vintage and choosing the right piano accordion

[debra]

...
As an aside bit of trivia... moths as we typically think of them (the things with wings) dont actually eat fabric. Its their offspring--technically moths, but still in worm-like larval form--that do all the munching! Once they grow up and fly around, theyre apparently harmless.

Call me stupid but I didnt know its not the moths but the larvae that eat the felt. All the more reason to make sure you keep the grille on while playing (unlike Richard Galliano who set the bad example) and to keep grille cloth in place on both the treble and bass side. That leaves very little room anywhere for the moths to get inside. And when there is more fabric around (e.g. on straps and bellows protector) the moths have easier targets than the felts.

So far I have only seen dead mosquitos inside accordions, not moths.

 

[Geronimo]

...
As an aside bit of trivia... moths as we typically think of them (the things with wings) dont actually eat fabric. Its their offspring--technically moths, but still in worm-like larval form--that do all the munching! Once they grow up and fly around, theyre apparently harmless.

Call me stupid but I didnt know its not the moths but the larvae that eat the felt.

Oh. Insect damage to food and fabrics is pretty much exclusively caused by larvae: those are actually the ones significantly feeding and growing. The chitinous exoskeleton requires molts for growth, so many insects have a soft larvae stage they spend the bulk of their growth in before an adult imago stage sustained on rather little food.

All the more reason to make sure you keep the grille on while playing (unlike Richard Galliano who set the bad example) and to keep grille cloth in place on both the treble and bass side.

Oh come on. Those are moths, not oestrinae (Nasendasseln in German) that shoot their activated larvae into the nostrils of their hosts where they immediately burrow. They would not attack a an accordion while being played. Also the eggs are damaged by vibration. This is really only an issue for accordions stored for longer time.

That leaves very little room anywhere for the moths to get inside. And when there is more fabric around (e.g. on straps and bellows protector) the moths have easier targets than the felts.

Uh, those moths very much go for animal hair. They attack wool and felt. Synthetics like on straps and bellows protectors are not a target at all.

So far I have only seen dead mosquitos inside accordions, not moths.

Inside? Must have gotten in through a bass reed. If that happened during play, no wonder the mosquito is dead.

 

[andrewjohnsson40]

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No. I just went to the accordion shop and excange the one I had with another.
It felt a bit old. The thing is: depressing the keys felt like it does on a piano.
Is that something youve come across?
Maybe you guys on this forum could give me some of your thoughts on this accordion.
Right now there are no videos of it so lets go by text.
-what about the issue of depressing the keys? Your experiences?
-it has 41 keys compared to my previous which had 37. Is 41 better? Will it be of any help?

I was told that you can have an accordion with smaller keys even if you play piano.
But I prefer piano sized keys.
My accordion have bigger keys. Will this help me?

I have no idea what you mean by depressing the keys felt like it does on a piano
because the feel should be quite different because of the hammer mechanism.
Also, I dont know of any accordion with piano sized keys. That would make the
keyboard too wide. There are accordions with wider and narrower keys but even
the widest keys will be narrower than piano keys.

Aha ok...
when you play a synth keyboard and a piano keyboard you will feel a difference.
I am here talking about how hard you have to depress the keys. Piano keys require more energy and so on in order to be depressed.
My accordion have more of a piano feel when it comes to this.
Hard might not be the best term but I do not know what to call it.
It still different from piano in other ways.

 

[Tom]

I understand Henri. If this is an antique accordion, it might be that the key mechanism needs to be cleaned and lubricated. In good condition it should be like the synth, not the piano.

 

[Morne]

It might not necessarily be faulty. If we're talking about a 70+ year old accordion, then that (non-weighted) piano feeling might be due to the combination of older wood keys (and their accompanying springs) along with the deeper key travel used back then.

henrikhank, do you have a photo of this accordion?

 

[andrewjohnsson40]

It might not necessarily be faulty. If were talking about a 70+ year old accordion, then that (non-weighted) piano feeling might be due to the combination of older wood keys (and their accompanying springs) along with the deeper key travel used back then.

henrikhank, do you have a photo of this accordion?

Its an Umbaldo Napoli accordion.
The seller took a photo of it: https://mobil.blocket.se/annons/stockholm/nyservat_italienskt_pianodragspel__oppettider/76990364
It has a weighted keys. It does not feel like a synth keyboard.
Should it be like this or did the seller just not fix it? Is this perhaps just how this accordion should be like?
Would a professional use such an accordion or just a beginner?
We have this guy here where I live who uses a small 3 row cba (musette) with no switches I think and he is a professional. One of the coolest cba I have ever seen. So I guess you take what you and the others like.
http://www.samfundetvisansvanner.se...juni2011/visansvanner75ar_11juni2011-2432.jpg

 

[Morne]

Its an Umbaldo Napoli accordion.
The seller took a photo of it: https://mobil.blocket.se/annons/stockholm/nyservat_italienskt_pianodragspel__oppettider/76990364

Zooming in on that photo it seems like the name is actually Bontempi Ubaldo. I dont follow Italian accordions too much, but if that is correct then that would date the accordion no later than the early 1950s. According to this list, the Ubaldo Bontempi manufacturer was active from 1936 - 1952.

It has a weighted keys. It does not feel like a synth keyboard.
Should it be like this or did the seller just not fix it? Is this perhaps just how this accordion should be like?

If the above dating is accurate, then I think what you are experiencing is the deep key travel. Accordion keys definitely arent weighted.
Its only problematic if the keys are making creaking/scratching noises, in which case they might be rubbing up against each other. But if there are no extra noises when you press the key and its just a matter of pressing hard and deep, then thats just the way the keys were set up back then.

