Double tone chamber

[Walker]

. However, what I can also see is that in (almost) all accordions the first reed bank on the first reed block in cassotto (viewed from the outside) benefits clearly less from the cassotto than the reed banks deeper inside. I could always hear it (on a PA it's the black keys on the single M register) but the data proves it. This flaw explains why for instance jazz players often just play using a single L reed (and not the single M reed) and prefer an accordion that goes up to at least the high C, because what they really want is a nicer sounding M reed so they use L instead. On my button accordions I tend to do the same, because there too the M is not as nice as the L.

Very interesting... I find on my new Scandalli the M voice is softer and mellower than the L voice. It was the same story with my old Gola and my vintage Super VI too...

 

[tcabot]

I find on my new Scandalli the M voice is softer and mellower than the L voice. It was the same story with my old Gola and my vintage Super VI too...

You're just boasting & showing off the nice accordions you've had, aren't you?

 

[debra]

Very interesting... I find on my new Scandalli the M voice is softer and mellower than the L voice. It was the same story with my old Gola and my vintage Super VI too...

When I stated "(almost)" all I was aware that the vintage Scandalli Super VI and the Gola are two exceptions. And to this date I still don't know how they managed to give it that different behavior...

 

[Tom]

Thanks!!
Appreciate your reply.
The seniors are so grateful and appreciative, it just awes and overwhelms me. I’m so grateful for them.
You’re right. Its is very difficult to only have three!

If you are super fortunate, you will find someone who used to, or still plays. At least you will get a story, even if you can’t get a band going. Have fun!

 

[Elizabeth]

If you are super fortunate, you will find someone who used to, or still plays. At least you will get a story, even if you can’t get a band going. Have fun!

I do got a band going! Right now its two, me and percussion.
I enjoy the stories, witticism and knowledge Always shared here. Although i do not always understand.
Its a lot harder picking out an accordion now that 18 years ago. Because now i know a wee bit more.

 

[John M]

Sorry to be slightly off topic but re Leslie/Rotary simulators has anyone tried one just via a microphone out from accordion (no midi)...thanks

The Neo Instruments Micro Vent 122 is a rotary speaker simulator, specifically simulating the classic Leslie 122 that has a rotary horn with a compression driver (for frequencies above 800 Hz) and a downward facing (into a rotating baffle)15" bass speaker (for frequencies below 800 Hz).

I don't understand your question about trying a Leslie/Rotary simulator via a microphone out from accordion. Maybe this description of how a Micro Vent 122 works will help. The "Vent" has an input jack and output jack that takes a standard 1/4" TS cable plug. It also requires a +9V DC supply (less than 1 amp). From the output Jack, the "Vent" requires an external speaker (I use a Bose L1 Pro 8). It also requires a signal (nominal 1V) from the accordion to the input jack (I use my 8X). There is no microphone used -- the rotary sound does not come out of the accordion speakers.

A feature I like about the "Vent" is there is a "distance" setting (0-100) that changes the rotary effect. At "0" (it simulates being right at the Leslie cabinet) and the sound is 100% amplitude modulation. At "100" (far from the Leslie cabinet) you get the full "Doppler Effect" that is frequency modulation. This is the setting I like best.

I hope this helps --John

 

[OuijaBoard]

Why does one need or want double tone chamber? What kind of music, what kind of audience, makes that added expense and weight worth it? Does an audience of seniors at the nursing homes even notice?
And tuning! If you can only have three accordions, and you already have two nice musette ones..

No one "needs" tone chambers, or the weight and expense that goes with them. Many serious classical and jazz players "want" them because they are seeking a more refined, warmer, softer, drier timbre as devoid of overtones as they can achieve. Only you can decide if you "want" that sonic characteristic. There are many examples on youtube. But if you do not, you are not shorting yourself or any listener cohort regardless of their demographic. You are also not shorting yourself or anyone else if you choose a 3-voice or 2-voice accordion rather than one with more reed banks and switches.

Personally I don't give a damn about tone chambers and find them comically fetishized and overrated. I might feel differently if I played classical, but while I listen to plenty of it along with many other genres, I have zero interest in playing it on the accordion. For the types of music I do on accordion--tango, Balkan, klezmer, Paris musette, Irish/Shetland/Cape Breton, Scandi, . . . I actually dislike the cassoto timbre and find it de-natured, and denuded-sounding.

