• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks (Click the "X" to the top right of this message to disable it)

Korg FISA SUPREMA

CPez said:
"Somebody" lol. Yes, a Random Accordion Player. And I've Never ben Drunk and Never Touched Drugs Thank You very much. :cool: (y) Again, you are Projecting Text Communication to Actual Conversation - CALL ME.

At least this situation highlighted something for me I never knew - Being a Virtue Signaling Whistleblower against your family and friends is Not some Victimhood Driven Narcissistic Problem of Gen Z. It's a problem of All Ages. All people who had Nothing to lose by going public, Still didn't do it. For the 10th time - Everything is being addressed & No One is going to lose money. But Keep getting angry and acting as if you know more than anyone and are the moral arbiters of all situations.

And glad also that you are all Confirming WHY No One should be talking about the problem - Because you are all making assumptions about what's going on that are Not true. WAIT for the Official Statement. (Right down to "Cory is Brutal with the accordion". Have you guys EVER seen me play live vs. Dick Contino or Tony Lovello? Or even Bruce Gassman or All Classical Players of Europe? Clearly not. Why do I even argue in here. I came On this board to give you guys Insight that No One else was going to have, and since my First post, ALL I've gotten is attacked and now Threatened).
Click to expand...
Cory - You're a passionate guy and the best accordionist I've ever heard. I'm 56 years old and Italian. My father was born in Italy and I grew up in an all-Italian farming community with about 100 accordionists. The instrument is important to me, even if it's fallen off with the masses over the years. The digital accordion is even more important to me, because I really like the technology and am electronically savvy enough to enjoy tinkering with all the permutations that are available.

You're on a forum where we communicate via written words. Coming on here and proclaiming that we should all call you isn't what this forum is about. We're from all over the world and on this particular forum we communicate by text. I agree that a lot can be lost in translation with words. Things can be misconstrued and taken completely opposite of how the original comment was portrayed.

Korg doesn't tell any of us anything about what's going on with their instrument. Neither did Roland, however. What we get is a few YouTube videos and specific comments from early adopters that are kind enough to post their thoughts on this one thread on one forum that specializes in digital accordions. If somebody has a problem it's nice to hear about it. It's not witch-hunting and trying to kill off the product. It's healthy discussion about issues both good and bad about the brand new product.

If you do a search on the FR-8X on this forum you'll find all kinds of problems people have run into. Tons of them, a few by me. They are all helpful. Workarounds are suggested and all in all it just makes for a better product and better user-experience.

I have 30 years in sales in High Tech. I would be destroyed by my customers with a public exchange like the above. I hope you can understand this. I think you're coming from a good place, but your approach is aggressive and counter to open discussion.

In my opinion, a brand ambassador should listen to the questions asked and provide input. If two or three users posted in here that the front fell off their new accordion I'd want to hear about it. It would be great for the Korg ambassador to hop onto this thread and simply state "Hey, folks, we had a batch go out with screws that were too short on the connection between the bellows and front end. We are aware of this and are actively replacing all of the affected units and apologize for this error. Be aware that all new units shipped out are not affected by this." Fine, no problem. Things happen. I'm good with that.

You're gonna tell me that if I wait another week Korg is going to do just that. And that's fine too.

But this has turned into a bit of a mess. Not insurmountable, of course. Time marches on.
 
On an earlier comment someone mentioned "cars have recalls, but accordions don't".

I have an interesting anecdote. Remember the Hohner Morino VI N 185 bass miii model? It was made by Excelsior. They used a new glue on the pads (both keyboard and treble side). The glue seeped through the pads and made the pallets to stick to the accordion's body. Home never issued a recall. This klebemorinos (sticky Morino) are still out there. More than 60 years after it was made, a dealer scammed me. I paid $3k along with trades of a compact beltuna, an excelsior (art van damme model) and a brandoni. The dealer lied to me. Then blamed me for not sitting the accordion properly. I didn't want to pass it on to another unsuspecting customer. I sold it back to the dealer for $1k.

I'm glad that Korg is taking all the units back. I've been assured that the right thing will be done.
 
Last edited:
breezybellows said:
On an earlier comment someone mentioned "cars have recalls, but accordions don't".