Would a professional use such an accordion or just a beginner?

Depends on how you define professional. If the music that you play, and others enjoy, is on a knackered old junker, then who cares? However, in general a professional probably wont be playing something that old.

We have this guy here where I live who uses a small 3 row cba (musette) with no switches I think and he is a professional. One of the coolest cba I have ever seen. So I guess you take what you and the others like.
http://www.samfundetvisansvanner.se...juni2011/visansvanner75ar_11juni2011-2432.jpg

Thats the thing. If the accordion fits the music, then its only a theoretical discussion around all the modern improvements that dont matter in your case.

But clearly, if the keys bother you enough, have a look at other accordions. Theres no need to play something that is uncomfortable if you have other options.

 

[JeffJetton]

[Surprisingly interesting moth facts]

The stuff I wind up learning on this forum, I tell ya... :tup:

 

[andrewjohnsson40]

I actually hear noises when depressing the keys. When playing it's not audible. Are you talking about audible noises when playing or when depressing without moving the bellows.
so older accordions often have deeper key travel? I mean, it's just because they made accordions like that back then rather then something that happened due to age damagw or something?

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Hank,

My Arietta 120/41 is 60 odd years old and sounds beautiful. My Galotta is probably 40+ years old and sounds quite sweet. My Chanson is about 20 years old and it sounds okay.

Though it doesn't sound quite as nice as the other two, the Chanson is the instrument which gets chucked into the car when we go to our Folk Club.

I guess what I am saying is that an instrument should satisfy your needs, and do the job asked of it. For folk clubs, the bar is set a little lower, making my Chinese made Chanson a reasonable choice.

Next week, however, I have decided to take my Arietta for a visit, which I hope will please my chums at the club. (or, as I suspect, they won't even notice the difference)

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[debra]

In the Netherlands there is a popular duo Mélancolique, playing melancholic music, many own compositions. The woman plays a recent Guerrini but the man plays an old Hohner Lucia III (with the gold-color register switches like similar accordions from that era, like the Atlantic series, not the N). They are professional, traveling the country with performances, selling cds, and they regularly make it on national broadcasts. Which just goes to show that a vintage instrument, even a lower-end model, can be used even professionally. (They have a website of course: http://www.acmel.nl/) What they play is refreshingly simple in notes, not virtuoso juggling with a million notes. It stresses how beautiful simple music can sound on even an old accordion.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Paul, they sound good! Many people seek out old instruments for the look, for the tone, for the mojo. My instruments span well over 100 years, as do probably many on here. It's all about whether you love to play them as I always say. The ability of the musician to make you feel is so much more important than the age or quality of his or her tools.

 

[Morne]

I actually hear noises when depressing the keys. When playing its not audible. Are you talking about audible noises when playing or when depressing without moving the bellows.

Without moving the belows. There are different noises you can hear.
If it sounds scratchy or creaky while pressing or releasing the key then whatever is causing the moving parts to rub against one another might also cause the keys to have more resistance.
If it is a clacking noise when you reach the bottom, or when you fully release the key, then that might indicate that the padding below the keys and/or on the pallets are weak.

so older accordions often have deeper key travel? I mean, its just because they made accordions like that back then rather then something that happened due to age damagw or something?

The primary cause of the deeper travel will be because they were made that way back then. However, some form of damage might increase it as well: if the padding on the pallets are compressed or if the keys are bent upwards. The former would also lead to more pronounced clacking. The latter does not seem to be the case in the photo you linked.

 

[Sebastian Bravo]

So far I have only seen dead mosquitos inside accordions, not moths.

Chech this:

Spiders living inside of a Hohner Student VM

 

[donn]

That may have been only one spider, who spent a long time in there, casting off a skin each time it grew larger. So some other creature must have been there along with it, many of them, to serve as food. How lucky the spider was there! or the accordion would have been overrun by the other.

 

[andrewjohnsson40]

I actually hear noises when depressing the keys. When playing its not audible. Are you talking about audible noises when playing or when depressing without moving the bellows.

Without moving the belows. There are different noises you can hear.
If it sounds scratchy or creaky while pressing or releasing the key then whatever is causing the moving parts to rub against one another might also cause the keys to have more resistance.
If it is a clacking noise when you reach the bottom, or when you fully release the key, then that might indicate that the padding below the keys and/or on the pallets are weak.

I hear both of those sounds. Is it easily fixed?
I cant hear it while playing due to the fact that the sound of the music being played is louder. Is it still a problem worth fixing?

 

[Tom]

"I hear both of those sounds. Is it easily fixed?
I can't hear it while playing due to the fact that the sound of the music being played is louder. Is it still a problem worth fixing?"

Unfortunately, these are philosophical rather than technical questions. For the expert repairers here, they would be easy fixes, for you or I they could be fun but consume many hours of exciting discovery. Whether they are worth fixing depends on your goals for the particular accordion. If you really love it and/or are annoyed by the noise, then, sure, why not. If you don't care to put money and/or time in it, and will eventually upgrade to a quiet, new tool, then, why bother?

In other words, my friend, these are questions that only you can answer. Good luck!!!

 

[debra]

...
I hear both of those sounds. Is it easily fixed?
I cant hear it while playing due to the fact that the sound of the music being played is louder. Is it still a problem worth fixing?

When the noises are so faint that you cannot hear them while playing then your instrument is fine and there is no problem. Its only when the noise is so loud it bothers the audience when you are playing that it becomes a problem that needs to be fixed. Every accordion makes noises when operating keys, register switches, bass buttons and bellows, and it is so much part of the nature of the beast that Roland has added such noises to their V-accordions to make them more real sounding...