Bugari-Evo user instruction
- Thread starter John K
- Start date
Just wanted to make sure you have the right information before making such an expensive purchase so that you can choose what’s right for you - sorry I didn’t see the later post of yours regarding this until now
In my experience the bellows feels the same on the 8X and EVO.
@JerryPH Do you keep Dynamic Bellows Behaviour to "STATUS" parameter set to "On" or "Off"? When it's "On" still feels the same? Have you played with these settings? https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1124897/Roland-Fr-8x.html?page=100
Another question that came to my mind is that keys are harder to press when you pull or push bellows harder on any of these accordions. Also, thinking about a bellows settings if there is a setting to set how much resistance gives every key. Might be useful if using standard bases playing chords would give more resistance than bases (of one note).
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From my website:
Challenge: To get the bellows to give adequate volume without me needing to pull like a fool, and also give me the right level of preferred resistance
Solution: In the FR-8X MENU 14.1 set:
– Status: ON
– Resistance: +20
– Min Bel: 0 (zero)
– Bellows Curve: X-LIGHT
These might change later, but for now this is what I chose as initially being the most comfortable.
Neither the 8X or Evo controls key weight based on the key. The weights are the weights... for the Evo, it has a nicer keyboard, more closely the feel of a real acoustic accordion and fairly fast. It is my favorite feature of the EVO. It does however lack velocity keys, which the 8X has a much deeper feel but that is needed for this feature... the ability to raise or lower the volume based on how hard we hit the keys AND we can use a hard press as a switch... like changing vibrato speed or other settings (something that I use a lot with percussion instruments and that ability to speed up or slow down vibrato of an organ via pressing harder is very useful, I use it more than I thought I would to add variation and flavor to my music.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
you can't be serious.. you said no velocity so impossible to play a Piano or Vibes
or a guitar sound except at one set volume/timbre on the keypress?
no-one in their right mind would ever buy an EVO then.. that would mean it is
a keyboard from the dark ages of Organ Accordions if the only expression
method available were bellows
this is the first i have ever heard of this
or a guitar sound except at one set volume/timbre on the keypress?
no-one in their right mind would ever buy an EVO then.. that would mean it is
a keyboard from the dark ages of Organ Accordions if the only expression
method available were bellows
this is the first i have ever heard of this
Thanks for replies. So deeper feel of keys means that keys has higher depth in milimeters than Evo? What looks quite important to me while looking to X8 is that Dynamic Bellows Behaviour feature doesn't have an option to set resistance based on the notes played. 8X should feel much more natural with this feature than Evo but the technology still doesn't seem to be so advanced to be able to set less bellows resistance while playing the lower notes which is quite sad but also I guess there's a hope this feature will come up with software update as I don't see much trouble adding such settings if the accordion itself is able change resistance based on amount of notes and selected registers. Would be good to know if it's possible to set notes amount per key and then mute some notes by leaving only one sounding and resistance would be based on that notes amount even though the only one note would sound, this would be a useful workaround for this issue, although not perfect as resistance settings per key wouldn't be fractional.
Another thing would be good to know if it's possible to change volume of notes independently so I could just pull harder on some notes by creating more resistance in order to reach appropriate volume.
Another thing would be good to know if it's possible to change volume of notes independently so I could just pull harder on some notes by creating more resistance in order to reach appropriate volume.
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Yup. And another thing… this is also used for note bending on the 8X (harder press of the keys). Want to do that on an EVO, it has to be programmed in to the master palm switch… effectively making that feature harder to access and eliminating the ability to turn on/off the orchestra section on that registration, a compromise that doesn’t exist on the 8X.
For me, personally, X8 looks more attractive even if it has deeper keyboard even if I don't plan to use it for other instruments than accordion. It looks very strange for me when someone plays accordion that sounds like piano or violin. Seems that I'm still not mature enough to understand that, but it would be very convenient and cheaper to have both free base and musette register on the same accordion and also don't need to maintain it. Also don't need to have monitors to hear a click of the backing track as I could place a speaker next to me without feedback. I would take Bugari with shallower keyboard and more natural internal speakers sound if it would have bellows resistance based on amount of notes pressed and register selected.
For me, I like the wide variety of instruments on the 8X. I like to fit the instrument to the tune. For example, when I use a bright piano sound on "The Entertainer" for the 1973 movie "The Sting". Or, when I play old hymns in church -- nothing fits better for me than the Organ tones. Also, for me, the only thing that fits "Oh Suzanna" or "Polly Wolly Doodle" is the Banjo tone. When I play these for a group, everyone starts singing, without me even asking for them to join in a sing-a-long.
I know looks are very much a personal thing, but no, the looks of a Bugari Evo are definitely far nicer in real life than any 8X... even more if you get the "Luxury" model. Our own EMAN (Ed) has it and I've looked and played it. It is very pretty! The thing about the EVO is that it costs so much more and you get less. So for people that don't really care about maximizing their digital accordion experience and have the disposable income, it's fine. If you want more sonic features for less money and a more conventional look, this is basically what the 8X is.
