Western Music vs Eastern Music

[murathan]

Something to understand is Eastern music is the early music that goes back to Pythagoras the philosopher and his theorems. It was the standard for thousands of years before and after. Western music however is developed about Renaissance period. So the western theory is the new music and other is the old. While these are happening in Europe, many nations and the Eastern world continued the old style.

The new Western music standard took many things from eastern methods. Refined and simplified them, basically adjusted to be polyphonic. There are some differences naturally but they are not totally different things.

Eastern music is using more flat / sharps, dividing a tone (For example C to D) to nine slices. But it is not polyphonic. Everybody plays the same music. So one is developed horizontally (eastern) and the other developed vertically with many notes playing at the same time (western). Although potentially there are 3000 scales in eastern music, its proven it uses 4-5 scales in general. So they are equal in that area too we can say.

Its also not an argument of good / bad (or simple / complicated) music. The two have their own characteristics and joys. They are both capable and deep enough.

Eastern music is still taught by showing, learning from the master by ear, not much using scientific learning methods. But it also updated the theory and sheet music to match with the western, now became universal standards.

Western music is still to be learnt easier and more scientific.

To my observation, most complicated Eastern music is the music of India.

Its a matter of taste than competition.

 

[JerryPH]

Hmmm. Personal opinion... arabic, indian or a lot of the styles where there are a million accidentals added to the music is just offensive to my ears, and I end up REALLY not enjoying it.

 

[murathan]

 

[Chickers]

murathan
Thank you for the interesting observations, and description of Eastern vs Western forms of music.
I definitely have an attraction to some Eastern music, but I must confess I do not have an understanding of the format and / or
the complexity of Eastern music.
Please explain how the accordion ----appears to be a standard piano style---- fits into the Eastern style music, and how you manage to
fit such a Western style instrument into Eastern style music. You must be a real artist.
Thank you for your sharing.
CHICKERS

 

[breezybellows]

Hmmm. Personal opinion... arabic, indian or a lot of the styles where there are a million accidentals added to the music is just offensive to my ears, and I end up REALLY not enjoying it.

I grew up in India. There are several forms of Indian classical music (carnatic, hindustani etc). It is complex but personally I didn't find it pleasing to my ears.

 

[murathan]

murathan
Thank you for the interesting observations, and description of Eastern vs Western forms of music.
I definitely have an attraction to some Eastern music, but I must confess I do not have an understanding of the format and / or
the complexity of Eastern music.
Please explain how the accordion ----appears to be a standard piano style---- fits into the Eastern style music, and how you manage to
fit such a Western style instrument into Eastern style music. You must be a real artist.
Thank you for your sharing.
CHICKERS

Thanks. What we see is a sheet music with different sharp and flats. Sometimes they dont have any difference. That will make the same result. If there are different, we take them as normal (western) flat - sharps. Sometimes it needs to dismiss a flat - sharp, sometimes not. You try to make close to the original video or audio example. It will not be the exact same music but we can express it that way in a western instrument. Since its a one line lead music, chords are a matter of choice but that also have a theory I understood. Eastern music have some similar scales. We can also use that. One of them which is a good example, the Hijaz scale or some call that the Klezmer scale. D - Eb - F# - G - A - Bb - C# - D. It looks like D minor but with E flat and F sharp. And B flat and C sharp. B flat and C sharp already had in the D minor (Harmonic) scale. The E flat and F sharp had already in the G minor (Harmonic). So we can take it as a combination of D minor and G minor. It is D centered and the equivalent of classic I - IV - V is different as follows. D - Gm - Cm. The example is Hava Nagila. I also like to put an example of myself, A Turkish song in eastern style. In Hijaz again. It is E Hijaz so the chords are E - Am - Dm Title is "How my good years passed without notice":

 

[murathan]

I grew up in India. There are several forms of Indian classical music (carnatic, hindustani etc). It is complex but personally I didn't find it pleasing to my ears.

Carnatic is also great but I love Hindustani.

 

[Dingo40]

There's a saying: "Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so!"
Similarly, I believe all music, like most things, is an acquired taste.

 

[OuijaBoard]

An enchanting introduction to these concepts is the film "Lacho Drom." Its marvelous soundtrack is still obtainable on CD and DVD, and is a favorite for me. The film isn't literally a documentary, but is a series of marvellous staged sequences of dance, instrumental playing, and song, that show the journey of the Rom people and their music, from their origins in the Middle East, India/Pakistan, and westward, to Turkey, Balkans/Eastern Europe, Spain, Belgian/French Manouche music, etc. Along the way is a ravishing illustration of how the modal music of the Middle East and India/Pakistan came westward and morphed into the modal scales and Harmonic Minor scales that pre-dated conventional Classical Major/Minor tonality.

