ironbiscuit
Newbie
I'm just starting to learn the 12 bass accordion. What keys are best to play in? Are there any minor keys that sound good by doing the trick where you fake minor chords?
What keys are best to play in for a 12 bass?
- Thread starter ironbiscuit
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Squeezebox Of Delights
Active member
Assuming that your 12 bass has the standard arrangement of Bb, F, C, G, D and A, and their corresponding major chords, then songs in F, C and G work best. Minor keys are hard to play on a 12 bass because there are no true minor chords on the left hand, but you can get around that by either faking minor chords, or by doing what I recommend which is to open the instrument up and use tape to block off the reeds that play the thirds in each chord. This creates a neutral chord that can stand in for both major and minor, and vastly increases the playability of a 12 bass instrument. I did it on my Hohner 12 bass after learning about removing thirds on melodeons, and I don't regret it! I'm not sure what chords you can get by faking, but if you tape off the thirds you can easily play tunes in D, G, C minor etc.. If you need any help I'd gladly offer my assistance!
ironbiscuit
Newbie
Do you have a video on how to do this? I'm nervous about opening the box up, but if there was a guide that walked you through it I could do it.
The 12 bass is best in major keys as noted above- it is designed as a basic instrument and can do just fine within those limitations- and then some depending on the player.
https://accordionchords.com/stradella-bass-layouts/12-bass-accordion-chart/ offers you a quick reference to those chords which it can readily offer.
The dominant 7th on a larger accordion routinely has the fifth omitted since just after Christopher Columbus sailed allowing creative chording ICW the RH notes. Omitting the fifth still leaves three notes sounding for the seventh and the brain seemingly automatically "adds the fifth" anyway as perceived. Taking the third (middle) out of the three notes in a major chord is far more noticeable- C and G just don't add up to C major. Depending on your RH proficiency you can tack on that missing E or Eb so the overall effect could be increased flexibility to make up for the missing third- but it may simply leave things pretty thin without a good RH technique.
In the end, a really experienced player can make the thing sing as is, (first and fifth notes and first and fourth are always adjacent on the top row albeit single reed and deep) and you can handily fake what's not there with the RH.
Just check out the sales demo pitches on You Tube for 12 bass accordions. In the right hands they sound pretty good. (I personally feature two left hands- apologies to the LH commnuity for the slight)
It's not the missing thirds, its the overwhelming effect of substantial familiarity with the instrument. In the end you can take out the thirds and add some flexibility- but most of that flexibility will really only be accessible to someone who has mongo practice under their belt. Remiscent of the oft quoted NYC directions on "How do I get to Carnegie Hall."
"Left on 57th or practice like h###"
You're unlikely to hurt anything and I surely wish you luck.
https://accordionchords.com/stradella-bass-layouts/12-bass-accordion-chart/ offers you a quick reference to those chords which it can readily offer.
The dominant 7th on a larger accordion routinely has the fifth omitted since just after Christopher Columbus sailed allowing creative chording ICW the RH notes. Omitting the fifth still leaves three notes sounding for the seventh and the brain seemingly automatically "adds the fifth" anyway as perceived. Taking the third (middle) out of the three notes in a major chord is far more noticeable- C and G just don't add up to C major. Depending on your RH proficiency you can tack on that missing E or Eb so the overall effect could be increased flexibility to make up for the missing third- but it may simply leave things pretty thin without a good RH technique.
In the end, a really experienced player can make the thing sing as is, (first and fifth notes and first and fourth are always adjacent on the top row albeit single reed and deep) and you can handily fake what's not there with the RH.
Just check out the sales demo pitches on You Tube for 12 bass accordions. In the right hands they sound pretty good. (I personally feature two left hands- apologies to the LH commnuity for the slight)
It's not the missing thirds, its the overwhelming effect of substantial familiarity with the instrument. In the end you can take out the thirds and add some flexibility- but most of that flexibility will really only be accessible to someone who has mongo practice under their belt. Remiscent of the oft quoted NYC directions on "How do I get to Carnegie Hall."
"Left on 57th or practice like h###"
You're unlikely to hurt anything and I surely wish you luck.
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Squeezebox Of Delights
Active member
I don't, but I can try and get one recorded today if you like. I'll go through the procedure, and demonstrate the difference between having thirds in and thirds out. That way you can decide if you want to do it or not.
Some time in the 1970s with Hohner I think (Morinos and Golas excepted). I know the U.S. is trying to dial back history but I think they are aiming for more than a century after Columbus sailed…
ironbiscuit
Newbie
That would be great, thanks!
Ventura
Been here for ages!
hello Biscuit,
pardon a question, but are you an accomplished musician on OTHER instruments ?
or is this accordion your introduction to playing music ?
pardon a question, but are you an accomplished musician on OTHER instruments ?
or is this accordion your introduction to playing music ?
Squeezebox Of Delights
Active member
Hello Iron Biscuit!
It took longer than I expected because I decided to do it properly, but I now have an instructional video on how to remove the thirds from a 12 bass accordion. Of course, all accordions are different in some way or other, but I think the method I describe should apply to most of them. I've tried to be as clear as possible, but I didn't write a script so there's a bit of rambling every now and again. Feel free to skip through to get to the useful bits!
