CASSOTTO AND/OR/VS SORDINA - Help needed

[Pinu]

Dear The Accordionists Forum’s members,

I’m Giovanni Volpatti, an engineer with the (weird – at least according to my wife) hobby of making research about the instrument I love, by means of applying my engineering knowledge to the study of the accordion.

I have already finished and published some papers and give a presentation at the ASA (Acoustical Society of American). Here few links for who is interested.

Beyond the Bellows: A Critical Review of Free Reed Instrument Research, Gaps, and Future Innovations (American Journal of Arts and Human Science)
Materials in Accordion Construction: A Comprehensive Review of Traditional and Modern Approaches (Journal of Innovative Research)
Comparative study of higher modes of vibration in cantilever beams: Exact analytical analysis versus FEM analysis for accordion free reed acoustics (The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America)

I’m actually preparing a new paper treating, among others, the topic of “CASSOTTO AND/OR/VS SORDINA” (Sound chamber = Cassotto; Mute = Sordina).

I’m actually writing in this forum to ask your support in gathering experiences and feedback from all over the world. I prepared few questions that would help my research:

1-Cassotto: how many and which voices you normally have inside? 1 or 2 or 3? / L/16’ and/or M/8’ and/or H/4’?
2-Cassotto: in which material is made your cassotto? Has it any cover?
3-Cassotto: do you have double cassotto? (e.g. the Beltuna “sound amplifier”)
4-Cassotto: does your cassotto I having any special feature?
5-Cassotto: how are represented the voice in the cassotto in the registers? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. bigger bullets, parenthesis, …)

6-Sordina: do you have switchable sordina? If yes, how can you open/close it?
7-Sordina: is it applied to all treble voices? If not to which and why?
8-Sordina: in which material is made your sordina?
9-Sordina: how does it sound when the sordina is on (e.g. more quiet, metallic, mellower, …)
10-Sordina: how is represented the sordina? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. text, symbol, …)

11-Cassotto AND Sordina: is your accordion having both? how do you deal with the use of both technologies? (e.g. use both together, separated, effect given, …)

12-Cassotto OR Sordina: it is for you comparable to buy and accordion only with Cassotto and one with only Sordina? Would you get something like this? Why?

13-Cassotto VS Sordina: if you could alternatively select one of the 2, when would you use one and when the other?

What I suggest you is to copy-paste my question and embed you answers directly within it.

Thanks a lot in advance for your kind help.

 

[Pinu]

In order to help you guys, I’m posting here an example of an answer based on actually what I’m use to experience myself.

1-Cassotto: how many and which voices you normally have inside? 1 or 2 or 3? / L/16’ and/or M/8’ and/or H/4’? : In Italy, normally you have 1 or 2 voice in cassotto. In the case of 2+2, we normally have a L and M in the cassotto. In the case of 3+1, normally used in the folk here, we normally have a L in the cassotto. In the case of a 3+2 (for example, the Super Paolo model from Paolo Soprani), we normally have L and M of L and H.
2-Cassotto: in which material is made your cassotto? Has it any cover? : normally made of the same wood of the frame. Sometime I have seen metallic cover
3-Cassotto: do you have double cassotto? (e.g. the Beltuna “sound amplifier”) : No, I do not, but I have seen and tried it
4-Cassotto: does your cassotto I having any special feature? : No, it is a normal cassotto
5-Cassotto: how are represented the voice in the cassotto in the registers? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. bigger bullets, parenthesis, …) : Having a Victoria, cassotto is normally represented with bigger bullets in the register switch

6-Sordina: do you have switchable sordina? If yes, how can you open/close it? : In my region Sordina is very rarely used and mainly for special music. I do not have it
7-Sordina: is it applied to all treble voices? If not to which and why? : All what I have seen are applied to the entire treble side
8-Sordina: in which material is made your sordina? : All what I have seen are metallic
9-Sordina: how does it sound when the sordina is on (e.g. more quiet, metallic, mellower, …) : quieter sound, but I do not have much experience
10-Sordina: how is represented the sordina? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. text, symbol, …) : All what I have seen are written with text “Sordina”

11-Cassotto AND Sordina: is your accordion having both? how do you deal with the use of both technologies? (e.g. use both together, separated, effect given, …) : Mine is having only Cassotto. For what I play I do not need a Sordina

12-Cassotto OR Sordina: it is for you comparable to buy and accordion only with Cassotto and one with only Sordina? Would you get something like this? Why? : I would select just a Cassotto, eventually a double cassotto. I want only certain set of reeds to be “modified” by the cassotto. For what I know sordina would influence all of them.

