores on the FR1x.
  Connect separate audio wireless (e.g. Line6 transmitter / receiver) to your amp for sound.
  
  
• Connect MIDI wireless to your computer for notation (same as above) AND to play a software instrument ("virtual instrument") on that computer which in turn produces sound which you can route (via cable or wireless) to your amp. In this case the soundsets of your accordion will not be used at all and you will have to spend some money for a software which provides adequate soundsets.
  A variation of this scenario would be to split the MIDI (a) to your computer for notation and (b) to some hardware sound generator which then is connected to your amp.

note: The above mentioned "CME WIDI Uhost" was not used / tested by myself. It was suggested in a different post for a similar use case.

Thanks, Airy. Your point that midi will not transmit the Roland sounds, wins me over. So a cable solution for transcribing songs is the way I'll go.

 

[simonmax]

hi Simon

you want to have help "so that I can remember the songs that I play"

for that you simply need a little piece of paper with a list
of the song titles
and
next to each Song, the first note (where to put your hand and finger)
and the first Chord to be played

it also is nice to have the Key you play the song in,
if you are good at finding your starting point from knowing the Key,
if not, just the first note first chord will do

the Line 6 is a very good audio wireless for V-Accordion, because it's
input circuit is highly tolerant of waveform spikes caused (usually) by a
sudden strong bellows or key press event. many wireless systems, especially
5 volts or less powered, can be easily distorted

i use a Line 6 with a Street Cube, with a AA battery holder velcro'd
to the side to power the Line 6 receiver. it has been reliable and useful
with both Acoustic/Mic'd accordions and an FR3

Hi Ventura,
I have an Excel list of songs, with the first few notes in a separate column. Capital letters for 1/4 notes , small letters for 1/8 notes and parentheses to connect them. This helps for songs that I play and know well. There are songs that I don't remember all the parts, and I figured that if I wrote them, and learned how to read them, it might help to jog my memory.

Is there a line6 solution for stereo? Let's say that I want to have the left and right in different channels on a mixer.
Thanks,
Simon

 

[Airy]

So a cable solution for transcribing songs is the way I'll go.

I didn't argue against wireless MIDI. I'm pretty happy with my wireless MIDI connection (see above). I use it to record my improvisations on either an iPad or a Mac to pick out the best passages, arrange and print these excerpts and then I call this an "original composition"

 

[Tom]

As much as I hate say it, I recommend improving your ability to read music, since this is how you can find your new songs (you didn't mention whether you learn by ear). Then use "abc notation" or some other software to make your own arrangements, something pretty common among people on this forum.

Remembering songs is a challenge for many of us. Playing your repertoire continually helps, as does using the sheet music (in lead sheet form) as a cheat sheet.

Good luck!!!!!

 

[JerryPH]

Now... when someone says "wirelesss MIDI" we are talking about the MIDI signals between the v-accordion and an arranger OR to be captured on a computer... we are not talking about sending analog sound from the v-accordion to an external AMP or sound system.

BlueTooth is currently NOT a good idea thanks to the extremely long latency times and short distances.

That said, currently CME is working on a low latency BlueTooth wireless transmitter between (let's say) an accordion and an AMP or a recording device, but it is not out even in beta form yet. I am going to be one of the early adopters, and hopefully they *might* have something out in mid-2023, but for now, if you want to get ANALOG sound out of your V-accordion to an amp or recording device, you need to go the standard route that all other accordionists are going. Because it is BlueTooth, distances are going to likely be shorter than normal transmitters, but in the future for home use, for me I would like that. If it does 20 feet as a maximum distance, I still would be well within that range as my capture device *FireWire mixer) is within 10 feet of where I play to make recordings... but as I said, this is not even close to being out and available yet.

I like the LINE6 line of products... reasonable price, good performance... however I am NOT a gigging professional, The Line 6 unit is a MONO device and I want a stereo setup and do not require a lot of distance, so I use the Getaria STEREO wireless transmitters/receivers and they work wonderfully . They are really affordable too.

