96Bass
Well-known member
Nice demonstration of bassoon in the chamber, outside the chamber, and combined.
Double Bassoon Jazz Accordion
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Great sound. Very interesting to see what need to be done to piano accordions to achieve such sound. On a bayan you just play MM 8vb and you have a reed in the chamber and a reed outside and you can go down to E3, one note lower than that Petosa can do with LL. Poor PA players...
A bayan won't give you MMM at A2 or C♯8 (or actually anywhere) like my instrument does: the CBA family has more options than just bayans. Let me check: in my "Tanti anni prima" video I used MMM from E3 (would have guessed even lower) to C8, pretty much the second half of the piece. It doesn't sound half as sacrilegious as it sounds. The point being, that the CBA family may provide you with lots of non-standard options. But the option it doesn't provide you with when making use of the really extreme range extensions is to play while standing up; that three-reed LLM Art van Damme instrument will be a lot friendlier to that suggestion than your AKKO bayan. But because those range options are non-standard to a good degree (and in their actual sound), you'll be back to arranging stuff (or more modestly: laying it out) specifically for your individual instrument with CBA. As our friend with the newly acquired LLM instrument will no doubt be as well.
Right. The bayan goes down to E2 on MM.I think you are getting a little mixed up with your octaves there @debra. The low note on the PA (LL) will be F2 not F3 and the low note on the bayan (MM) will be E2 not E3.
Poor debra
Sure? This needs 62 sounding notes, and the Hohner catalog specifies the Artiste X S as having 92 buttons, which at 5 rows means 56 sounding notes (the Morino Artiste has the A2 only in the fourth row). So I'd expect your highest note in MMM to be E7. The keyboard range in my instrument is actually the same as with the 4-reed Artiste VI D (which has a piccolo reed needing to wrap around in the last octave). The Artiste VI N and VI S don't just drop the déclassement but also reduce the treble buttons from 102 to 87. They probably don't need to wrap the piccolo reed in the last octave. Of course my instrument does not need to wrap the piccolo reed either since it doesn't have one.
Yes. CBA means variety more so than PA. "Full-size" can mean a whole lot.
The Artiste has C#8 in the H (piccolo) register. No accordion I know of has C#8 in MMM or even just MM. The highest note in MMM is indeed E7.
Ever accordion is a compromise. Personally I very rarely use MMM and do almost everything with just MM (and many other registers not using the third M). My bayan does not go up to C#8 because the bayan piccolo reeds do not go that high. Russian bayan piccolo reeds are considerably smaller than Italian piccolo reeds for the same note, and because of that they stop (and wrap to a lower octave) before reaching C#8.
The bayan does go lower in MM (one M in cassotto and one outside) than the Petosa, It cannot do everything the Petosa does of course because It cannot play LLMM. (The Artiste cannot do that either.)
Well, mine has in MMM. And the Artiste VID has a range of A2–C♯8 in MM with C system and a range of Bâ™2–D8 in B system (apparently Venanzio Morino did not believe in dead buttons even in the fourth button row). I know of no regular LMMM or LMMMH models that go to C♯8 in MMM, but in the world of accordions it is hard to state something with confidence.
At any rate bayans (and their Western marketing namesakes) start their vast 64-note range too low in order to get as high in M.
Well, I don't have cassotto, and my MM actually uses the M+ and M- reeds, so it is stronger (and simpler) than MMM. That means that for me, the "novelty tremolo" that comes out for some idiomatic passages is MM rather than MMM.
Indeed, every accordion is a compromise.
Sure. You can double up on the left hand with a melody bass, but that's not the same. In my instrument, it is different enough that I sometimes play stuff with the left hand in ensemble play. Adds a definitely different register to the choices otherwise limited by LMMM.
Walker
🪗
I used my Morino in its classic chrome-plated Wurlitzer musicbox optics on special request for the burial of a rabbit (don't ask) and got no complaints. Indeed, it appears to have made a lasting impression.
Are you sure? I just looked at a picture of the Artiste VI D and it has 102 buttons, which gives you 62 notes (with A2 only on the 4rd row).
Unless I lost my math abilities completely, when you start at A2 the keyboard should go up to Bb7. Granted, that's higher than any bayan (which only goes up to G7 in the M register, but it still isn't C#8.