13-Cassotto VS Sordina: if you could alternatively select one of the 2, when would you use one and when the other? : I would use Cassotto for mellower sound, suitable for instance in Jazz and Tangos. Sordina I would use for indoor or study eventually (but not sure)

 

[Ventura]

first of all, your study and questions of the Cassotto are good,
and there are people here who can answer them with finality

your questions about the Sordino are more a waste of time,
the device is not that significant, one closes the shutter when one
wants less volume. simple.. they sit under the grill and restrict
the air-flow for all reeds.. not intended to alter tone in any
meaningful way.. there is no strategy of use regarding tone/reeds

there were 3 main types, the oldest were thin wood,
modern times they are made of mylar or similar,
and Hohner had a type in their metalbau accordions
that was like a jalousie, and which does mellow the
sound, simply because those accordions are aluminum inside
and very bright, so ANYthing that quiets them down is helpful

 

[debra]

Here is my $0.02 worth...

1-Cassotto: how many and which voices you normally have inside? 1 or 2 or 3? / L/16’ and/or M/8’ and/or H/4’?
My accordions with cassotto have 2 voices in cassotto: L and M. This is the most common situation.
There are some accordions that have L and H in cassotto in order to leave 2 M's outside of cassotto. However, H in cassotto defeats the purpose of having an H voice to some extent. 2 voices in cassotto is called "double cassotto".
A "single cassotto" is when there is 1 voice in cassotto and that is always the L voice.
There are some rare accordions that have ALL voices in cassotto, typically divided over two cassotto chambers. But these are rare.

2-Cassotto: in which material is made your cassotto? Has it any cover?
The cassotto is metal on one side: the soundboard, and this is most often covered with leather with holes on which the reed blocks rest. The other side of the cassotto can be metal (aluminium) or wood. In all my accordions with cassotto it is metal.

3-Cassotto: do you have double cassotto? (e.g. the Beltuna “sound amplifier”)
As said in 1) "double cassotto" means that there are 2 voices in cassotto. Some accordions have an additional chamber attached to the end of the cassotto (and opened using a kind of register slider). This is what Belguna calls "amplisound".

4-Cassotto: does your cassotto I having any special feature?
The only special feature I know of is the "amplisound" which my accordion do not have.

5-Cassotto: how are represented the voice in the cassotto in the registers? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. bigger bullets, parenthesis, …)
On my accordions there are no special dots to indicate that the voices are in cassotto.

6-Sordina: do you have switchable sordina? If yes, how can you open/close it?
I have one accordion with a sordina (sometimes also called sordino). It ia a Hohner Atlantic IV (de luxe) and has the form of a "curtain".
Most other accordions with sordina have a wooden or aluminium "box" under the grille with rectangular holes that are opened or closed using a mechanism similar to register sliders.

7-Sordina: is it applied to all treble voices? If not to which and why?
A sordina works on all treble voices and that makes it effect on the sound (other than sound volume) different from that of a cassotto.

8-Sordina: in which material is made your sordina?
Mine is a synthetic curtain. Most accordions with cassotto use wood or aluminium.

9-Sordina: how does it sound when the sordina is on (e.g. more quiet, metallic, mellower, …)
Every sordina reduces the sound volume and muffles high frequencies more than low frequencies.

10-Sordina: how is represented the sordina? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. text, symbol, …)
On my Atlantic there is a black slider for the sordino. On some other accordions there is a know, sometimes two knobs, and on some accordions two register switches are used, called "open" and "closed".

11-Cassotto AND Sordina: is your accordion having both? how do you deal with the use of both technologies? (e.g. use both together, separated, effect given, …)
My accordions only have either a cassotto or a sordina or none.
I do have one accordion with cassotto on the treble side and a sordina on the bass side.