I have an interesting anecdote. Remember the Hohner Morino VI N 185 bass miii model? ...
Click to expand...
The "Klebemorino" was probably the worst situation that really warranted a recall, which never happened. It should be said that several other accordion manufacturers (in Italy) were using the same supplier and also made accordions with this problem. So Hohner/Excelsior are not the only ones to blame. I saw a "KlebeBugari" with the identical problem. All accordions made in the same three month period suffered from this problem. It just happens that due to the popularity of the Hohner Morino the problem became known mostly about the Morino.
But we can draw an important lesson from this: when a manufacturing defect happens, you should 1) be open and announce it publicly, 2) develop a real fix for the problem (replacing all the pallet felt+leather in this case, not apply talcum powder to the leathers) and 3) issue a recall to have dealers and repairers perform the repair, paid by the manufacturer. This should be a lesson for Korg, so they should start with step 1) after the first broken units were mentioned to them.
The lessons from the Klebemorino have already penetrated the accordion manufacturers community to some extent. There is a similar problem to the Klebemorino, a problem with pallet felt+leather from some time in 2014 if I'm not mistaken. But this problem only becomes noticeable after 7 to 8 years, sometimes even longer. I know of at last one manufacturer who has acknowledged the problem and I some dealer(s) even received replacement pallets to rectify the problem even though it is way way past any warranty period.
So really, there is no reason for anyone to be very upset, to start name-calling or anything. What needs to happen is for Korg to be open about the problem with the Fisa, develop a fix for the know problems, make it publicly known when a fix is available and then distribute replacement units.
It's really as simple as that.
 
the focus should be on
'is it fixable without a re-design re-engineering of the body"

if the margin area the screws go into cannot be changed
(no room for re-positioning)
if the thickness and strength of the body cannot be changed
there is no retrofit possible

then

there are only 2 possible fixes..
you glue the damn thing together for people who already
bought one

you re-design the weak body, and re-call every single one already built
and junk it

y'all think Korg is between a rock and a hard place ?

second interesting item, over time there has been one particular
member of the www.accordionists.info community who has
defended/spoken up for C-Pez more often than any other member

and that has been Jerry... go back and look... the archives don't lie...

so at the very least, the overreaction was a clear case or shooting
oneself in the foot

i can't begin to tell you all how glad i am to absolutely positively NOT
be in the market for or even more than marginally interested in
a new accordion period... much less another Digital from this bunch..

nor could i care less if someone can play rings around me at a million notes
per second.. i know what i can do and i know what i like and i have
my arsenal and my motto will stay "catch me if you can !"
 
breezybellows said:
To an extent, I agree with what you say. But a lot of what is being said bizarre.

The FISA was made in limited quantities. There are different levels of dishonesty. What would be outright dishonest is to sell a faulty unit after being made aware that the unit is going to fall apart. From what I know, Korg didn't do this. From my understanding there is a "stop sale" that was not announced publicly.


I also understand why Korg might want to contain this. Only about 20 units were sold. Something went wrong. Let's debug, fix this and avoid all drama.

But there's are some very valid reasons why proactively broadcasting this problem might have worked out better.

1) Something went wrong. Everyone messes up some way. New customer confidence will take a hit until more units are sold. People are going to sit back and wait for a longer time. Korg is a large company. They can afford this. A potential customer will be very right to guess that something else like this might happen again. It's not right to deprive the customer of that information.

2) Now people have the opportunity of accusing Korg of something that is more serious. I've messed up on high profile projects (with reporting errors on billion dollar projects). Full disclosure is always the right way to go. Face the embarrassment and then it's over. "He messed up" is always better than "he messed up, tried to cover up and it got out". But we've gone even further this time. "He messed up, tried to cover it up, failed, blames the customer and is having colorful conversations with potential customers".


My guess is that some part supplied by an external supplier messed up this batch. Mine was one of the earlier ones that broke. I didn't post publicly because I didn't feel like doing it. If someone were to call me names after I did post publicly, I won't be doing business with them again.
Click to expand...
I held off commenting until now. At age 85 and no longer even playing on anything like a regular basis, it’s highly unlikely that I’ll be buying any accordion, digital or otherwise. That doesn’t mean that I’m no longer a fan of digital accordions or that I’ve stopped believing that the concept of digital accordions has merit and should continue to be advanced.

But you happened to touch on a problem that seems to affect all kinds of organizations— that being transparency. It’s common to small businesses, large corporations, in-betweens — even government agencies and not-for-profits that supply services rather than products.

What’s the harm with a public statement along the lines of, “We goofed and we’re sorry. We’re working very hard to fix the problem for our current and future consumers. Please bear with us. We’ll issue progress reports and an announcement when the problem is resolved.”
 