The film doesn't give much attention to Scandinavia and the British Isles, but this harmonic legacy is also strong in Scandi, Celtic, and the Scots/Irish Appalachian music as well, even while those genres also have plenty of straight Western Major-key/Diatonic tunes too.

There's a complete version on the 'tube, though the resolution and audio aren't great. There are individual segment excerpts with much better sound and resolution. It's a wonderful musical and cinematic voyage.

 

[murathan]

Western people have a tendency to love Gypsies although they beg for living, doing odd jobs and living in extreme poverty. Westerners think its a freedom of some kind I guess.

 

[Ignacchitti]

There are so many "Eastern" cultures and types of music, that maybe the term Eastern is a bit meaningless - they might have less in common with each other than either has with European music.
Obviously, as a player of shamisen and koto, my favorite non-European concepts are the Japanese "scales" - hirajoshi, kumoijoshi, etc. Simple, understated, melancholic and at the same time pleasant.

I do find them boring though if they do not include a lot of modulation - there is not much you can do with just 5 notes in an octave.

 

[murathan]

There are so many "Eastern" cultures and types of music, that maybe the term Eastern is a bit meaningless - they might have less in common with each other than either has with European music.
Obviously, as a player of shamisen and koto, my favorite non-European concepts are the Japanese "scales" - hirajoshi, kumoijoshi, etc. Simple, understated, melancholic and at the same time pleasant.

I do find them boring though if they do not include a lot of modulation - there is not much you can do with just 5 notes in an octave.

You will like this for sure

 

[OuijaBoard]

Is the classic 3-cd set "Planet Squeezebox" still in print? Those discs and the liner booklet did a wonderful job of showing how accordion fits into world traditions including those being grouped here as "Eastern."

Regarding accordion fitting into Eastern music--a form of accordion, the harmonium, is a serious traditional instrument in the music of India. And accordion has a very strong place in Eastern Europe folk/traditional music--accordion is huge in the Balkan traditions, Bulgaria, Macedonia, the 'stans, Serbia, as well as in klezmer, Romania, Rom/gypsy music. Not to mention Russia and Ukraine. Accordion is also strong in Middle-Eastern genres such as Egyptian baladi music--some of the Baladi masters even have their reeds cut in semitones to fit those modes.

Here is the amazing Farouk Mohamed Hassan--keywording his name brings up many wonderful clips:

 

[OuijaBoard]

And here is some awesome baladi accordion complete with dancing:

 

[murathan]

Yes they tune the reeds to semitones.

 

[murathan]

 

[OuijaBoard]

Western people have a tendency to love Gypsies although they beg for living, doing odd jobs and living in extreme poverty. Westerners think its a freedom of some kind I guess.

We've had enough stereotyping and outright toxicity from various quarters on this site about Gypsies. Let's not start on Westerners now. I would like to stick to the focus of the thread, which was music.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Thanks. What we see is a sheet music with different sharp and flats. Sometimes they dont have any difference. That will make the same result. If there are different, we take them as normal (western) flat - sharps. Sometimes it needs to dismiss a flat - sharp, sometimes not. You try to make close to the original video or audio example. It will not be the exact same music but we can express it that way in a western instrument. Since its a one line lead music, chords are a matter of choice but that also have a theory I understood. Eastern music have some similar scales. We can also use that. One of them which is a good example, the Hijaz scale or some call that the Klezmer scale. D - Eb - F# - G - A - Bb - C# - D. It looks like D minor but with E flat and F sharp. And B flat and C klezmorrsharp. B flat and C sharp already had in the D minor (Harmonic) scale. The E flat and F sharp had already in the G minor (Harmonic). So we can take it as a combination of D minor and G minor. It is D centered and the equivalent of classic I - IV - V is different as follows. D - Gm - Cm. The example is Hava Nagila. I also like to put an example of myself, A Turkish song in eastern style. In Hijaz again. It is E Hijaz so the chords are E - Am - Dm Title is "How my good years passed without notice":

There are actually three (some say four) klezmer scales or modes. In addition, Western major scales and the three Western minor nodes are also employed in klezmer music. But I have to go back to my sources and notes on those klezmer modes and their names, and that means some digging. I’ll fill in the blanks next week, unless Zevy beats me to it

 

[Vladimir M.]

Western Music vs Eastern Music​

sorry, as for me, I can only divide music into categories "good" vs "bad". Regardless of whether it is performed by an accordionist from the East or the West. Naturally, there can be a lot of subjective view in the division between "good" and "bad". By the way, while we're on the subject of simplified geography: Where does Brazilian Forró music belong? From a purely objective point of view, it is in the southern hemisphere. That we would next divide the world into northern vs southern music?

Best regards, Vladimir

 

[RTW]

BY Dingo40: There's a saying: "Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so!"
Similarly, I believe all music, like most things, is an acquired taste.

BY RTW: Just like a fine Scotch Whiskey, I would add