People tout the keyboard of the EVO, that its a lot better and closer to an acoustic, and IT IS. It is easy to play fast and clean... but that does not mean that you cannot play fast on the keyboard of a V-accordion. People like Joe Natoli and Cory Pesaturo are standing proof of that. For myself I can get very close, I'd say 95% of the same speeds to how I could play on my Morino or now, Beltuna... so that is close enough that it makes little difference to me. It just takes getting used to, that's all.
I think me being a player of electronic accordions from the early 80's, I am very much used to hearing sounds other than acoustic accordions coming from my speakers. I've ALWAYS loved the idea and sounds of intermixed instruments from the moment I heard my first Cordavox. The 8X is the natural evolution of the accordion for me, and is the present and future in terms of variety and maximizing musical possibilities. It is also just a LOT of fun!
Maturity has little to do with it, it is more of a knowing yourself and what you like. Some like it, so do not, there is no right or wrong in this. For example, the Free Bass on the Evo or 8X are 100% identical, and I absolutely hate using that feature on a Roland V-accordion. It gives me cramps and pains that I do not have when I play on my acoustic Free Bass instruments and it just feels so crappy and low quality. Others don't have that issue and do quite well, but this is the main reason I just never even turned on the Free Bass option on my 8X for more than maybe 10 times over the last 7 years that I have owned it.
I recently found out that a good set of mics under the grill capture the sound of the acoustic accordion perfectly with headroom to spare and capture the sound of the backing track that I am playing over speakers that are about 5-6 feet away and loud enough that I can clearly and easily hear them to make recordings just like in my last video, yet just barely can be heard in the accordion tracks only if you really turn them up to maybe 400-500% higher than needed. In other words in terms of the final product, there is NO detrimental effect and cannot be heard unless you want them to be heard in the separate tracks of the (in my case) BK-7m.
It all comes down to ONE and only ONE thing... what makes YOU happy? For me I am blessed and have both and they both put smiles on my face
Alan Sharkis
Prolific poster
There are some really accomplished accordionists who have EVOs. Joe Natoli and Michael Bridge come to mind. it seems to me, however, that those two, at least, have other accordions, both acoustic and digital, and don’t play their EVOs exclusively. I’ve seen videos of Cory Pesaturo playing one, but I don’t know if he owns it. Then again, Cory’s videos show him playing anything from the newest model Concerto to the AxE-Cord (and I know he owns an AxE-Cord) but he always seems to go back to that ‘skinned’ FR-7x with the lights behind the grill.
Could it be, then, that some people will like and use an EVO, or any other accordion for that matter, for some situations but not all? Are there, for example, situations in which velocity-sensitivity isn’t necessary, for example, a program using only accordion sounds? (I often ask rhetorical questions for effect
)
Could it be, then, that some people will like and use an EVO, or any other accordion for that matter, for some situations but not all? Are there, for example, situations in which velocity-sensitivity isn’t necessary, for example, a program using only accordion sounds? (I often ask rhetorical questions for effect
)Ventura
Been here for ages!
all the people who would like a Cordovox/Accorgan/Syncordion/Sanovox/Duovox
as their PRIMARY accordion please raise your hand and pony up $7 or $8 Grand
AND as Modern improvements go
your Bellows will control the Volume of your Organ sound
( just like a real Hammond... NOT )
AND
you will not be able to change the timbre OR attack of your
Piano/Guitar/Vibes/Synth/Voco/Strings/Trumpet
with the speed or force with which you attack the keys
AND
you still don't have any real actual reeds with air passing through them
( so maybe not even as good as a 3 reed tone chambered BoatAnka )
as i said before, who in their right mind..
sorry.. not sorry
i never knew the EVO design was that primitive regarding the keyboard until
that post a few days ago.. still can't believe the thing ever reached the marketplace
like that.. even a Chinese Hohner actually has real reeds and a natural feeling
bellows and even the cheapest keytar on the market at any given time has
Velocity sensitive keys.. hell even $59 dollar Kids toy piano's have velocity keys
there are very few major categories of instrument sounds that are appropriate
or preferred for use with a basic on/off keyboard attack except for the Organ,
with the harpsicord being a legitimate but distand second of limited use..
and it is absolutely unnatural to play an Organ-Accordion and not keep the
bellows absolutely STILL when you want to just hear the Organ and to Squeeze
ONLY when you want to hear the reeds (or a combination of the two together)
am i missing something here
have any of you dual discipline guys ever added a Bellows to your Hammond
to increase it's realism or dynamics ?
or is the EVO the electronic emulation of a $200 Persian harmonium ?
pardon me, but i need to channel Ralph Striker for a second...
SHEESH !
that forces the EVO totally into the category of luxury item for personal use
Professional accordion players have to compete with Professional Piano
and other Keyboard players for Gigs and there is no way you can compete
without being able to play legit and authentic sounding Piano/Guitar/etc.
