Tiered vs flat CBA

[stickista]

I’m about to receive (well, in ~6 mo) my first flat CBA instrument (flat vs tiered) and wondering if anyone has reason to prefer one over the other.

Snooopi Pro sans basses – Signature Alain Musichini – Accordéons pour enfants Snooopi, fabriqués en France par Thierry Bénétoux, artisan et technicien accordéoniste passionné par l'innovation musicale

www.accordeon-thierryb.fr

 

[Dingo40]

Interesting, no basses?

 

[stickista]

Interesting, no basses?

Yup.
I had my own questions when I originally saw one like this from (I think) Victoria. But I’ve come to embrace the idea.
1) my ‘spirit instrument’ is still accordina, but truthfully it doesn’t have the ‘gravitas’ or depth of tone I want, and I think the thin tone can wear on the ear after too many songs (unless you’re Toots.) I idiotically sold my CBA Vibrandoneon years back, and even endured a disastrous attempt to have Victoria recreate one for me.
2) If you look at almost any jazz ensemble (my genre) with piano, bass, and accordion, the accordionist’s left hand is almost always just doing bellows duty. Even with the greats like Marc Berthoumieux. LH is a touchy issue in an ensemble
3) The result is a nicely compact and light instrument with great tone.
4) You’d be surprised how harmonically full you can get with one hand. A lot of my repertoire is transcribed guitar, and it works really well.
5) If I want to take the piano chair fully, then I have my bandoneon for that.
6) There’s the annoying fact that I’ve developed a tremor in my LH that makes the stuff I like to do with it a bit ‘iffy.’
I do think that I’ll probably tend to orient myself with my right side to the audience to avoid the accusation that I can’t play LH.

Here’s a nice recording of the instrument…

 

[pentaprism]

Interesting, no basses?

My Victoria Montparnasse has a register to silence the bass.

 

[Dingo40]

There's a whole genre of Italian accordion music that doesn't use the left hand and, in addition, plays only on the draw!

 

[stickista]

My Victoria Montparnasse has a register to silent the bass.

However you still have to maneuver 5 lbs of reeds.
But I’ll admit that bassless is a decidedly niche and luxury solution. )

 

[stickista]

One interesting feature of it is that a nice big air release lever runs under the whole left hand, and I’m thinking that it will help in contributing to my ‘breathing articulation’, something that is a constant struggle for me. Lets my LH focus purely on breathing.

 

[Dingo40]

Stickista,
I think you may find your instrument was designed for the no bases, play only/mainly on the draw Italian school of accordion (northern Italy?), hence the extra large air valve.
There are some gifted exponents.

 

[CC_PDX]

I have mostly tiered boxes, but my most recent acquisition has a flat keyboard and I didn't find it appreciably that different, nor did it take any time to adjust. I have no preference between the two, but I think you will enjoy having a very light box either way. Congrats!

 

[debra]

I have mostly "stepped" keyboards (never heard the term "tiered") and one "flat" keyboard. I don't find them that different to play. Glissando is a bit more comfortable on the flat keyboard and the use of the thumb is a bit more comfortable on the stepped keyboard. It also seems like the flat keyboard has less key travel (depth) than the stepped keyboards, but that may just be on my accordion.
The thing that's more annoying for me is that my flat keyboard accordion is a Hohner, and Hohner marked (textured) A, C# and G# keys whereas most others mark C and F. When switching between accordions that required me to flip a switch in my brain...
Flat C system keyboards are also called Swiss system, and flat B system keyboards exist with 6 rows of buttons and are called Balkan system.
As for having no bass side, I have that on my bass accordion. It makes the accordion lighter but the very light lefthand side makes it harder to play bellows shake or ricochet.

 

[losthobos]

Funnily enough my Piermaria let's me switch the bass closed and I'd played a couple of hours like this last night..
Essential exercise and something I should do more often... amazing how much more control and nuance was added to the melodies..
Now to master combining the two hands.....
Jack Emblow always used to say master the right and and go as easy and sparse as the left will allow...which is a bit of a conundrum if you're playing new Orleans or boogie woogie

 

[Tom]

Stickista,
I think you may find your instrument was designed for the no bases, play only/mainly on the draw Italian school of accordion (northern Italy?), hence the extra large air valve.
There are some gifted exponents.

Dingo, you're thinking of the "Filuzzi" style from the Bologna area of Italy, where they play accordion without bass. NickC on here has one and plays this style.