12-Cassotto OR Sordina: it is for you comparable to buy and accordion only with Cassotto and one with only Sordina? Would you get something like this? Why?
Cassotto and sordina are very different. A cassotto amplifies the base frequency of the notes and softens the higher harmonics, and works on only the voices in cassotto. A sordino reduces the volume and softens the higher frequencies and works on all the voices. On the Atlantic the sordina is normally always closed because the sharpness of the sound with the sordina open is unbearable.

13-Cassotto VS Sordina: if you could alternatively select one of the 2, when would you use one and when the other?
On an accordion that produces a nice timbre without sordina the sordina is useless. I know people who have removed the sordina from their accordion. When you use tremolo a lot, thus MM or MMM, the sound is more balanced when both (or all three) M reeds are outside the cassotto. (This is why there are accordions with L and H in cassotto, or just L in cassotto.) How well the M in cassotto and the M outside of cassotto blend together is an important factor in choosing which accordion to buy.

The discussion here focuses on the treble side, but on the bass side there are also sound-altering techniques:
1) The bass sordina reduces bass volume when closed (and reduces higher frequencies). It helps to balance the volume between bass and treble side, especially when using a single reed on the treble side.
2) The "Winkelbaß" adds a longer tube for the sound of the lowest reed bank and places that bank at a 90 degree angle. It amplifies the lowest bank for a deeper bass sound.
3) The "Umlenkstimmstock" does the same as the "Winkelbaß" but placed the reed bank at a 180 degree angle.

 

[Pinu]

first of all, your study and questions of the Cassotto are good,
and there are people here who can answer them with finality

your questions about the Sordino are more a waste of time,
the device is not that significant, one closes the shutter when one
wants less volume. simple.. they sit under the grill and restrict
the air-flow for all reeds.. not intended to alter tone in any
meaningful way.. there is no strategy of use regarding tone/reeds

there were 3 main types, the oldest were thin wood,
modern times they are made of mylar or similar,
and Hohner had a type in their metalbau accordions
that was like a jalousie, and which does mellow the
sound, simply because those accordions are aluminum inside
and very bright, so ANYthing that quiets them down is helpful

Thanks for the feedback. If I understand we'll, Cassotto it is clearly an added value. Sordina is arguable or anyway not s game-changer. Correct?

 

[Pinu]

Here is my $0.02 worth...

1-Cassotto: how many and which voices you normally have inside? 1 or 2 or 3? / L/16’ and/or M/8’ and/or H/4’?
My accordions with cassotto have 2 voices in cassotto: L and M. This is the most common situation.
There are some accordions that have L and H in cassotto in order to leave 2 M's outside of cassotto. However, H in cassotto defeats the purpose of having an H voice to some extent. 2 voices in cassotto is called "double cassotto".
A "single cassotto" is when there is 1 voice in cassotto and that is always the L voice.
There are some rare accordions that have ALL voices in cassotto, typically divided over two cassotto chambers. But these are rare.

2-Cassotto: in which material is made your cassotto? Has it any cover?
The cassotto is metal on one side: the soundboard, and this is most often covered with leather with holes on which the reed blocks rest. The other side of the cassotto can be metal (aluminium) or wood. In all my accordions with cassotto it is metal.

3-Cassotto: do you have double cassotto? (e.g. the Beltuna “sound amplifier”)
As said in 1) "double cassotto" means that there are 2 voices in cassotto. Some accordions have an additional chamber attached to the end of the cassotto (and opened using a kind of register slider). This is what Belguna calls "amplisound".

4-Cassotto: does your cassotto I having any special feature?
The only special feature I know of is the "amplisound" which my accordion do not have.

5-Cassotto: how are represented the voice in the cassotto in the registers? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. bigger bullets, parenthesis, …)
On my accordions there are no special dots to indicate that the voices are in cassotto.

6-Sordina: do you have switchable sordina? If yes, how can you open/close it?
I have one accordion with a sordina (sometimes also called sordino). It ia a Hohner Atlantic IV (de luxe) and has the form of a "curtain".
Most other accordions with sordina have a wooden or aluminium "box" under the grille with rectangular holes that are opened or closed using a mechanism similar to register sliders.

7-Sordina: is it applied to all treble voices? If not to which and why?
A sordina works on all treble voices and that makes it effect on the sound (other than sound volume) different from that of a cassotto.

