Paul and I have butted heads many times over the years for the same thing, but please be respectful, everyone is fully entitled to share their opinions.
Taking the plunge, Roland FR-4xb
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Ventura
Been here for ages!
i too found the "debbie" slur unacceptable
RTW
Member
As an aside, I was taught the Bellows are the Heart of the Accordion controlling the volume soft to loud, stopping a note on a dime and allows for other techniques such as bellow shake etc. I understand with a Digital Accordion the bellows are for "modulation" only, not required to sound the note? The two instruments discussed here are completely different from each other in how they function making comparison difficult.
Until you have played both there is nothing to compare, we can discuss the differences between digital and acoustic accordions until we are blue in the face… but we can share experiences and feelings to some limited extent.
The definition of heresey to many, if I may… let’s pick the widest gap I can provide… playing a Gola and playing an 8X. Both are top of the hill in their respective camps, but I keep falling to that old Bruce Lee saying:
“When I was young, a punch was a punch and a kick was a kick. As my knowledge grew, a punch became more than a punch and a kick became more than a kick… now that I am learned, a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick…”
To me now, because I own both, they are both accordions and each has their own level of superiority over the other
To answer RTW’s question, the Roland accordions can be set up to do either… play no sound with no bellows pressure or to give maximum possible volume with no pressure and pretty much everything in between.
The bellows can be seen as the heart, lungs and main volume controller of an accordion, it is where expression may be added or removed, but the bellows do not define if you are making noise or music, that comes from your brain down to your arms and fingers to your accordion.
The definition of heresey to many, if I may… let’s pick the widest gap I can provide… playing a Gola and playing an 8X. Both are top of the hill in their respective camps, but I keep falling to that old Bruce Lee saying:
“When I was young, a punch was a punch and a kick was a kick. As my knowledge grew, a punch became more than a punch and a kick became more than a kick… now that I am learned, a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick…”
To me now, because I own both, they are both accordions and each has their own level of superiority over the other
To answer RTW’s question, the Roland accordions can be set up to do either… play no sound with no bellows pressure or to give maximum possible volume with no pressure and pretty much everything in between.
The bellows can be seen as the heart, lungs and main volume controller of an accordion, it is where expression may be added or removed, but the bellows do not define if you are making noise or music, that comes from your brain down to your arms and fingers to your accordion.
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Ventura
Been here for ages!
the bellows on a digital provide a data stream that is interpreted
by the software to control the voices
since it is pure data, this too can be manipulated by software and settings
such as having a minimum attack threshold or minimum controller
floor for volume or expression or even a fixed value so the keyboard
can simulate an organ accordion
on the Roland it is entirely possible, and a very effective approach,
to have the bellows perfectly still, then press a key gently, then make
a graduated squeeze to "pressure up" the note (reed or other sound simulation)
this allows for nuance and live control of fade in and blending with
other notes or vocals, and the Roland is very sensitive for this method.
in other words you can press a key or keys, then fade a grand crescendo
from zero volume through maximum and back to zero merely by your squeeze,
and therefore the timing of the note is also controlled by the rate of squeeze
i first used with on my original FR7 to better perform "Con te Partiro"
in performance and as a way to showcase the FR7's capabilties at shows..
this became Rose's absolute favorite version and i had the pleasure to play it
for her many times on and after gigs at Roxy's
by the software to control the voices
since it is pure data, this too can be manipulated by software and settings
such as having a minimum attack threshold or minimum controller
floor for volume or expression or even a fixed value so the keyboard
can simulate an organ accordion
on the Roland it is entirely possible, and a very effective approach,
to have the bellows perfectly still, then press a key gently, then make
a graduated squeeze to "pressure up" the note (reed or other sound simulation)
this allows for nuance and live control of fade in and blending with
other notes or vocals, and the Roland is very sensitive for this method.
in other words you can press a key or keys, then fade a grand crescendo
from zero volume through maximum and back to zero merely by your squeeze,
and therefore the timing of the note is also controlled by the rate of squeeze
i first used with on my original FR7 to better perform "Con te Partiro"
in performance and as a way to showcase the FR7's capabilties at shows..
this became Rose's absolute favorite version and i had the pleasure to play it
for her many times on and after gigs at Roxy's
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
I also prefer to think well of our board members and accept it as no more than a typo. Heaven knows I make more than my share of them (referring to my recent post concerning crap/cramps… lol)I think no slur was intended, it was just another auto text typo.
RTW
Member
By JerryPH: " I also prefer to think well of our board members and accept it as no more than a typo"
I would add "spell check" will change a word one types in that goes unnoticed, especially when texting and happens to me often
Regards
RTW
I would add "spell check" will change a word one types in that goes unnoticed, especially when texting and happens to me often
Regards
RTW
The man who invented predictive Text has died may he "Rust in P_ss"
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
There once was a"reading " teaching method , the "look and say" method ( for school children) based on "predicting" what the next word in the text was.