I had to make a custom wire adapter from the accordion to the transmitter, but that was a walk in the park. I actually used them once "as a pro" and had no failures at all, but I had a spare cable ready and waiting for me just in case I had a failure. I also spent an hour testing for reliable distances, and stayed well inside the minimum reliable range at all times. For extended playing times (their own weakness), I added a $5 phone charger battery that increased playing times from 2 hours to well over 24 hours on a single charge.

For home recording, they are just awesome, since distances are even closer between the receiver and transmitter units.

 

[Airy]

Is there a line6 solution for stereo? Let's say that I want to have the left and right in different channels on a mixer.

1) JerryPH already suggested Getaria STEREO wireless transmitter / receiver

2) Boss may also offer a stereo transmitter / receiver package: Boss WL-20L
(You would need the "20L" version as the other is for e-guitar pickups only!)

Google brought this up after I searched for a stereo solution. But I'm not really sure if this is stereo. It has a TRS plug which may be an indication for "stereo", but the manual doesn't say anything about stereo. And all instrument examples they list are usually mono only. You would have to ask them directly.

BOSS - WL-20/WL-20L | Wireless System

WL-20/WL-20L: Wireless System - Wireless Freedom Made Easy

www.boss.info

 

[Chris Laarman]

Is there a line6 solution for stereo? Let's say that I want to have the left and right in different channels on a mixer.

Why not check with the vendor, rather than with your fellow users?

 

[Chris Laarman]

1) JerryPH already suggested Getaria STEREO wireless transmitter / receiver

2) Boss may also offer a stereo transmitter / receiver package: Boss WL-20L
(You would need the "20L" version as the other is for e-guitar pickups only!)

Google brought this up after I searched for a stereo solution. But I'm not really sure if this is stereo. It has a TRS plug which may be an indication for "stereo", but the manual doesn't say anything about stereo. And all instrument examples they list are usually mono only. You would have to ask them directly.

BOSS - WL-20/WL-20L | Wireless System

WL-20/WL-20L: Wireless System - Wireless Freedom Made Easy

www.boss.info

Getaria: most products look quite familiar for AliExpress shoppers, just yet another brand name. (I have at least two of these.) However, I don't recognize their GWS-28 stereo transmitter and receiver, which appeals to me, regardless of accordions.

Boss: I'm in doubt too. The use of a TRS-jack seems related to charging both items at once, not on the transfer of stereo sound.

"Fun fact" regarding that Getaria page: it features this "new" Cube-Baby. It's a multi-effect pedal for guitar. Quite small. For a great part of 2021, I have been wondering where I had put it. (It's related to the bigger "Cube Sugar" pedal and the "H8" headphone amp.)

 

[JerryPH]

Getaria: most products look quite familiar for AliExpress shoppers, just yet another brand name. (I have at least two of these.) However, I don't recognize their GWS-28 stereo transmitter and receiver, which appeals to me, regardless of accordions.

Amazon.ca

These are a bit different from what I have. Mine are stereo 1/4" jacks, these are 1/8" stereo jacks with an adapter that moves it to a 1/4" mono jack. The price has literally more than doubled since I purchased mine. They now list at $78 Canadian. I paid $38 with free delivery at the time. Even at that price, they are the most reasonable stereo option available for AMATEUR use today.

 

[JerryPH]

Why not check with the vendor, rather than with your fellow users?

Line 6 does not make a stereo setup... and worse, Larry has tried 2 mono setups and they interfere with each other when close (like within 2 feet of each other, if I recall)... not the ideal choice.

 

[Chris Laarman]

Amazon.ca

These are a bit different from what I have. Mine are stereo 1/4" jacks, these are 1/8" stereo jacks with an adapter that moves it to a 1/4" mono jack. The price has literally more than doubled since I purchased mine. They now list at $78 Canadian. I paid $38 with free delivery at the time. Even at that price, they are the most reasonable stereo option available for AMATEUR use today.

Yes, I meant those GWS-28 with the 1/8" jack and adapter. I'm offered them at €50 with free shipping (as always in the EU: tax included). Prime membership may matter.

I have added the item to my wishlist, but it will have low priority.

 

[JerryPH]

Yes, I meant those GWS-28 with the 1/8" jack and adapter. I'm offered them at €50 with free shipping (as always in the EU: tax included). Prime membership may matter.