8-Sordina: in which material is made your sordina?
Mine is a synthetic curtain. Most accordions with cassotto use wood or aluminium.

9-Sordina: how does it sound when the sordina is on (e.g. more quiet, metallic, mellower, …)
Every sordina reduces the sound volume and muffles high frequencies more than low frequencies.

10-Sordina: how is represented the sordina? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. text, symbol, …)
On my Atlantic there is a black slider for the sordino. On some other accordions there is a know, sometimes two knobs, and on some accordions two register switches are used, called "open" and "closed".

11-Cassotto AND Sordina: is your accordion having both? how do you deal with the use of both technologies? (e.g. use both together, separated, effect given, …)
My accordions only have either a cassotto or a sordina or none.
I do have one accordion with cassotto on the treble side and a sordina on the bass side.

12-Cassotto OR Sordina: it is for you comparable to buy and accordion only with Cassotto and one with only Sordina? Would you get something like this? Why?
Cassotto and sordina are very different. A cassotto amplifies the base frequency of the notes and softens the higher harmonics, and works on only the voices in cassotto. A sordino reduces the volume and softens the higher frequencies and works on all the voices. On the Atlantic the sordina is normally always closed because the sharpness of the sound with the sordina open is unbearable.

13-Cassotto VS Sordina: if you could alternatively select one of the 2, when would you use one and when the other?
On an accordion that produces a nice timbre without sordina the sordina is useless. I know people who have removed the sordina from their accordion. When you use tremolo a lot, thus MM or MMM, the sound is more balanced when both (or all three) M reeds are outside the cassotto. (This is why there are accordions with L and H in cassotto, or just L in cassotto.) How well the M in cassotto and the M outside of cassotto blend together is an important factor in choosing which accordion to buy.

The discussion here focuses on the treble side, but on the bass side there are also sound-altering techniques:
1) The bass sordina reduces bass volume when closed (and reduces higher frequencies). It helps to balance the volume between bass and treble side, especially when using a single reed on the treble side.
2) The "Winkelbaß" adds a longer tube for the sound of the lowest reed bank and places that bank at a 90 degree angle. It amplifies the lowest bank for a deeper bass sound.
3) The "Umlenkstimmstock" does the same as the "Winkelbaß" but placed the reed bank at a 180 degree angle.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer extensively to each single question. Very much appreciated.

I also appreciate the additional part on the sound modification techniques for the bass side.

 

[Pinu]

Any other feedback?

 

[PhiliGol]

Thanks for the feedback. If I understand we'll, Cassotto it is clearly an added value. Sordina is arguable or anyway not s game-changer. Correct?

Hi Pinu
As always in life: it depends (what you regard a game-changer).
An instrument I know is the Hohner Gola - by default it comes with both Cassotto and Sordina.
Its sound is perfect by default, playing the musette (M/M+) or Bassoon (L) with closed Sordina it's unbeatable (personal preference ad lib. - of course).

 

[debra]

Hi Pinu
As always in life: it depends (what you regard a game-changer).
An instrument I know is the Hohner Gola - by default it comes with both Cassotto and Sordina.
Its sound is perfect by default, playing the musette (M/M+) or Bassoon (L) with closed Sordina it's unbeatable (personal preference ad lib. - of course).

A friend of mine with a Gola has taken out the Sordina completely (but kept for potential future owners) as she doesn't like it at all. So indeed, it is a matter of personal preference. High-end Excelsior accordions also came with cassotto + sordinas. I have seen some of these sordinas being butchered in order to install a microphone system (and not have the mics blocked completely by the sordina.

 

[colinm]

Dear The Accordionists Forum’s members,

I’m Giovanni Volpatti, an engineer with the (weird – at least according to my wife) hobby of making research about the instrument I love, by means of applying my engineering knowledge to the study of the accordion.

I have already finished and published some papers and give a presentation at the ASA (Acoustical Society of American). Here few links for who is interested.