Guys, I've been in contact with Korg (no name dropping at this time, but they are at the very top of the Fisa team chain). 100% assurance to me, someone that doesn't even OWN a Fisa was given, that...
- it is an acknowledged issue being taken VERY seriously
- they are handling EACH instance of any known Fisas that have this issue, even to the point of extending warranty to the arrival date of the replacement unit. NO info was shared on if that replacement was your same unit sent back and fixed or a compeltely new unit sent. That said, Linda Herman has publically mentioned hers is going to be a completely new/different Fisa.
- they are using not just internal resources but external 3rd party resources along with the internal Korg teams, to assist, pin-point, discuss what to address and HOW to deal with it with the goal to address and resolve the issue properly and as fast as possible.
- Korg has been made aware of this thread and will discuss things with the appropriate people so that this should (hopefully) never happen again.

I am also reaching out to one of the main suppliers (name witheld until they feel they want to post here or not). I am looking for a post that discusses their commitment and if they want to share anything over and above what Korg told me and how they are dealing with this situation. We need the frustration buck to stop and the parties with the challenges to feel 100% confident that they will be treated right.

I will, in the spirit of openess, say that I was told a LITTLE more by Korg, but asked to not share for now becuase things are in flux and of course they do not want to set any expectations that they cannot meet or exceed... but that they will release more info when they are ready which will be relatively soon. I am also hoping that they may even post here when the time is right.

I'm not even a Fisa owner, but I was treated with such respect, openess and honesty... and a dozen sincere apologies that were completely unwarranted, that I am more confident than ever, that they are dealing with this as fast and effectively as any good company would do so. THAT is the way every customer, potential customer or even mildly interested human being should be spoken to. ;)

Heck of a thing for me to say, huh? :D :D

If you are on the cusp of ordering a FISA, I'd go so far as to say that you can place your order and if something happened, know that you would be taken care of more than fairly, HOWEVER, if you have any lingering doubts, there is NOTHING wrong with waiting until you are comfortable, and just place your order at that later time.

If you are a Fisa owner and have had this happen, sure post it here, but FIRST, reach out to Korg, give them a chance to put that smile back on your face... and then come back here and share your experiences.

More to come soon. :)
 
Last edited:
Alan Sharkis said:
What’s the harm with a public statement along the lines of, “We goofed and we’re sorry. We’re working very hard to fix the problem for our current and future consumers. Please bear with us. We’ll issue progress reports and an announcement when the problem is resolved.”
Click to expand...
The harm? Fear. Fear of loosing business, fear of not being seen as perfect, fear of dropping a few bucks. When companies place the dollar too far above honesty and service, have you seen that for the most part, those are the companies that never last long? **coughevocough*

Sure EVERY company wants to make money, thats the main reason for their existance, they're not there for your and my exclusive pleasures... BUT for those companies that listen and act on customer needs, that really follow through, not only do they make their profits, they gain trust and that leads to brand loyalty and followers and that leads to increased profits.

The main issue is, this actually takes a little more work to get done than what many companies want to do, they want the fast in and out to the bank and could care less if the client is actually happy after they've received your cheque.

To bring it back on topic, I *feel* that the Fisa team at Korg are straight up good people with good intent and abilities to address things right, but what I feel is not that important... actions speak louder than words, watch and see what happens. ;) :)
 
Thomas N said:
Encouraging. Thanks for following up with us all Jerry.
You should be a sponsored brand ambassador for Korg! ;)
Click to expand...
In a very real way, I'd be honored (but sincerely have no expectations)! After I retire, I will have a few hours here and there... LOL
 
I don't know where all the Fisa parts come from or where they ship from.
Any idea if these "tariff wars" will raise the Fisa price?
 
JerryPH said:
The harm? Fear. Fear of loosing business, fear of not being seen as perfect, fear of dropping a few bucks. When companies place the dollar too far above honesty and service, have you seen that for the most part, those are the companies that never last long? **coughevocough*

Sure EVERY company wants to make money, thats the main reason for their existance, they're not there for your and my exclusive pleasures... BUT for those companies that listen and act on customer needs, that really follow through, not only do they make their profits, they gain trust and that leads to brand loyalty and followers and that leads to increased profits.

The main issue is, this actually takes a little more work to get done than what many companies want to do, they want the fast in and out to the bank and could care less if the client is actually happy after they've received your cheque.

To bring it back on topic, I *feel* that the Fisa team at Korg are straight up good people with good intent and abilities to address things right, but what I feel is not that important... actions speak louder than words, watch and see what happens. ;) :)
Click to expand...
I get it. You can stop coughing, but it's contagious (coughproximacough):)

1. Losing business is something that happens when word gets out that a business is far from forthcoming.
2. Perfection is a goal, seldom a reality.
3. Business, to some extent is a gamble. If it's done right, losing a few bucks here and there is more than made up for in profits.