I'm not the be-all end-all by a very long shot indeed, but I've played at art openings, weddings, a Jewish senior center, a 3-shows-per-weekend 8-week run of a play set in pre-WII Nazi Germany, gazillions of pub sessions, and other settings. And nobody felt deprived or even noticed or cared whether I had tone chambers. One thing I've noticed is that there are people who hate the sound of accordions, and they hate accordions whether or not tone chambers are in the mix. Now, no one needs or wants a horrible-sounding accordion. I've heard my share, but they weren't horrid because they lacked tone chambers.

 

[Elizabeth]

Well thank you so much! You have thoughts and opinions with lots of experience in the accordion world to support your thoughts and opinions. I appreciate your reply. I bet you have things to say about tunings and Reeds. I am also wondering about a high reed or just three middle reeds along with the low. And how much mussette I want. Too much mussette makes me feel like I might fall off a cliff or get epilepsy.
I guess one needs a lot of accordions!

 

[OuijaBoard]

I do have opinions about tunings, and a bit about reeds, but they are purely personal and subjective! LMMM versus LMMH, for example--to me one is as credible a choice as the other, that's just personal taste which you prefer or would use more. I do like musette, but don't like wetter than a nice light "violin" or "Americano" tremolo of about 8.5---10 cents. Again, totally subjective!

Certainly one "wants" many accordions, and one just might have, er, a smidge more than three.

 

[Elizabeth]

Yes, it is totally subjective. When I try to listen to them in person, I just seem to think they’re all beautiful. And then I took one home and wow too much mussette. When I listen to samples online, it’s just too hard to tell. I get too distracted by the tune that they are playing.
Yes, one was feeling guilty about so many accordions, and was trying to whittle down the stable. and I don’t know if that includes the diatonic button box, which has been sitting by its lonesome self for a couple years….shame.

 

[Dingo40]

. When I try to listen to them in person, I just seem to think they’re all beautiful. And then I took one home and wow too much mussette.

Some dealers in used accordions will rent the accordion for a reasonable amount by the week. If you decide to buy it, the rental will be credited to the price, if's not, you haven't lost much but you've had an opportunity to check out your potential choice thoroughly!

 

[saundersbp]

Personally I don't give a damn about tone chambers and find them comically fetishized and overrated.

I agree about the cassotto sound sometimes having an excessive and irrational commitment as the 'be all'. I play mostly classical music and sometimes find its good to change the sound to suit the character of the music. To my ears the cassotto sound has a slightly mournful quality which suits music that is detailed or introspective, but something more extrovert and exuberant can benefit from an 8 cassotto reed +8 non-cassotto played together straight tuned which blends a strong fundamental sound from the cassotto and then something more colourful from the other reed. I've noticed this sort of tone is something top players seems to use for certain ebullient classical movements.

Some dealers in used accordions will rent the accordion for a reasonable amount by the week

Better still borrow an accordion from your friends! I've just been lent a mega posh 14kg Bugari monster for a week which is great fun as a comparison of sound and feel to what I usually play. I just need to remember to bend my knees when I pick it up and not get too attached to it!

 

[tcabot]

14kg Bugari monster

My Excelsior is just under 20kg...



Another reason while I'm much more inclined to pick up the sub-5kg bandonion when I want to bash out a tune.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Yes, it is totally subjective. When I try to listen to them in person, I just seem to think they’re all beautiful. And then I took one home and wow too much mussette. When I listen to samples online, it’s just too hard to tell. I get too distracted by the tune that they are playing.
Yes, one was feeling guilty about so many accordions, and was trying to whittle down the stable. and I don’t know if that includes the diatonic button box, which has been sitting by its lonesome self for a couple years….shame.

I started on PA and was able to get on due to 6 or 7 years of classical piano as a kid and teenager. But detoured after a while into a long journey down the rabbit hole of bisonoric button accordion and concertina. However, after drinking that Kool-Aid a long while I realized a few years ago that I simply find CBA and PA more fun and expressively satisfying. And contrary to the party line of the diatonic folk gatekeepers, I think unisonorics can have just as much "lift," swing, lilt, etcetera, if the player is sensitive to the particular idiom. I do prefer small CBAs and PAs for folk music due to the subtle sound difference from the increased and easy bellows movement, but that's another subjective one.