Beyond the Bellows: A Critical Review of Free Reed Instrument Research, Gaps, and Future Innovations (American Journal of Arts and Human Science)
Materials in Accordion Construction: A Comprehensive Review of Traditional and Modern Approaches (Journal of Innovative Research)
Comparative study of higher modes of vibration in cantilever beams: Exact analytical analysis versus FEM analysis for accordion free reed acoustics (The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America)

I’m actually preparing a new paper treating, among others, the topic of “CASSOTTO AND/OR/VS SORDINA” (Sound chamber = Cassotto; Mute = Sordina).

I’m actually writing in this forum to ask your support in gathering experiences and feedback from all over the world. I prepared few questions that would help my research:

1-Cassotto: how many and which voices you normally have inside? 1 or 2 or 3? / L/16’ and/or M/8’ and/or H/4’?
2-Cassotto: in which material is made your cassotto? Has it any cover?
3-Cassotto: do you have double cassotto? (e.g. the Beltuna “sound amplifier”)
4-Cassotto: does your cassotto I having any special feature?
5-Cassotto: how are represented the voice in the cassotto in the registers? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. bigger bullets, parenthesis, …)

6-Sordina: do you have switchable sordina? If yes, how can you open/close it?
7-Sordina: is it applied to all treble voices? If not to which and why?
8-Sordina: in which material is made your sordina?
9-Sordina: how does it sound when the sordina is on (e.g. more quiet, metallic, mellower, …)
10-Sordina: how is represented the sordina? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. text, symbol, …)

11-Cassotto AND Sordina: is your accordion having both? how do you deal with the use of both technologies? (e.g. use both together, separated, effect given, …)

12-Cassotto OR Sordina: it is for you comparable to buy and accordion only with Cassotto and one with only Sordina? Would you get something like this? Why?

13-Cassotto VS Sordina: if you could alternatively select one of the 2, when would you use one and when the other?

What I suggest you is to copy-paste my question and embed you answers directly within it.

Thanks a lot in advance for your kind help.

Pinu, I tend to agree with your wife, it is not about what it sounds like to the player, it is about what the audience hears

 

[JerryPH]

First off... YIKES, thtas a lot of questions some I never even thought about, so in those case I will just say for the moment "I don't know" and look in to it at a later time.

Second, I have 5 accordions with Cassotto. Exact configuration of each? Not sure will look in to that later. Also, 3 instruments of those 5 have a Sordina.

1-Cassotto: how many and which voices you normally have inside? 1 or 2 or 3? / L/16’ and/or M/8’ and/or H/4’?

different for each of the 5, not sure... will answer later.

2-Cassotto: in which material is made your cassotto? Has it any cover?

Wood, all no cover. Never looked inside the Beltuna, not sure of the configuration inside.

3-Cassotto: do you have double cassotto? (e.g. the Beltuna “sound amplifier”)

Yes, Beltuna Leader V with Amplisound

4-Cassotto: does your cassotto I having any special feature?

Besides the added smoothness of the sound and nicer sound quality, for me no other special features. Even the Beltuna Amplisound seems to work in the same way, to add more smoothness overall, reduce the high end sound a touch.

5-Cassotto: how are represented the voice in the cassotto in the registers? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. bigger bullets, parenthesis, …)

Nothing.

6-Sordina: do you have switchable sordina? If yes, how can you open/close it?

Yes, switches on the grills

7-Sordina: is it applied to all treble voices? If not to which and why?

Yes to all.

8-Sordina: in which material is made your sordina?

Hoher Gola and Imperator, metallic.
Beltuna, wood

9-Sordina: how does it sound when the sordina is on (e.g. more quiet, metallic, mellower, …)

In all cases, my accordions that have a Sordina are 5/5 accordions. With the Sordina I can make the master register sound like a 5 reed or 4 reed (it cuts down the sound of the piccolo reeds)

10-Sordina: how is represented the sordina? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. text, symbol, …)

Nothing special... switch is on or off, its always a specific separate lever on my accordions. I know that on the newer Morinos, they add 2 registers at the tope and bottom to change the Sordina status. I do not have any accordions with this feature.

11-Cassotto AND Sordina: is your accordion having both? how do you deal with the use of both technologies? (e.g. use both together, separated, effect given, …)

Yes, all 3 (Gola, Imperator and Leader V). Use is song dependant. If I want my 5 reed to sound all reeds but the picollo, I close the Sordina, same if I want to reduce some high end on mussette sounds. Basically it is to make the accordion sound the way I enjoy it the most on a particular song. Adds a lot of variety, almost like doubling the number of available sound combinations.