It took longer than I expected because I decided to do it properly, but I now have an instructional video on how to remove the thirds from a 12 bass accordion. Of course, all accordions are different in some way or other, but I think the method I describe should apply to most of them. I've tried to be as clear as possible, but I didn't write a script so there's a bit of rambling every now and again. Feel free to skip through to get to the useful bits!
Rosie C
Well-known member
Fascinating! I'd assumed that, like a larger accordion, the chord buttons would be sharing reeds - so wondered how it was possible to disable the thirds.
Squeezebox Of Delights
Active member
Yes! I'm pretty sure that all 12 and 8 bass accordions have a melodeon-style mechanism where you have one pallet controlling three reeds for each chord, but anything bigger has the standard bass mechanism. You can remove the thirds from a larger accordion - I converted the 7th row on my 32 bass travel box to thirdless chords last year - but it involved a dremel and a tube of superglue, so not quite as reversible! It was definitely worth it though - even though you have the majors and minors on a 32 bass, it was the multi-button chords and the lightness of the thirdless chords that I was really after.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
and co-incidentally, just this morning a lovely and apparently
well preserved 2 reed 120 bass accordion just popped up here
on the forum, with intent to be sold.
and so we can now also, aside from talking about stupid pet tricks
with a 12 bass accordion, simply discuss what a 12 bass was built for and
intended to do, which is give an INTRODUCTION to accordion, and
then to be replaced after about 12 to 16 weeks with the next step
up in the program
which is the ACTUAL solution to the question:
how do i play a song with minor chords on a 12 bass ?
correct answer: step up to the next model
in which case one never has to learn unnatural moves or stop-gap chording
twister-ready finger crossovers, but simply to continue to learn
good playing habits and progress further along ones musical path with
a normal, nice sounding/playing student accordion with lots of keys and chords and
a natural ability to play in ALL keys without a bit of problem or distraction
just sayin'
while it is fun for an accomplished musician to get the most
out of and play hell out of anything they get their hands on, of course,
it may be a bit of a disservice to confuse new-students of accordion
or distract them from learning the correct techniques during their formative,
early time, with the instrument
does the silk purse parable possibly apply to getting too
crazy with the masking tape on a 12 bass ? or the more reeds /notes taped
off or removed on a 12 bass the better ?
well preserved 2 reed 120 bass accordion just popped up here
on the forum, with intent to be sold.
and so we can now also, aside from talking about stupid pet tricks
with a 12 bass accordion, simply discuss what a 12 bass was built for and
intended to do, which is give an INTRODUCTION to accordion, and
then to be replaced after about 12 to 16 weeks with the next step
up in the program
Identifying and Valuing an Inherited Accordion
Hello all, I am new here. I joined to help a friend who's dad passed away and left behind an accordion. She does not play and does not plan to begin so she wants to help her mom get a better idea of the market value and any other ideas for selling it. I have attached a couple photos to get the...
www.accordionists.info
which is the ACTUAL solution to the question:
how do i play a song with minor chords on a 12 bass ?
correct answer: step up to the next model
in which case one never has to learn unnatural moves or stop-gap chording
twister-ready finger crossovers, but simply to continue to learn
good playing habits and progress further along ones musical path with
a normal, nice sounding/playing student accordion with lots of keys and chords and
a natural ability to play in ALL keys without a bit of problem or distraction
just sayin'
while it is fun for an accomplished musician to get the most
out of and play hell out of anything they get their hands on, of course,
it may be a bit of a disservice to confuse new-students of accordion
or distract them from learning the correct techniques during their formative,
early time, with the instrument
does the silk purse parable possibly apply to getting too
crazy with the masking tape on a 12 bass ? or the more reeds /notes taped
off or removed on a 12 bass the better ?
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A word of warning about taking out the thirds - this can make your left sound very thin and weak.
I reckon a bayan-style arrangement with a 4-voice bass fundamental + two-three-voice 5th "chords" in 2-3 octaves will sound quite good, but if you're talking single-voice chords, they are bad enough with the thirds in. If you take the thirds out and leave single-voice 1+5, you might not like what you hear.
At some point I've had an expensive thirdless melodeon by a very well-known maker and the thidless bass was extremely weak & disappointing. I never got used to it.
I don't get this toy accordion fetish. If you want 'em small, get a melodeon or a bandoneon
I reckon a bayan-style arrangement with a 4-voice bass fundamental + two-three-voice 5th "chords" in 2-3 octaves will sound quite good, but if you're talking single-voice chords, they are bad enough with the thirds in. If you take the thirds out and leave single-voice 1+5, you might not like what you hear.
At some point I've had an expensive thirdless melodeon by a very well-known maker and the thidless bass was extremely weak & disappointing. I never got used to it.
I don't get this toy accordion fetish. If you want 'em small, get a melodeon or a bandoneon
So yeah, I have posted this before. The only 12 bass I have kept is this 8 bass hot rod with the extra set of reeds added to make the French Musette. Also set up for playing in flat keys. (I did not do the customization.)