They work fairly well for me. I was able to go from the basement to the 2nd floor of my home and never had a drop in signal. Outdoor testing gave me about 50 feet (15 meters), but I never need more than maybe 5-15 feet (4.5 meters) for 99% of the time.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

I have two sets of the Getaria GWS-28 units. They have 1/8 inch stereo jacks that take either a stereo or mono 1/4 inch screw on adapter . I use one pair to send audio stereo from my bk7m to my Fr4x using a two mono to single stereo adapter on the bk7m and an 1/8 inch stereo adapter lead on the accordion with a right angle plug and the receiver mounted on one of the straps with Velcro.
For most playing that works well with all the audio coming through the accordion speakers.
I can also plug the other transmitter into one of the accordion outputs using a mono screw on adapter on the gws 28 to send the combined accordion and bk7m audio to my battery powered Bose s1 pro.
With this setup I can be completely wireless and battery powered.
The gws units will last me a three hour gig of pretty much continuous playing.
Range varies though. I’ve had played where is was 50 feet and I could wander fine and others where I’d get drop out (from accordion to sound system) at 10 feet so it seems to really vary a lot.
Im also using CME wireless midi (WIDI) devices to send midi from the accordion to the bk7m. Again, I’ve had mixed results. Sometimes it great but other times it has really struggled to stay connected.
Now I keep a set of cables in my bag ‘just in case’!
I do like the getaria stuff though because it can be used in stereo mode with just the one pair of units. Most other stuff seems to be aimed at guitarists.

 

[JerryPH]

That is the one fact in life, anything Bluetooth will never have good range (more than 20 reliable feet), it’s not made for that and it is simply too low powered.

 

[Chris Laarman]

I have two sets of the Getaria GWS-28 units. They have 1/8 inch stereo jacks that take either a stereo or mono 1/4 inch screw on adapter . I use one pair to send audio stereo from my bk7m to my Fr4x using a two mono to single stereo adapter on the bk7m and an 1/8 inch stereo adapter lead on the accordion with a right angle plug and the receiver mounted on one of the straps with Velcro.
For most playing that works well with all the audio coming through the accordion speakers.
I can also plug the other transmitter into one of the accordion outputs using a mono screw on adapter on the gws 28 to send the combined accordion and bk7m audio to my battery powered Bose s1 pro.
With this setup I can be completely wireless and battery powered.
The gws units will last me a three hour gig of pretty much continuous playing.
Range varies though. I’ve had played where is was 50 feet and I could wander fine and others where I’d get drop out (from accordion to sound system) at 10 feet so it seems to really vary a lot.
Im also using CME wireless midi (WIDI) devices to send midi from the accordion to the bk7m. Again, I’ve had mixed results. Sometimes it great but other times it has really struggled to stay connected.
Now I keep a set of cables in my bag ‘just in case’!
I do like the getaria stuff though because it can be used in stereo mode with just the one pair of units. Most other stuff seems to be aimed at guitarists.

1) Thank you for sharing your experience with the GWS-28.

Getting carried away:

2) Yes, most (other) stuff seems aimed at guitarists. That's where the money is. - "Every" household's got at least one guitar, and the "real" players run out of space to store theirs. Especially their electric ones. Me, I'm a dabbler on many instruments, but I have bought at least three electric guitars and a bass guitar in 2022 alone. And my FR-1XB. (I bought my big Startone piano accordion in 2021, amidst more guitars.) - Once somebody has been lured into playing electric guitars, he'll also want amplifiers and effect pedals (and need strings, cables, whatever). - I just checked Bax for accordions. They claim to be the biggest music store in the Netherlands, but look at the accordions they have in stock.

3) If you should wonder about my accordion heroes: (Dutch spelling) het Orkest van het Internationaal Danstheater and Pèkô Niglô. The latter must be a guise of the former, likely with Theo van Tol on the accordion. There was a time when we knew each other.
(An error may have occurred while creating these Spotify links to the artists.)
It may explain why I wanted the big Startone and then added the FR-1XB as a button accordion.