 

[Elizabeth]

I agree about the cassotto sound sometimes having an excessive and irrational commitment as the 'be all'. I play mostly classical music and sometimes find its good to change the sound to suit the character of the music. To my ears the cassotto sound has a slightly mournful quality which suits music that is detailed or introspective, but something more extrovert and exuberant can benefit from an 8 cassotto reed +8 non-cassotto played together straight tuned which blends a strong fundamental sound from the cassotto and then something more colourful from the other reed. I've noticed this sort of tone is something top players seems to use for certain ebullient classical movements.



Better still borrow an accordion from your friends! I've just been lent a mega posh 14kg Bugari monster for a week which is great fun as a comparison of sound and feel to what I usually play. I just need to remember to bend my knees when I pick it up and not get too attached to it!

That would be nice, but here in the boonies, theres only one friend that has an accordion, but shes decided to start playing again so i cant borrow it, and its not that different from what i already have. the nearest piano store has a policy of renting but not to people 3,000 miles away…
Ive going there in a few days so i can stop in and play with the accordions again.

 

[Elizabeth]

Some dealers in used accordions will rent the accordion for a reasonable amount by the week. If you decide to buy it, the rental will be credited to the price, if's not, you haven't lost much but you've had an opportunity to check out your potential choice thoroughly!

Yes, good idea.

 

[Elizabeth]

No one "needs" tone chambers, or the weight and expense that goes with them. Many serious classical and jazz players "want" them because they are seeking a more refined, warmer, softer, drier timbre as devoid of overtones as they can achieve. Only you can decide if you "want" that sonic characteristic. There are many examples on youtube. But if you do not, you are not shorting yourself or any listener cohort regardless of their demographic. You are also not shorting yourself or anyone else if you choose a 3-voice or 2-voice accordion rather than one with more reed banks and switches.

Personally I don't give a damn about tone chambers and find them comically fetishized and overrated. I might feel differently if I played classical, but while I listen to plenty of it along with many other genres, I have zero interest in playing it on the accordion. For the types of music I do on accordion--tango, Balkan, klezmer, Paris musette, Irish/Shetland/Cape Breton, Scandi, . . . I actually dislike the cassoto timbre and find it de-natured, and denuded-sounding.

I'm not the be-all end-all by a very long shot indeed, but I've played at art openings, weddings, a Jewish senior center, a 3-shows-per-weekend 8-week run of a play set in pre-WII Nazi Germany, gazillions of pub sessions, and other settings. And nobody felt deprived or even noticed or cared whether I had tone chambers. One thing I've noticed is that there are people who hate the sound of accordions, and they hate accordions whether or not tone chambers are in the mix. Now, no one needs or wants a horrible-sounding accordion. I've heard my share, but they weren't horrid because they lacked tone chambers.

What kind of tuning do you think goes best, or good, with scandinavian?

Warmer, softer, drier; thats all beautiful when i hear it. But the brightness and clarity of non chambered, tor example, my zero zette b16 (i think it is) is joyful and pleasing and satisfying.
I think i want it all; or simply i cannot make up my mind, which causes me to seriously wonder whats wrong with me.

 

[Dingo40]

What kind of tuning do you think goes best, or good, with scandinavian?

There's a huge amount of Scandinavian accordion music (PA, CBA & DBA), across many genres ( from folk to jazz to Latin etc) and they are very good at it!.
Overall, I'd say a fairly "dry " tuning would
be best!
Just one teensy example;

Alf is playing his refurbished vintage "finto" CBA.
Another tiny sample:

A final taste::

 

[Elizabeth]

Ooh thanks for all this! And along with your suggestion of fairly dry tuning, would cassotto or non cassotto be best with that?

 

[Elizabeth]

Ooh thanks for all this! And along with your suggestion of fairly dry tuning, would cassotto or non cassotto be best with that?

And another puzzlement is does light musette and or “fairly” dry tuning come in lmmm or lmmh?