(excepting those who choose a legit and dedicated pure Acoustic path obviously)
no audience is gonna accept primitive and unrealistic sound/tone here in the
21st Century.. the overall ear is far to sophisticated..
hell BOSE even sells a ton of Bedroom Clock radios and Kitchen under the cabinet
sound systems and people pay 10X the price for Bose (so do some of you)
so i think that is proof enough of the sophisticated average modern audio palette
i can't believe Bugari ever sold even one
literally EVERY SINGLE simple MIDI ACCORDION can outplay an EVO acoustically,
as well as match it note for note and sound for sound using any $1000 Sound engine..
i just don't get it.. you couldn't give me one.. i still HAVE a Cordovox that works
(and a matching leslie) but i'm not gonna Gig with that either and it can still blow
an EVO right off the stage no doubt
as their PRIMARY accordion please raise your hand and pony up $7 or $8 Grand
AND as Modern improvements go
your Bellows will control the Volume of your Organ sound
( just like a real Hammond... NOT )
AND
you will not be able to change the timbre OR attack of your
Piano/Guitar/Vibes/Synth/Voco/Strings/Trumpet
with the speed or force with which you attack the keys
AND
you still don't have any real actual reeds with air passing through them
( so maybe not even as good as a 3 reed tone chambered BoatAnka )
as i said before, who in their right mind..
sorry.. not sorry
i never knew the EVO design was that primitive regarding the keyboard until
that post a few days ago.. still can't believe the thing ever reached the marketplace
like that.. even a Chinese Hohner actually has real reeds and a natural feeling
bellows and even the cheapest keytar on the market at any given time has
Velocity sensitive keys.. hell even $59 dollar Kids toy piano's have velocity keys
there are very few major categories of instrument sounds that are appropriate
or preferred for use with a basic on/off keyboard attack except for the Organ,
with the harpsicord being a legitimate but distand second of limited use..
and it is absolutely unnatural to play an Organ-Accordion and not keep the
bellows absolutely STILL when you want to just hear the Organ and to Squeeze
ONLY when you want to hear the reeds (or a combination of the two together)
am i missing something here
have any of you dual discipline guys ever added a Bellows to your Hammond
to increase it's realism or dynamics ?
or is the EVO the electronic emulation of a $200 Persian harmonium ?
pardon me, but i need to channel Ralph Striker for a second...
SHEESH !
that forces the EVO totally into the category of luxury item for personal use
Professional accordion players have to compete with Professional Piano
and other Keyboard players for Gigs and there is no way you can compete
without being able to play legit and authentic sounding Piano/Guitar/etc.
(excepting those who choose a legit and dedicated pure Acoustic path obviously)
no audience is gonna accept primitive and unrealistic sound/tone here in the
21st Century.. the overall ear is far to sophisticated..
hell BOSE even sells a ton of Bedroom Clock radios and Kitchen under the cabinet
sound systems and people pay 10X the price for Bose (so do some of you)
so i think that is proof enough of the sophisticated average modern audio palette
i can't believe Bugari ever sold even one
literally EVERY SINGLE simple MIDI ACCORDION can outplay an EVO acoustically,
as well as match it note for note and sound for sound using any $1000 Sound engine..
i just don't get it.. you couldn't give me one.. i still HAVE a Cordovox that works
(and a matching leslie) but i'm not gonna Gig with that either and it can still blow
an EVO right off the stage no doubt
Alan Sharkis
Prolific poster
I tried an EvO, as I’ve weitten before, against an 8x. The sound that the EVO produced, set for set and register for register, was more natural and less electronic. Whether that was the result of the wooden case versus the plastic one, as some have suggested, or something to do with the size and shape of the space containing the speakers as others have suggested, can be debated but not by me. Petosa made a big deal in their demo video of saying that the EVO was recorded using quality external mikes, and as far as I can tell, that had to be done. If you record an EVO through its jacks it would sound like an 8x.
EVOs come in a variety of finishes and colors, at ever-increasing prices.once again, I can imagine one guy saying that a particular finish and color are beautiful and another guy looking at the same EVO saying it’s horrible.
I didn’t buy one. To me, the list of things it didn’t do vs. the 8x on which it was based made me wonder why anyone would.
But I guess it has its fans, and they may very well have bought it for its un-amplified sound, its looks, the feel of its wooden keyboard (without the extra key depth necessary for velocity-sensitivity) and because they already owned a Roland and had money to burn, AND were willing to put up with its limitations.
EVOs come in a variety of finishes and colors, at ever-increasing prices.once again, I can imagine one guy saying that a particular finish and color are beautiful and another guy looking at the same EVO saying it’s horrible.
I didn’t buy one. To me, the list of things it didn’t do vs. the 8x on which it was based made me wonder why anyone would.
But I guess it has its fans, and they may very well have bought it for its un-amplified sound, its looks, the feel of its wooden keyboard (without the extra key depth necessary for velocity-sensitivity) and because they already owned a Roland and had money to burn, AND were willing to put up with its limitations.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
is the bass side also just on-off ? cuz someone was just asking for upright bass
on the EVO
on the EVO
Cory had that Evo for sale with 2 days of him receiving it. As far as I know from what he told the people at the seminar that I was at he plays nothing but a 7X and has 5+ of them that he sends out to be maintained so he always has one that works.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
well, he has a heckuva nice Sonola too..
He has a lot more than 1 acoustic too. I was there when he bought that Sonola.