12-Cassotto OR Sordina: it is for you comparable to buy and accordion only with Cassotto and one with only Sordina? Would you get something like this? Why?

Cassotto ALL DAY LONG. There is nothing like that smoothness/sweetness, that quality of a Cassotto sound. That said, if the accordion has both, it is a big thumbs up for me.

13-Cassotto VS Sordina: if you could alternatively select one of the 2, when would you use one and when the other?

Cassotto, no option, its there all the time, love it.
Sordina, song dependant. Use it when I want it.

 

[JerryPH]

your questions about the Sordino are more a waste of time,
the device is not that significant, one closes the shutter when one
wants less volume. simple.. they sit under the grill and restrict
the air-flow for all reeds.. not intended to alter tone in any
meaningful way.. there is no strategy of use regarding tone/reeds

I need to make a video for you... in my cases, the Sordino makes a very clear difference... maybe because I have 5/5 accordions. Flip it closed and suddenly I sound like a 4/5!

 

[PhiliGol]

the Sordino makes a very clear difference... maybe because I have 5/5 accordions. Flip it closed and suddenly I sound like a 4/5!

It also makes a difference on a 4-voice accordion.

 

[JerryPH]

It also makes a difference on a 4-voice accordion.

For sure!

 

[Pinu]

Here is my $0.02 worth...

1-Cassotto: how many and which voices you normally have inside? 1 or 2 or 3? / L/16’ and/or M/8’ and/or H/4’?
My accordions with cassotto have 2 voices in cassotto: L and M. This is the most common situation.
There are some accordions that have L and H in cassotto in order to leave 2 M's outside of cassotto. However, H in cassotto defeats the purpose of having an H voice to some extent. 2 voices in cassotto is called "double cassotto".
A "single cassotto" is when there is 1 voice in cassotto and that is always the L voice.
There are some rare accordions that have ALL voices in cassotto, typically divided over two cassotto chambers. But these are rare.

2-Cassotto: in which material is made your cassotto? Has it any cover?
The cassotto is metal on one side: the soundboard, and this is most often covered with leather with holes on which the reed blocks rest. The other side of the cassotto can be metal (aluminium) or wood. In all my accordions with cassotto it is metal.

3-Cassotto: do you have double cassotto? (e.g. the Beltuna “sound amplifier”)
As said in 1) "double cassotto" means that there are 2 voices in cassotto. Some accordions have an additional chamber attached to the end of the cassotto (and opened using a kind of register slider). This is what Belguna calls "amplisound".

4-Cassotto: does your cassotto I having any special feature?
The only special feature I know of is the "amplisound" which my accordion do not have.

5-Cassotto: how are represented the voice in the cassotto in the registers? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. bigger bullets, parenthesis, …)
On my accordions there are no special dots to indicate that the voices are in cassotto.

6-Sordina: do you have switchable sordina? If yes, how can you open/close it?
I have one accordion with a sordina (sometimes also called sordino). It ia a Hohner Atlantic IV (de luxe) and has the form of a "curtain".
Most other accordions with sordina have a wooden or aluminium "box" under the grille with rectangular holes that are opened or closed using a mechanism similar to register sliders.

7-Sordina: is it applied to all treble voices? If not to which and why?
A sordina works on all treble voices and that makes it effect on the sound (other than sound volume) different from that of a cassotto.

8-Sordina: in which material is made your sordina?
Mine is a synthetic curtain. Most accordions with cassotto use wood or aluminium.

9-Sordina: how does it sound when the sordina is on (e.g. more quiet, metallic, mellower, …)
Every sordina reduces the sound volume and muffles high frequencies more than low frequencies.

10-Sordina: how is represented the sordina? Anything special or just nothing? (e.g. text, symbol, …)
On my Atlantic there is a black slider for the sordino. On some other accordions there is a know, sometimes two knobs, and on some accordions two register switches are used, called "open" and "closed".

11-Cassotto AND Sordina: is your accordion having both? how do you deal with the use of both technologies? (e.g. use both together, separated, effect given, …)
My accordions only have either a cassotto or a sordina or none.
I do have one accordion with cassotto on the treble side and a sordina on the bass side.