Note that C#8 is the highest reed in production, so if an accordion does go up to D8 (as you say the B-system Artiste VID supposedly does) then you better hope you never need to replace the D8 reed because they are not being made any more (if they ever were(.
That is right. The range in M of a bayan is from E2 to G7.
I do find this a very usable range and I would already be happy with 61 notes G2 to G7.
For me the 41 note range of a standard PA (including the Petosa) is too limited. I manage to get by on a 46 note CBA (E3 to C7# in M) but what I would be happier with is 53 notes (C3 to E7 in M).
Well, I did not want to let you feel alone for not knowing the range of your own instrument... I misremembered that last chord I played in the Tanti Anni Prima. You are of course right, and my instrument (as well as the C system Artiste VID) stops at Bâ™7, with the B system Artiste VID reaching up to B7.
Good thing that I was wrong then.
Well, that C3 gives you cello range in the L reed. That opens a whole lot of solo literature, as well as orchestral literature not specific to accordion.
It also gives you viola range in the M reeds.
96Bass
Well-known member
Petosa offers a piano keyboard Bayan with 47 note range D# - C#. This model includes quint reeds on the treble side.
Their Cathedral piano accordion is also available with a 47 note keyboard.
petosa.com
Their Cathedral piano accordion is also available with a 47 note keyboard.
Cathedral Piano Bayan
A concert instrument in a class of its own… The Cathedral Piano Bayan is an unequaled handcrafted instrument, limited in production with many custom features. Incorporating petosa's ultra-superior Converter Free-Bass mechanics for durability and performance. A uniquely-tuned 5th piccolo 'quint'...
petosa.com
96Bass
Well-known member
Petosa also offers a 61/120 button key Bayan
petosa.com
Cathedral Bayan SV Grand Concert
For the distinguished professional Classical Concert artist… petosa first re-defined it’s Concert Series Converter Free-Bass with the addition of the Cathedral Bayan SV. Now petosa has advanced the SV model with new features and sound. The Cathedral Bayan SV Grand Concert begins with a...
petosa.com
The first piano accordion with more than a 45 note range I saw! Personally I'd probably steal 3 notes from the top in order to have more on the bottom. But I don't know whether this would be more popular.Petosa offers a piano keyboard Bayan with 47 note range D# - C#. This model includes quint reeds on the treble side.
Their Cathedral piano accordion is also available with a 47 note keyboard.
Cathedral Piano Bayan
A concert instrument in a class of its own… The Cathedral Piano Bayan is an unequaled handcrafted instrument, limited in production with many custom features. Incorporating petosa's ultra-superior Converter Free-Bass mechanics for durability and performance. A uniquely-tuned 5th piccolo 'quint'...
Also a nice instrument, but not larger in range than a "standard" Russian bayan (which has three more notes at the bottom). It is super light compared to other instruments of that size (my own ancient one is about 14.5kg and has only a few notes more range, but it is of the kind of build that Paul would not trust to survive a minor fall).Petosa also offers a 61/120 button key Bayan
Cathedral Bayan SV Grand Concert
For the distinguished professional Classical Concert artist… petosa first re-defined it’s Concert Series Converter Free-Bass with the addition of the Cathedral Bayan SV. Now petosa has advanced the SV model with new features and sound. The Cathedral Bayan SV Grand Concert begins with a...
This is my favourite posting of 2023! More please in 2024.
OK, I think even the most die hard PA players agree their ratio of range to size of instrument sucks compared to the CBA. But having said that, is there seriously anyone musical that is limited in their sonic expression because of the number of notes their accordion has!?
If you paraphrase that as "does anybody actually use the extended range they have available for musical purposes", the answer with me definitely is "yes". Indeed, if I want my accordion to pitch in for a piccolo flute (like in a military march), being able to use MMM in that range rather than a flat H makes for a much livelier and carrying tone. In a similar vein, being able to have MMM for a good part of the cello range gives significant ensemble possibilities: MMM on my instrument is "folksy" in the central range, but the low and high ranges have distinct possibilities.
The 88-note range deemed essential for piano literature did not start out that way. It just grew out there because the notes were still useful for expressive purposes and thus ended up being built and used. Personally I'd like more notes at the bottom of my instrument range. But I do make use of what I get on the top, admittedly more as chord toppers than melody notes.
Also if you scale back from large instruments to small instruments: a 26-key instrument is severely limiting. The 38 notes of a similar-size 72 bass CBA get you a lot further.
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