I think that your reporting of a conversation with Korg is that they're not hiding anything; that they really want to fix the problem for all consumers, present and future, and they're working hard on discovering the cause of the problem and how to fix it. We'll see.

I haven't given up on the future of digital accordions, and right now, AFAIK, Korg is the only company working toward that future.
 
I have watched the problems arise when the Korg PA5x came out. It took me a year to purchase one. They announced the new firmware 1.4 at NAMM. We are still waiting for the release. It is going to be a great release, but they may take months of testing. I have no problems now with the PA5x as they fixed the bugs with 1.3. Now it is going to be greater machine with those new features. The sounds are amazing and hoped they included them in the FISA.
 
JerryPH said:
Guys, I've been in contact with Korg (no name dropping at this time, but they are at the very top of the Fisa team chain). 100% assurance to me, someone that doesn't even OWN a Fisa was given, that...
...
Click to expand...
Many thanks for all your effort and the reassurance by Korg that they are taking the issues very seriously and are working on them.
I have no doubt the problems will be ironed out and after that people can safely buy a fixed product (and existing owners get new ones as well).
Glad it will be resolved. Just sad that it caused a lot of commotion just because there are differences of opinion on what should be made public and what not.
 
knobby said:
Gentlemen,
Some of the recent post in this thread are becoming a little unpleasant. I have no idea who Linda or Luigi are, or what they may or may not have done, and don't really care. However I ask you to keep the discussions in this thread civil - manners cost nothing!
Click to expand...
Hear, hear!👏🙂
 
Guys, the issue of plastic accordion bodies not being up to the strains of daily life is hardly new, see here:
P

Thread 'Problem with new Roland FR1x'


I bought a Roland FR1x in June this year, and loved it right away, (especially the musette sound.) But in August, the left hand strap suddenly gave way inside the instrument. Fortunately the dealer, Roxys in Batavia NY, US, was understanding and sent me a new instrument to replace it.
Now I was happy again. But less than three months later the exact same thing happened.I looked inside the bass side case cover, and found that the strap was secured to a piece of metal with four screws which went on into plastic beneath the metal. The whole piece with metal, plastic , screws and all...
All this means is a bit more R&D will be required 🙂
Somewhat reminiscent of what recently happened in a well known war-room!😄
 
Dingo40 said:
Guys, the issue of plastic accordion bodies not being up to the strains of daily life is hardly new, see here:
...
Click to expand...
Another well-known flaw is that of the Pigini Peter Pan. The top bracket for the shoulder straps is secured to the plastic body which lacks the strength to hold the (light)weight of the accordion. People who tend to lift the accordion by the straps have had the case break where the bracket is. Anyone who buys a Peter Pan should place a larger metal (aluminium or steel) plate on the inside, with two holes the bracket goes through (to then secure with nuts on the inside). That spreads the load over a larger surface.
So year, design flaws are common. And sadly being secretive about the flaws is also common, for no good reason.
 
Dingo40 said:
Guys, the issue of plastic accordion bodies not being up to the strains of daily life is hardly new, see here:
P

Thread 'Problem with new Roland FR1x'


I bought a Roland FR1x in June this year, and loved it right away, (especially the musette sound.) But in August, the left hand strap suddenly gave way inside the instrument. Fortunately the dealer, Roxys in Batavia NY, US, was understanding and sent me a new instrument to replace it.
Now I was happy again. But less than three months later the exact same thing happened.I looked inside the bass side case cover, and found that the strap was secured to a piece of metal with four screws which went on into plastic beneath the metal. The whole piece with metal, plastic , screws and all...
All this means is a bit more R&D will be required 🙂
Somewhat reminiscent of what recently happened in a well known war-room!😄
Click to expand...
The early Fr7 strap brackets were terrible. They broke for me. Had a jeweler braze it to give it more strength. And no through bolt to hold them in too. Just screws, Screwed into plastic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
    • Like
Extended test drive - Korg Fisa Suprema
2 3
Replies
41
Views
781
breezybellows
B
B
    • Like
Korg Fisa Suprema - First Thoughts
Replies
3
Views
315
John M
J
B
    • Like
    • Love It!
Test drive on my Korg Fisa Suprema
2
Replies
30
Views
725
JerryPH
JerryPH
kep
    • Like
Korg FISA Suprema C
2
Replies
24
Views
874
debra
debra
C
Roland Fr-8x vs Korg Fisa
Replies
6
Views
459
JerryPH
JerryPH
Back
Top