What chance did the kids have?
What chance did the kids have?
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Walker
🪗
If I were going to buy a Roland accordion I would also go for the compact and light FR4X (or the next version when it's released)..
However, I have also been interested in the Roland sound module INTEGRA 7.
Has anyone ever used one of these with a Roland accordion before?
However, I have also been interested in the Roland sound module INTEGRA 7.
Has anyone ever used one of these with a Roland accordion before?
ChrisH
Member
The Integra-7 is an awesome beast with around 6,000 voices. I bought one as a lockdown project to interface with my Hammond XK-3c (two manuals and pedals).
You should be aware that it won't be a matter of 'plug and play'. It'll take time and effort to get your head around the complex architecture and MIDI setups for both the Integra and the FRX and then figuring out ways of making them work together to do what you want.
You'll need to find ways of using the FRX buttons to select voices. The iPad interface is very good for general setting up, but not useful when playing. Lower level set-up in the Integra's panel is a very fiddly process. There is a computer-based editor, but I think it's been left behind by the current Windows and Mac operating systems.
I have a lot of fun exploring the voices on the Integra, but bear in mind that at the end of the day you'll probably end up with a relatively small number of favourite presets accessible from the FRX.
A good first step would be to consult the user manuals ... all freely available on the Roland website.
Good luck if you decide to go ahead.
You should be aware that it won't be a matter of 'plug and play'. It'll take time and effort to get your head around the complex architecture and MIDI setups for both the Integra and the FRX and then figuring out ways of making them work together to do what you want.
You'll need to find ways of using the FRX buttons to select voices. The iPad interface is very good for general setting up, but not useful when playing. Lower level set-up in the Integra's panel is a very fiddly process. There is a computer-based editor, but I think it's been left behind by the current Windows and Mac operating systems.
I have a lot of fun exploring the voices on the Integra, but bear in mind that at the end of the day you'll probably end up with a relatively small number of favourite presets accessible from the FRX.
A good first step would be to consult the user manuals ... all freely available on the Roland website.
Good luck if you decide to go ahead.
The price of the Integra 7 is around $3200, tax included locally, and though it has a ton of sounds it has no arranger section. If I was to spend around that level of money it would be, for me, better spent on a yes, much more (more expensive) Ketron Event X which is basically the Integra 7 with more sounds and an arranger… which calling this an arranger is like calling a Roll Royce a car… lol
I agree completely with comments from ChrisH & Jerry they are both spot on ! With their comments. !!
You can have fun tinkering around with it at home .But to take it out and live gig with it is a completely different ballgame. .too complex. Excellent for studio work and recording I'd give it 10/10
All the same it is a top end piece of kit .I looked at the earlier model .my comments and remarks remain unchanged
Good luck in what ever you decide , play and have fun making Music
ChrisH
Member
I bought mine used on eBay for £850 and could readily resell at the same price.
SteveBox
Well-known member
I am curious. How are the accordion sounds on the Integra?
I have the Roland Sonic Cell, another sound module not as high end as the Integra, but after adding some expansion boards, it has a lot of really nice sounds. However, all of the accordion sounds, maybe a dozen or so, are all rather poor. They don't sound very realistic.
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ChrisH
Member
Synthesised sound is very subjective. A 'quality' or 'realistic' voice is one that you think sounds right in a particular piece of music.
The Integra has a dozen or so legacy accordion sounds, almost certainly including some of those of the Sonic Cell. There is no comparison with the huge selection and configurability offered by the Roland accordions, even the little FR1x.
The Integra has a dozen or so legacy accordion sounds, almost certainly including some of those of the Sonic Cell. There is no comparison with the huge selection and configurability offered by the Roland accordions, even the little FR1x.
Walker
🪗
ChrisH
Member
Sorry, I can't advise on that... I don't have the Dallape extension on my FR1xB and I'm not sure we'd necessarily agree on what sounds more pleasant.
The Integra has two 'SuperNatural Acoustic' accordion sounds: French and Italian. The rest are PCM sounds from older Roland synthesisers.
All of these are just single preset voices with limited editing possibilities. The sets on the V-accordion are based on 5-reed instruments giving you 14 registers, and you can finely adjust the 'wetness' of the tuning and other accordion parameters.
The FR instruments are synthesisers with architecture specifically designed to model accordions for live performance. The Integra 7 is a powerful multipurpose synth primarily designed for studio use. I play mine from a Hammond organ interfaced with a purpose-built MIDI processing unit.
In short, if you're looking for better accordion sounds the Integra probably isn't the best way forward.
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