12-Cassotto OR Sordina: it is for you comparable to buy and accordion only with Cassotto and one with only Sordina? Would you get something like this? Why?
Cassotto and sordina are very different. A cassotto amplifies the base frequency of the notes and softens the higher harmonics, and works on only the voices in cassotto. A sordino reduces the volume and softens the higher frequencies and works on all the voices. On the Atlantic the sordina is normally always closed because the sharpness of the sound with the sordina open is unbearable.

13-Cassotto VS Sordina: if you could alternatively select one of the 2, when would you use one and when the other?
On an accordion that produces a nice timbre without sordina the sordina is useless. I know people who have removed the sordina from their accordion. When you use tremolo a lot, thus MM or MMM, the sound is more balanced when both (or all three) M reeds are outside the cassotto. (This is why there are accordions with L and H in cassotto, or just L in cassotto.) How well the M in cassotto and the M outside of cassotto blend together is an important factor in choosing which accordion to buy.

The discussion here focuses on the treble side, but on the bass side there are also sound-altering techniques:
1) The bass sordina reduces bass volume when closed (and reduces higher frequencies). It helps to balance the volume between bass and treble side, especially when using a single reed on the treble side.
2) The "Winkelbaß" adds a longer tube for the sound of the lowest reed bank and places that bank at a 90 degree angle. It amplifies the lowest bank for a deeper bass sound.
3) The "Umlenkstimmstock" does the same as the "Winkelbaß" but placed the reed bank at a 180 degree angle.

Thanks a lot. Extremely clear

 

[Pinu]

first of all, your study and questions of the Cassotto are good,
and there are people here who can answer them with finality

your questions about the Sordino are more a waste of time,
the device is not that significant, one closes the shutter when one
wants less volume. simple.. they sit under the grill and restrict
the air-flow for all reeds.. not intended to alter tone in any
meaningful way.. there is no strategy of use regarding tone/reeds

there were 3 main types, the oldest were thin wood,
modern times they are made of mylar or similar,
and Hohner had a type in their metalbau accordions
that was like a jalousie, and which does mellow the
sound, simply because those accordions are aluminum inside
and very bright, so ANYthing that quiets them down is helpful

Thanks a lot. I see your point on sorfina, but, as you can see here, not all people share this vision. I am happy to experience such broad spectrum of answers

 

[Pinu]

First off... YIKES, thtas a lot of questions some I never even thought about, so in those case I will just say for the moment "I don't know" and look in to it at a later time.

Second, I have 5 accordions with Cassotto. Exact configuration of each? Not sure will look in to that later. Also, 3 instruments of those 5 have a Sordina.

different for each of the 5, not sure... will answer later.


Wood, all no cover. Never looked inside the Beltuna, not sure of the configuration inside.


Yes, Beltuna Leader V with Amplisound


Besides the added smoothness of the sound and nicer sound quality, for me no other special features. Even the Beltuna Amplisound seems to work in the same way, to add more smoothness overall, reduce the high end sound a touch.


Nothing.

Yes, switches on the grills

Yes to all.

Hoher Gola and Imperator, metallic.
Beltuna, wood

In all cases, my accordions that have a Sordina are 5/5 accordions. With the Sordina I can make the master register sound like a 5 reed or 4 reed (it cuts down the sound of the piccolo reeds)


Nothing special... switch is on or off, its always a specific separate lever on my accordions. I know that on the newer Morinos, they add 2 registers at the tope and bottom to change the Sordina status. I do not have any accordions with this feature.


Yes, all 3 (Gola, Imperator and Leader V). Use is song dependant. If I want my 5 reed to sound all reeds but the picollo, I close the Sordina, same if I want to reduce some high end on mussette sounds. Basically it is to make the accordion sound the way I enjoy it the most on a particular song. Adds a lot of variety, almost like doubling the number of available sound combinations.


Cassotto ALL DAY LONG. There is nothing like that smoothness/sweetness, that quality of a Cassotto sound. That said, if the accordion has both, it is a big thumbs up for me.


Cassotto, no option, its there all the time, love it.
Sordina, song dependant. Use it when I want it.

Very interesting. Happy to have triggered curiosity due to never-asked questions.