 

[stickista]

I have mostly "stepped" keyboards (never heard the term "tiered") and one "flat" keyboard. I don't find them that different to play. Glissando is a bit more comfortable on the flat keyboard and the use of the thumb is a bit more comfortable on the stepped keyboard. It also seems like the flat keyboard has less key travel (depth) than the stepped keyboards, but that may just be on my accordion.
The thing that's more annoying for me is that my flat keyboard accordion is a Hohner, and Hohner marked (textured) A, C# and G# keys whereas most others mark C and F. When switching between accordions that required me to flip a switch in my brain...
Flat C system keyboards are also called Swiss system, and flat B system keyboards exist with 6 rows of buttons and are called Balkan system.
As for having no bass side, I have that on my bass accordion. It makes the accordion lighter but the very light lefthand side makes it harder to play bellows shake or ricochet.

Didn’t know the correct term, so had to come up with something.
But its interesting to hear that some use alternate markings. I thought I was weird for marking C, D, and G. I find that that gives me the most accurate triangulation for any note.
I’m hoping your impression of harder thumb use isn’t as true for me… I use a lot of thumb on accordina, and really miss it on my CBA bando, where its only available on 1st row.
Not as concerned about shakes and ricochet as they!re not a part of my technique… not really a jazz thing.

 

[stickista]

Funnily enough my Piermaria let's me switch the bass closed and I'd played a couple of hours like this last night..
Essential exercise and something I should do more often... amazing how much more control and nuance was added to the melodies..
Now to master combining the two hands.....
Jack Emblow always used to say master the right and and go as easy and sparse as the left will allow...which is a bit of a conundrum if you're playing new Orleans or boogie woogie

Truth be told, it really is a fundamental problem with accordion that LH volume tends to overwhelm the right if you don’t voice properly. One advantage to stereo mic-ing.
And excellent point about right-only allowing more nuance and expression. Kinda like a carriage pulled by 2 horses… you can’t control them separately, only both identically. You just made me feel more confident about my decision to get this instrument.

 

[stickista]

Actually, my 2 horses analogy is pretty accurate. You CAN control them separately, but it takes skill and practice.

 

[losthobos]

Truth be told, it really is a fundamental problem with accordion that LH volume tends to overwhelm the right if you don’t voice properly. One advantage to stereo mic-ing.
And excellent point about right-only allowing more nuance and expression. Kinda like a carriage pulled by 2 horses… you can’t control them separately, only both identically. You just made me feel more confident about my decision to get this instrument.

I'm mid decision about whether to clip out the fifths of my dominant chords so they just play the tritone 3 and b7 ( I have french stradella system) just to soften the blare of the left hand

 

[debra]

...
But its interesting to hear that some use alternate markings. I thought I was weird for marking C, D, and G. I find that that gives me the most accurate triangulation for any note.
...

Marking C and F is used the most. Even Hohner marks the C's on their MIII melody bass, while marking A, C# and G# on the treble side.
Some accordions come with no textured buttons at all. I cannot play on such accordions (very well) because I never look at the keyboard, and when you don't look and also cannot feel... you need very good muscle memory to stay on the right notes.
Of course, "reasonable" accordion manufacturers use screw-in buttons so you can move the textured buttons quite easily. Sadly Excelsior, who made the Hohner Morino/Artiste N and S series, used glued-on buttons, and Pigini does the same.

 

[stickista]

I'm mid decision about whether to clip out the fifths of my dominant chords so they just play the tritone b3 and b7 ( I have french stradella system) just to soften the blare of the left hand

While ‘clip’ sounds kinda scary, I’d have to think dropping the 5th would also maybe reduce/balance LH volume a bit as well?
OTOH, since 3,5,b7 is 3/4 of a diminished chord, isn't that how stradella folks get their diminished?

 

[stickista]

Marking C and F is used the most. Even Hohner marks the C's on their MIII melody bass, while marking A, C# and G# on the treble side.
Some accordions come with no textured buttons at all. I cannot play on such accordions (very well) because I never look at the keyboard, and when you don't look and also cannot feel... you need very good muscle memory to stay on the right notes.
Of course, "reasonable" accordion manufacturers use screw-in buttons so you can move the textured buttons quite easily. Sadly Excelsior, who made the Hohner Morino/Artiste N and S series, used glued-on buttons, and Pigini does the same.

That’s horrible! Glued on?
Whenever I get an instrument I also get enough extra unmarkeds to replace the Gs if I ever want to sell it. (The D can always just be switched with the F even with B/W.)

 

[debra]

That’s horrible! Glued on?
Whenever I get an instrument I also get enough extra unmarkeds to replace the Gs if I ever want to sell it. (The D can always just be switched with the F even with B/W.)

Absolutely glued on. Pigini even has a video showing accordion production and they show how they glue buttons on. It is such a bad idea that I really wonder why they do it. (The difference in weight seems negligible to me.)